Forums The Vibe Chat My awakening

This topic contains 506 replies, has 26 voices, and was last updated by Avatar 12BarBlues May 27, 2013 at 12:03 am.

Viewing 25 posts - 251 through 275 (of 507 total)
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  • #1270220
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    Anonymous

    @mr207 538213 wrote:

    Mhmm. You call a complete and sudden disappearence of cancer fucking luck. There is seriously something wrong with that. Winning the lottery and having cancer, then suddenly not having it are two COMPLETELY different situations, I don’t even know how you can compare the two.

    They are comparable because both are possible but rare.

    #1270584
    Avatar
    The Psyentist
    Participant

    @mr207 538211 wrote:

    Oh really?? She lived didn’t she? And when people feel a force pick them up and feel hands on them, what do you think that is? Do you think they’re crazy and need to be locked up?

    Well to quote myself and avoid giving you a direct answer, as I’m sure it would only be disregarded anyway….

    Where do you draw the line between insanity and religious belief?

    #1270585
    Avatar
    The Psyentist
    Participant

    If you believe in God and you’re so certain of heaven and hell then surely you also believe that the British royal family are all lizards. There’s no evidence for it but quite a few troubled minds think it is so for some reason,

    #1270427
    Avatar
    Savvydravvy
    Participant

    @mr207 538211 wrote:

    Oh really?? She lived didn’t she? And when people feel a force pick them up and feel hands on them, what do you think that is? Do you think they’re crazy and need to be locked up?

    Not that they are crazy,but rather that the mind is very powerful.

    #1270586
    Avatar
    The Psyentist
    Participant

    #1270221
    Avatar
    Anonymous

    @The Psyentist 538223 wrote:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=uY1jSWy4Eck

    No no no

    This one

    #1270428
    Avatar
    Savvydravvy
    Participant

    Worth watching the religion one even just for the last minute and a half!

    #1270222
    Avatar
    Anonymous

    @savvydravvy 538227 wrote:

    Worth watching the religion one even just for the last minute and a half!

    and about 2 mins in ish he is talking about “miracles”.

    #1270429
    Avatar
    Savvydravvy
    Participant

    @photographthesun 538229 wrote:

    and about 2 mins in ish he is talking about “miracles”.

    Yeah hes kinda hinting at the self-centered nature of believing that miracles happen to you specifically

    #1270587
    Avatar
    The Psyentist
    Participant

    @photographthesun 538225 wrote:

    No no no

    This one

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET1-_PeExMs

    Meh, its all good. I’ve developed a slight obsession with him since the other night lol.

    Praise be to magic Woody Allen zombie superhero komodo dragon photographthesun. You’ve enlightened me with the power of a suggestive avatar

    #1270521
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    Izbeckistan
    Participant

    If god performs miricles and helps people over come cancer, why does he not help kids in sweat shops, the sex trade and dying from starvation?

    #1270723
    Avatar
    Deez
    Participant

    @izbeckistan 538236 wrote:

    If god performs miricles and helps people over come cancer, why does he not help kids in sweat shops, the sex trade and dying from starvation?

    Because the Lord works in mysterious ways everyone knows that!!!

    Jokes only middle class white people have the power to receive Gods miracles

    #1270480
    Avatar
    Chrispydelic
    Participant

    @mr207 538211 wrote:

    Oh really?? She lived didn’t she? And when people feel a force pick them up and feel hands on them, what do you think that is? Do you think they’re crazy and need to be locked up?

    Firstly regarding your other examples or miracles you have to understand how odds work, just because the odds of something occurring a certain way are infinitesimal that doesn’t mean that it isn’t going to go down that way (in fact it makes it all the more likely than on certain occasions this will be the outcome). If you were to throw a billion pound coins into the air an infinite amount of times you will eventually see all possible combinations of the coins being arranged including times where they all landed heads up and every other combination.

    People being killed by lightning strikes or being hit by meteors are billions to one odds but it still occasionally happens. Is this also an example of a miracle? Or can a miracle only be such if the unlikely event is perceived as being a good outcome?

