he makes good points.

I think most people on here don’t believe in god. those that do either preach and then run away when we start debate, or they keep it to themselves.

i don’t think he’s making good points. he is masturbating with his limited grasp of concepts. infact his whinny american/loid grossman accent made me feel sick.
“now then boys and girls , consider this…..” :yakk::yakk::yakk::yakk:
i would rather listen to a preist than that smarmy twat.
I believe in God. To me it is a very logical conclusion.

This quote from Einstein is good

“I’m not an atheist. I don’t think I can call myself a pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn’t know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws.”

@ellie 335700 wrote:

but i don’t see that quote as an argument for god?? am i wrong?

I think he’s getting at that we obviously don’t know everything, and so we shouldn’t rule out the existence of a god. Like coming to a result without having all the gures. A concept I do kind of agree with to be honest.

However…There are things we don’t know about our existence, and I don’t think many things should be ruled out. I do not understand though, how some people have made such a specific choice in choosing there own possible answer to the equasition. I have tried to debate this before with the other bible basher that came on here, and I do respect people’s beliefs, but that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t question it. And quite frankly I have come to my own small conclusion on the point, that no religious person who has left school will ever change their beliefs.

To point out again, which I don’t know quite how to emphasise, WHY (DESPITE SO MUCH COUNTER EVIDENCE) DO PEOPLE BELIEVE IN SUCH SPECIFIC RELIGION BLINDLY?!?

Early morning acid ramble :love:

@ellie 335700 wrote:

but i don’t see that quote as an argument for god?? am i wrong?

depends if you define god as a big beard in the sky that constantly meddles in our affairs, or have a more flexible definition covering any intelligence involved in any way in our universes existence.

for example if our universe turns out to be a simulated universe (more likely than not if you believe in an infinite multiverse) then you could consider the civilisation running the simulation to be god. hindus consider the collective consciousness of all living things to be god etc.. anti god attitudes are generally more specifically anti christian god attitudes.

@ellie 335715 wrote:

but i read the quote as

the child knows nothing … he thinks it is mysterious but after time he will learn who wrote the books etc.

we dont know what created the universe … we call it god, but in time we will learn.

or something like that.

am i reading it wrong?

surely that quote means some sort of god is implied by the universe but when/if we finally understand the nature of god it is going to be far removed from our current idea of what god is (ie the beard in the sky)

i guess how far you are willing to stretch the definition of god is a personal matter. personally i think all the mainstream religions are wrong, but there is something out there I would tag as God, although my definition would be considered heresy by christians etc.

you’d rather listen to a preist because you are religious?

Interested to hear from dougmelv again really.

this is exactly how i feel….

no. but i know people who do and they are good people. i respect others beliefs. just like if i believed wearing aftershave, putting blonde streaks through my hair and wearing expensive clothes would make me happy i wouldn’t expect a lecture me about vanity, pride, materialism or the things that they think to be importaint. i wouldn’t want them to mock me either. if i was a good person i would expect them to have tollerance for my misguided beliefs.
In defense of people who believe in a specific religious doctorine i would say at least they believe in something with substance. lots of people today form their beliefs , often unwittingly and in quite an adhoc manner, from the world they experience around them. The messages we are exposed to from birth from our parents, freinds, schools, TV soaps, magazines, TV news, newspapers, books, internet, adverts, corporations, employers, work mates, police, polititions etc..etc.., are all full of errors.
For example watching internet porn could lead you to the belief that women like to be treated like that, or lead women to the belief that they want to be treated like that. Or just reading a newspaper article could leave you with several false beliefs. Just looking at a bill board. A conversation in the pub. something you work out in your head.
We are inundated with masses of corrupt information every day. too much to even be fully concious of. when we try to make sense of it we use our beliefs which we have formed through a lifetime of being bomdarded with misinformation. Probably most of what each of us believes to be true is false.
So, some people critisise others who follow religion for being unquestioning and gullable and believing in nonsense. I would say those people probably believe in even more nonsense, are even easier led and that although they think they are critical of the world around them, they probably don’t really question what they do or think that much.

@dougmelv 335943 wrote:

no. but i know people who do and they are good people. i respect others beliefs. just like if i believed wearing aftershave, putting blonde streaks through my hair and wearing expensive clothes would make me happy i wouldn’t expect a lecture me about vanity, pride, materialism or the things that they think to be importaint. i wouldn’t want them to mock me either. if i was a good person i would expect them to have tollerance for my misguided beliefs.
In defense of people who believe in a specific religious doctorine i would say at least they believe in something with substance. lots of people today form their beliefs , often unwittingly and in quite an adhoc manner, from the world they experience around them. The messages we are exposed to from birth from our parents, freinds, schools, TV soaps, magazines, TV news, newspapers, books, internet, adverts, corporations, employers, work mates, police, polititions etc..etc.., are all full of errors.
For example watching internet porn could lead you to the belief that women like to be treated like that, or lead women to the belief that they want to be treated like that. Or just reading a newspaper article could leave you with several false beliefs. Just looking at a bill board. A conversation in the pub. something you work out in your head.
We are inundated with masses of corrupt information every day. too much to even be fully concious of. when we try to make sense of it we use our beliefs which we have formed through a lifetime of being bomdarded with misinformation. Probably most of what each of us believes to be true is false.
So, some people critisise others who follow religion for being unquestioning and gullable and believing in nonsense. I would say those people probably believe in even more nonsense, are even easier led and that although they think they are critical of the world around them, they probably don’t really question what they do or think that much.

Agree people shouldnt form their beliefs on the default input from society and the media, but religious texts are just as bad as the modern media. If not worse because they were written at a time when homophobia was socially acceptable and women were second class citizens.

Most people dont really have beliefs as such, they just exist and fit into society as best they can. Thats fair enough but if you really want to consider yourself enlightened and on a quest for self improvement you should study science, religion (with a pinch of salt and an appreciation of the context when they were written), philosophy, and a DECENT newspaper.
This should all be accompinated by lots of logic and musing and general thinking about the nature of reality, society, and the purpose of the universe etc. Beliefs should always be changing, never static, always updated from new information..

well thats my philosopy anyway.. each to their own of course