Forums The Vibe Chat My awakening

This topic contains 506 replies, has 26 voices, and was last updated by Avatar 12BarBlues May 27, 2013 at 12:03 am.

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  • #1270593
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    The Psyentist
    Participant

    Somebody has probably already asked this but does a miracle have to have a positive outcome?

    If not Jeffrey Dahmer experienced a few miracles. He was pulled over by a traffic cop with the remains of his first victim in a bin liner on the back seat of his car. When questioned he said it was garbage he was taking to the landfill site and allowed to continue. Had the officer caught a whiff of the stench of death and looked inside the bin liner that day 18 lives could have been saved.

    Also one of his victims managed to escape only for Dahmer to convince the police the hysterical boy was his drunken lover and they returned him to Dahmer. This was both improbable and enexpected thus making it a miracle???

    #1270594
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    The Psyentist
    Participant

    @chrispydelic 538966 wrote:

    Of course we won’t convince each other either way as our beliefs are pretty unshakable but it’s nice to hear others point of view and for us to listen to theirs. Gives us a chance to be much better informed and to understand why people feel the way they do.

    I know this isn’t about us trying to convert each other either way but it seems little is being said that hasn’t already been discussed, that’s all. I kind of wish my brain didn’t operate on such a logical level so I could believe or at least understand why people believe when all the evidence is stacked against them. The fact that people are capable of blocking out and denying science I just find bewildering and in no way increases my understanding.

    #1270268
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    DaftFader
    Participant

    @lshak 538918 wrote:

    Well, I would say its common that people return to life, have you asked what he saw when he died?

    Some report a white like, others report nothingness, I’d definitely further re-evaluate my life/character if it was nothing or unmemorable. Wake up call for a second chance coming back from the dead..

    He can’t remember it due to the massive amount of alcohol he in took. Apparently you release massive amounts of DMT when you die though, so he was most likely tripping his arse off lol, weather or not it’s to pass onto the other other side is debatable, but no one will really know till they die properly, so it’s pointless debating it whilst still alive imo.

    #1270391
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    Lshak
    Participant

    @The Psyentist 538953 wrote:

    Is nobody else getting bored of this debate? Seems we’re just going in circles. Bottom line is religious people seem to be the most rigid thinkers but accuse the none believers of being narrow minded. We ain’t going to convince them and they’re not going to convince us so let’s just move on.

    I am open-minded, enough to accept religion. You tell me I’m narrow minded and I say the same to you, you need to be shown the way by a higher being, I’f you have ever taken dmt and broken through how can you not believe in a god? Have you broken through?

    #1270392
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    Lshak
    Participant

    @chrispydelic 538963 wrote:

    The miracles that you are speaking of are not miracles or coincidence, they are the result of millions of years of evolution. Eyes started out as photosensitive cells and all they were able to distinguish were two frequencies of light (red and blue) in simple creatures that needed to know when to come closer to the surface of the water. Look around the insect and animal kingdom and you will see many examples of highly complex eye structures very different from our own. Also there are subterranean creatures that live in total darkness that have evolved away their eyes over millions of years but have highly developed senses of touch and electromagnetism to move around and locate food.

    Also we are by no means perfect. We are capable of problems arising from how we have evolved over time. People need to have wisdom teeth removed (because our jaw has got progressively smaller. We get appendicitis from the inflammation of an organ that over time we have ceased to need. There are autoimmune diseases where our own immune system can attack us causing all sorts of problems. We have rogue cells that decide to divide for no reason and become cancerous.

    The long and short of it is that life is incredibly complex but you have to think of it in context. We haven’t just been dumped here on the planet exactly as we are, fully formed human beings with eyes and ears etc, it has taken an incredible length of time to become as complicated as we are.

    Plus we are not in any way the only intelligent beings on the planet. Some primates are able to learn sign language and have intelligent conversations with us even though they have no vocal chords (yet).

    MARK MY WORDS….!!!

    Goats will be the first (except parrots to talk) YouTube

    Lol

    #1270321
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    barrettone
    Participant

    @lshak 539001 wrote:

    I am open-minded, enough to accept religion. You tell me I’m narrow minded and I say the same to you, you need to be shown the way by a higher being, I’f you have ever taken dmt and broken through how can you not believe in a god? Have you broken through?

    I’ve broken through on DMT. What’s supposed to happen that is meant to make me believe? Psychedelics are a subjective experience after all.

    #1270393
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    Lshak
    Participant

    @The Psyentist 538967 wrote:

    Somebody has probably already asked this but does a miracle have to have a positive outcome?

    If not Jeffrey Dahmer experienced a few miracles. He was pulled over by a traffic cop with the remains of his first victim in a bin liner on the back seat of his car. When questioned he said it was garbage he was taking to the landfill site and allowed to continue. Had the officer caught a whiff of the stench of death and looked inside the bin liner that day 18 lives could have been saved.