    Secondly, I have died. I used to have chronic asthma as a kid and was constantly in and out of hospital. Respiratory arrest was common for me and once full cardiac arrest. I have felt the forces that you are talking about both on those occasions AND while taking certain psychedelics and dissociatives. These feelings can also be produced when certain areas of the brain are stimulated by electromagnetism. So these feelings are fully explained and understood by science. Ask many of the DMT users on the forum and they will tell you that they have felt the presence of benign beings or spoken to deities and otherworldly entities. It doesn’t mean that those experiences were real.

    Once again, the brain is a hugely complicated organ they we have only a limited understanding of. It is capable of incredible things. Males have been able to lactate for example when the Mother has died during childbirth. Hypno gastric band surgery is hugely successful in treating obesity with no actual surgery being necessary. The list of examples goes on and on.

    Also going back to your example that I have quoted. Why would Got intervene (when we’re lead to believe that he doesn’t interfere in Earthly matters) in saving someones life, only for them to die at a later date? (we’re all going to die). What would be the point in that? Is it that this person is now going to go on to find the cure for cancer or save someone else’s life? And if so, what would be the point there? Why would God choose to save some people and let others die in the most appalling ways? (tortured to death by madmen, burned alive etc). Doesn’t really seem fair does it?

    #1270223
    Avatar
    Anonymous

    I think its important that we recognise we all have a little faith. We have faith that the science we believe in is correct in its methodology and thus truly factual observation. We have faith that people far more intelligent than us take the time to review peoples research. We have faith that money and capitalism whilst funding this research does not induce undetected bias to often. We have faith that when we watch Horison or read something in the media that whoever wrote it has been methodical and accurate.

    Religious faith, whilst clearly not the same and hard to reason as logical is also a faith based choice.

    I think most would agree in the west that there are more reasons to have faith in the scientific system than a religious one. But we could all (especially me) do with perhaps showing a little more humility and a little more recognition of all the faults/possible failings of our own beliefs. It is easy to be critical of things like religion but far harder to be critical of our own beliefs.

    Just a thought, I know I am normally militant atheist man but felt like this other perspective was worth consideration. Apologies if its not carefully worded I just got a delivery of 500 bang snapper things (you throw them on the floor and they go bang!!!) so I need to go play!

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]84208[/ATTACH]

    500, £1.95 including postage!

    #1270481
    Avatar
    Chrispydelic
    Participant

    @photographthesun 538240 wrote:

    I just got a delivery of 500 bang snapper things (you throw them on the floor and they go bang!!!) so I need to go play!

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]84208[/ATTACH]

    500, £1.95 including postage!

    And you Sir are awesome!

    #1270354
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    Lshak
    Participant

    @DeezNuts 537867 wrote:

    But Science is based on factual evidence rather then blind faith and it is constantly changing and evolving as new evidence is presented. Religion is based on outdated ways of thinking and teachings that don’t evolve.

    Why is that sad? I still would have had a fucking kick ass time and ensured that many others had too, that is good enough for me.

    Eventually there will be hundreds of trillions of people in heaven… how big is it?

    I’d rather live a life in poverty and an eternity in heaven than a kick ass time on earth and an eternity in hell, suffering and in torment. I dot like saying these kind of things because I shouldn’t just anyone, but just think about it, wisely.

    #1270301
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    barrettone
    Participant

    @lshak 538267 wrote:

    I’d rather live a life in poverty and an eternity in heaven than a kick ass time on earth and an eternity in hell, suffering and in torment. I dot like saying these kind of things because I shouldn’t just anyone, but just think about it, wisely.

    Riddle me this though. How do you know your religion is right? What about the Hindus, the Shinto, the Taoists, Buddhists, Sikhs, Zoroastrians, Jainists, etc? They’re all as firmly set in their beliefs as you are. What authority have you to say that they are wrong?

    #1270239
    Avatar
    General Lighting
    Moderator

    @photographthesun 538240 wrote:

    Just a thought, I know I am normally militant atheist man but felt like this other perspective was worth consideration. Apologies if its not carefully worded I just got a delivery of 500 bang snapper things (you throw them on the floor and they go bang!!!) so I need to go play!

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]84208[/ATTACH]

    500, £1.95 including postage!

    good thing you are not strongly religious, or the feds would be knocking your door :laugh_at:

    #1270224
    Avatar
    Anonymous

    @lshak 538267 wrote:

    I’d rather live a life in poverty and an eternity in heaven than a kick ass time on earth and an eternity in hell, suffering and in torment. I dot like saying these kind of things because I shouldn’t just anyone, but just think about it, wisely.

