@DJCliffy 333403 wrote:

I dunno man, If someone cut my cock off i doubt i’d enjoy it.

ah but you dont have a my-cock-being-eaten fetish do you :weee:..
my ex used to love pain of a sexual nature and i understood it to some extent.. I doubt any fetish exists where you dont actually enjoy it

@Iacchus 333387 wrote:

Fair enough.. I agree there are a lot of grey areas in life that require a personal decision but I still think there is fundamental good and fundamental evil in the universe.

For example causing another person suffering merely for your own entertainment (ie bullying, raping, torturing animals or even people) is my definition of a fundamental universal evil. Surely nobody can argue that is a matter of opinion?

You gotta ask yourself what drove these people to do the horrible things they did. Were they evil or were they misinformed? Are the african kids who are forced to do attrocious things by their captors evil? When they grow up to think that their behaviour is correct and justified, are they evil then? Are their captors evil for instilling such evil thoughts into the yout’ or are they merely the product of a failed society?

China stopped being a feudal society when one leader wiped out all of their enemies and achieved nationwide peace. Was he a demon for all the killing/raping/torture that he initiated or was he an angel for the thousands of years of peace that he initiated?

@TEK Tonic 333520 wrote:

You gotta ask yourself what drove these people to do the horrible things they did. Were they evil or were they misinformed? Are the african kids who are forced to do attrocious things by their captors evil? When they grow up to think that their behaviour is correct and justified, are they evil then? Are their captors evil for instilling such evil thoughts into the yout’ or are they merely the product of a failed society?

China stopped being a feudal society when one leader wiped out all of their enemies and achieved nationwide peace. Was he a demon for all the killing/raping/torture that he initiated or was he an angel for the thousands of years of peace that he initiated?

Can’t comment really on african children being forced to do things, but generally there is always a choice, even if it is a hard choice. People have a responsibility to think about their actions and their orders, and if they don’t then they dont deserve the label of sentient beings in my book.
When it comes to things like torture the ends never justify the means. No amount of lives saved in an excuse for torturing someone else. If you can think up one scenario where it is justified to torture someone then anyone can justify anything. If you believe otherwise you are part of the problem with humanity.

Don’t get me wrong – I’m not trying to justify torture, I just think people generally behave how they see fit based on their own ideas of what is right and what is wrong. These ideas could only have come from experience and some of those experiences will have been horrific and others will have been misinterpreted.

I don’t think people are evil, I think they sometimes act and think in horrible ways but they are only acting and thinking the best way they know how.

“Forgive them because they know not what they do”
(And I have a right chip on my shoulder about organised religion!!)

@TEK Tonic 333779 wrote:

Don’t get me wrong – I’m not trying to justify torture, I just think people generally behave how they see fit based on their own ideas of what is right and what is wrong. These ideas could only have come from experience and some of those experiences will have been horrific and others will have been misinterpreted.

I don’t think people are evil, I think they sometimes act and think in horrible ways but they are only acting and thinking the best way they know how.

“Forgive them because they know not what they do”
(And I have a right chip on my shoulder about organised religion!!)

Yeah I can understand why people do things if that is the way they were brought up, peer pressure and norms of society etc, however that does not excuse people of their actions. Otherwise again Nazi concentration camp workers etc can use the ‘everyone was doing it’ argument.

I’d say if someone does something like torturing someone because they were ordered to but did not like doing it, they just are just immoral cowards for not fighting the order. If they actualy enjoy it they are evil.

Not trying to justify it but…

Apparently ‘most’ people will actually administer a fatal electric shock to somebody if they are told to do so by someone with enough authority:

Milgram experiment – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I would say that somebody who did so despite their own moral objections is weak-willed and cowardly but only human, if they enjoyed it (and apparently spite is not uncommon in humans either Are humans cruel to be kind? – life – 16 May 2009 – New Scientist) then they are probably more fucked up than most, have a warped sense of what is fun… but are still only human, not evil (IMHO).

@joshd96320 333807 wrote:

when you say warped sense of fun

as i said, fun is also just an emotion…

perhaps you perceive it as warped because society has laid down what is sane and what is not, to keep you within the boundaries.

its all just emotion.. people are made happy in all manner of ways

some have explored the forbidden realms formed by society and found new ways of fun that suit them

Like doing SnM on each other… or hunting foxes with dogs who tear the fox appart before the humans dip their fingers in the blood and smear it on their childrens’ faces… or making some fuckin’ noise and pissing the neighbours off, shitting in their garden and leaving a skipload of rubbish lying around for them to pick up? 😉

Exactly =)

so no one deserves to be tortured even if they are a complete evil cunt who wants to fire a nuclear warhead at a country?

i see you have your mind made up but to be honest i think the cunt would be needed to be tortured to stop it from happening

@DJCliffy 333868 wrote:

I agree. If someone had planted a nuke in a major city and the only way you could find out was by torturing that person i’d do it or give the order for them to be. Then again it would have to be a last and final resort. People being tortured for no reason or for ‘fun’ is not cool at all. But then if someone is going to cause major destruction on your countrymen you ain’t got no choice.

What if you gave the order and the best man for the job was somebody who quite enjoys torturing people? Is it OK for him to enjoy his work now that he is going to save the world with his nasty ways?

@p0lygon-Window 333818 wrote:

so no one deserves to be tortured even if they are a complete evil cunt who wants to fire a nuclear warhead at a country?

i see you have your mind made up but to be honest i think the cunt would be needed to be tortured to stop it from happening

absolutely, if you want to torture him you are just as bad as he is and you are both equally part of the problem with humanity