    Also one of his victims managed to escape only for Dahmer to convince the police the hysterical boy was his drunken lover and they returned him to Dahmer. This was both improbable and enexpected thus making it a miracle???

    It possibly is a miracle, how do you know them 18 people wernt going to grow up to do terrible things or just one of them be the next hitler, or George bush, etc

    #1270322
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    barrettone
    Participant

    @lshak 539004 wrote:

    It possibly is a miracle, how do you know them 18 people wernt going to grow up to do terrible things or just one of them be the next hitler, or George bush, etc

    How do you know they weren’t grow up to be the next Ghandi or Albert Einstein? You can’t just shrug off a death by saying “oh well maybe they would turn out evil.”

    #1270394
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    Lshak
    Participant

    @barrettone 539005 wrote:

    How do you know they weren’t grow up to be the next Ghandi or Albert Einstein? You can’t just shrug off a death by saying “oh well maybe they would turn out evil.”

    I’m not shrugging it off I’m just saying a possibility, why dwell in the past and think about it when it happened, and it was gods plan they all died surely for a reason, which we don’t know of.

    Its happened so no point looking back, you have to move forward otherwise get out the road

    #1270323
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    barrettone
    Participant

    @lshak 539011 wrote:

    I’m not shrugging it off I’m just saying a possibility, why dwell in the past and think about it when it happened, and it was gods plan they all died surely for a reason, which we don’t know of.

    Its happened so no point looking back, you have to move forward otherwise get out the road

    Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it….for it is required for graduation.

    But seriously the “don’t look at the past” view forgets that we’re meant to learn from it to apply to the present to secure the future.

    #1270269
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    DaftFader
    Participant

    @chrispydelic 538964 wrote:

    I’m sure if you were to speak to some bad people, gang members for example that have been in drive-by shootings or whatever you would find that they have survived situations that you would consider to be miraculous (under your definition). These people may have committed murder, theft and all sorts of other crimes. The things that you consider to be miraculous are in no way confined only to “good” people.

    Look at 50 cent for example, he got shot nine times in a row (including in the face and the chest) when he was involved with selling crack and survived!

    #1270270
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    DaftFader
    Participant

    @lshak 539004 wrote:

    It possibly is a miracle, how do you know them 18 people wernt going to grow up to do terrible things or just one of them be the next hitler, or George bush, etc

    How did Hitler and George bush slip through the net?

    #1270595
    Avatar
    The Psyentist
    Participant

    @lshak 539004 wrote:

    It possibly is a miracle, how do you know them 18 people wernt going to grow up to do terrible things or just one of them be the next hitler, or George bush, etc

    I’ve never tried DMT mate so I cant comment on that. With regards to the above remark do some research on Jeffrey Dahmer and then come back and tell me if anybody deserves such a fate as to fall victim to such attacks.

    #1270596
    Avatar
    The Psyentist
    Participant

    @lshak 539011 wrote:

    no point looking back, you have to move forward otherwise get out the road

    Are you not doing the precise opposite of this by following the guidance of an ancient book?

    #1270532
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    Izbeckistan
    Participant

    @The Psyentist 539058 wrote:

    Are you not doing the precise opposite of this by following the guidance of an ancient book?

    Good point actually!

    #1270597
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    The Psyentist
    Participant

    @mr207 538907 wrote:

    People aren’t born to be bad, a lot are born good, it’s just the situation that turns them bad.

    Some people simply are born evil actually. One of the most infamous serial killers of all time Ted Bundy was believed to be born a sociopath. Yeah he didn’t have the greatest childhood but he certainly didn’t suffer any of the trauma that it takes to turn most into a cold blooded killer. Even by the age of three he was displaying disturbing signs of what he would become.

    Admittedly serial killers are an unhealthy interest of mine, I could give more examples of people who seem to have been born evil if you wish.

    #1270598
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    The Psyentist
    Participant

    @barrettone 539005 wrote:

    How do you know they weren’t grow up to be the next Ghandi or Albert Einstein? You can’t just shrug off a death by saying “oh well maybe they would turn out evil.”

    They’d have to be Ghandi because I’m sure all his victims were black lol.

    #1270458
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    Pat McDonald
    Participant

    OK. Put it this way… if you don’t think anything matters, if you want to be careless about everything, have no values, no BELIEF in anything you do having any real effect – something like nihilism although I’m not sure that’s quite the same thing – what chance is it that you are going to be motivated to do anything of value?

    If religion does have a benefit (not necessarily accurate in fact, but in practical results) it’s in encouraging people to care. About what they do.

    Now, why do atheists feel the need for the argument? Because they see only the evil things that have resulted from religion.

    But atheists don’t actually have a moral code to offer (yet). Hence their own frustration… but the ball is in the non-believers court to do anything like as pro-active and useful as religion can be, and has been.

    So don’t argue. Just do. Much healthier all around. πŸ™‚

    #1270649
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    MR207
    Participant

    @Pat McDonald 539138 wrote:

    OK. Put it this way… if you don’t think anything matters, if you want to be careless about everything, have no values, no BELIEF in anything you do having any real effect – something like nihilism although I’m not sure that’s quite the same thing – what chance is it that you are going to be motivated to do anything of value?