    And you are more sure that heaven exists than it doesnt? And you have given thought as to why you think this and you are sure as you can be that its not just external influences rather than your own choice?

    If you answer as I think you will then go for it even if your wrong you wont be happy living a life where you think you might go to hell. So this path, even if you are wrong about your faith, is still the logical choice.

    As long as you have felt this way for a while I would not be rash.

    #1270225
    Avatar
    Anonymous

    @General Lighting 538270 wrote:

    good thing you are not strongly religious, or the feds would be knocking your door :laugh_at:

    why? that went right over my head

    #1270443
    Avatar
    Pat McDonald
    Participant

    @izbeckistan 538236 wrote:

    If god performs miricles and helps people over come cancer, why does he not help kids in sweat shops, the sex trade and dying from starvation?

    Why is there injustice if there is a Most High?

    Because people are very often selfish and cause injustice with their greed and insistence on domination. If you can offer an alternative to kids in sweat shops, sexual exploitation and starvation, are you not helping to reduce the problems and in your own way, performing a miracle?

    Show me an Atheist Charity that does these things… actually, there are a few. But a helluva lot of charity is based on religious organisations.

    Why throw out the baby with the bath water over disagreement in belief systems?

    #1270302
    Avatar
    barrettone
    Participant

    @Pat McDonald 538273 wrote:

    Why is there injustice if there is a Most High?

    Because people are very often selfish and cause injustice with their greed and insistence on domination. If you can offer an alternative to kids in sweat shops, sexual exploitation and starvation, are you not helping to reduce the problems and in your own way, performing a miracle?

    Show me an Atheist Charity that does these things… actually, there are a few. But a helluva lot of charity is based on religious organisations.

    Why throw out the baby with the bath water over disagreement in belief systems?

    There are plenty of secular organisations that promote fairness, improvement in society, and better standard of living for people. UNICEF, Amnesty International, the Red Cross, Doctors without Borders, the ACLU, and Oxfam to name a few. Many religions teach very good things and certainly there have been a lot of religious figures who taught really good things. It’s not so much a case of throwing out the baby with the bathwater but separating the wheat from the chaff, no? To be honest I don’t really mind what someone believes but if they’re going to force their views on others, such as banning gay marriage, that’s when I take issue with it. I especially find it strange when Christians do that, as intolerance is not very Christ-like.

    #1270226
    Avatar
    Anonymous

    @Pat McDonald 538273 wrote:

    Why is there injustice if there is a Most High?

    Because people are very often selfish and cause injustice with their greed and insistence on domination.

    But if god made everything and is all knowing firstly he created the concept of greed and suffering and he gave it to us. And if he is all knowing he must have seen the suffering his design would create, so why not create something better?

    Its also hard to argue religion has done more harm than good given all the wars current and past.

    #1270355
    Avatar
    Lshak
    Participant

    @photographthesun 538176 wrote:

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]84207[/ATTACH]

    The greatest thing the devil has ever done is to make people that he does not exist, therefore god would not exist to those poor minds also

    #1270482
    Avatar
    Chrispydelic
    Participant

    @lshak 538267 wrote:

    I’d rather live a life in poverty and an eternity in heaven than a kick ass time on earth and an eternity in hell, suffering and in torment. I dot like saying these kind of things because I shouldn’t just anyone, but just think about it, wisely.

    This is the other problem I have with the big three religions. Believe that this is right or suffer eternal damnation in hell. Doesn’t really seem fair does it? Seeing as how we have only geography or the beliefs of our parents or peers to steer us in the right direction.

    For example: If I were borne in a part of the world where say Islam is the order of they day and because the majority of people surrounding me believe in the same thing I am bound to feel that this is they way that is correct and so I would be pleased in the knowledge that as long as I stick to the rules, I am guaranteed a place in heaven.

    Now apply this to each of the big three. Christianity, Islam and judaism. They are all convinced that they are correct and presumably are sure in their knowledge that they are not going to hell. But they can’t all be correct.

    I would just like to add that I am not an atheist and not exactly an agnostic.

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