    If religion does have a benefit (not necessarily accurate in fact, but in practical results) it’s in encouraging people to care. About what they do.

    Now, why do atheists feel the need for the argument? Because they see only the evil things that have resulted from religion.

    But atheists don’t actually have a moral code to offer (yet). Hence their own frustration… but the ball is in the non-believers court to do anything like as pro-active and useful as religion can be, and has been.

    So don’t argue. Just do. Much healthier all around. πŸ™‚

    Wow Pat, great words, exactly what I was thinking.

    This debate is never ending. You believe what you believe. I’m not asking anyone to change their beliefs.. I’m backing up my opinion, which is what everyone should do. I have strong faith and reasoning in this that maybe only I will ever understand, and that’s all that matters. God hasn’t come into your lives because you won’t let him, but I respect everyone’s opinions. Let’s just all get along, everyone here is awesomeeee πŸ™‚

    #1270599
    Avatar
    The Psyentist
    Participant

    @Pat McDonald 539138 wrote:

    Now, why do atheists feel the need for the argument? Because they see only the evil things that have resulted from religion.

    But atheists don’t actually have a moral code to offer (yet). Hence their own frustration… but the ball is in the non-believers court to do anything like as pro-active and useful as religion can be, and has been.

    So don’t argue. Just do. Much healthier all around. πŸ™‚

    I correct someone when I believe them to be incorrect, in all aspects. Is that not the thing to do? Regardless of what the subject is if you think someone is following false information you provide what you believe to be the correct information. I don’t know what this frustration is you speak of and as for having no moral code, what a load of shite. If I held no morals or values I’d be a friendless murderous thieving paedophilic racist rapist. And I’m not a paedophile so there.

    #1270459
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    Pat McDonald
    Participant

    @The Psyentist 539142 wrote:

    I correct someone when I believe them to be incorrect, in all aspects.

    Aha! “When I BELIEVE them to be incorrect”. πŸ™‚

    See. You are a believer! Get the idea now?

    There’s a lot of people who interpret “believer” as “Muslim”. Some are even narrower minded than than and say you have to be particular brand of Islam – Wahabi, Salafist, etc.

    A “Muslim” means “the surrended”. Those who have surrendered to an infinite Most High and accept that their actions have consequences.

    #1270324
    Avatar
    barrettone
    Participant

    @Pat McDonald 539138 wrote:

    OK. Put it this way… if you don’t think anything matters, if you want to be careless about everything, have no values, no BELIEF in anything you do having any real effect – something like nihilism although I’m not sure that’s quite the same thing – what chance is it that you are going to be motivated to do anything of value?

    If religion does have a benefit (not necessarily accurate in fact, but in practical results) it’s in encouraging people to care. About what they do.

    Now, why do atheists feel the need for the argument? Because they see only the evil things that have resulted from religion.

    But atheists don’t actually have a moral code to offer (yet). Hence their own frustration… but the ball is in the non-believers court to do anything like as pro-active and useful as religion can be, and has been.

    So don’t argue. Just do. Much healthier all around. πŸ™‚

    Plenty of atheist or agnostic thinkers have offered moral codes and philosophies. Kant, Sartre, and Nietzsche among them. Although I think the problem here is lumping “atheists” into one cohesive group. The only thing all atheists will have in common is lack of belief in a deity, much like the only thing that all “people who do not watch tennis” have in common is…not watching tennis. You don’t necessarily need religion to have morals. The moral code of the Bible says slavery is ok and you can sell your daughter. Clearly I would reckon that most people nowadays would not be cool with that. Individuals will have different perceptions of what is right and wrong and it can be based on religion or it can come from somewhere else.

    Personally I have the argument because it’s nice to know what the other side thinks. It’s never good to be stuck in an echo chamber.

    #1270600
    Avatar
    The Psyentist
    Participant

    @Pat McDonald 539143 wrote:

    Aha! “When I BELIEVE them to be incorrect”. πŸ™‚

    See. You are a believer! Get the idea now?

    There’s a lot of people who interpret “believer” as “Muslim”. Some are even narrower minded than than and say you have to be particular brand of Islam – Wahabi, Salafist, etc.

    A “Muslim” means “the surrended”. Those who have surrendered to an infinite Most High and accept that their actions have consequences.

    Tbh you’ve lost me a bit there Pat. There’s a lot of people who interpret “believer” as “Muslim”? Are you talking about EDL or something? I’m using (as I think we all are) the term believer as an abbreviation of religious believer. Or predominantly in this case Islamic (Lshak) and Christian (MR207). Maybe they’ve mentioned and I’ve not seen but I don’t know what specific branches of each faith they follow. Are you a man of faith yourself?

    #1270496
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    Chrispydelic
    Participant
    #1270601
    Avatar
    The Psyentist
    Participant
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