Forums The Vibe Chat Visit from the cops after Essex rave!

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  • #1039661
    Avatarstax
    Participant

    my mate recieved a visit from the ob at work today in regards to the essex rave. he sez they were trying to gain evidence of exactly what happened.

    i had read about this on SJ but fort it was the usual bullshit you read on there.

    i was lucky because my car was no where near the site(they are contacting peeps thru car regs taken at the site).

    need to speak to him to gain some more info.

    any one else had any ‘visits’

    #1093068
    Avatarstax
    Participant

    spoke to my mate and the police are basicaly taking dna samples as during the riot ob were spat at had blood thrown over them and also other bodily fluids hurled in their general direction. so i guess they are tring to trace the offenders down. they are returning next week to take a statement.

    they also said he could have copys of ariel pics of the event ./ that would be cool

    #1093052
    AvatarGeneral Lighting
    Moderator

    surely blood would also be a result of cops hitting people with batons?

    its also legally questionable getting DNA samples from people who have not been arrested (not to mention expensive) – this means it is really being treated as a major incident

    Although you’re mate hasn’t got anything to fear if he wasn’t near the frontline the cops wouldn’t be giving away photos either if they didn’t think they were in the wrong by going in hard – cops aren’t gonna stitch themselves up!

    Whatever peoples personal views on what happened in Essex, a lot of the “anti-rave lobby” (i.e farmers, locals) still feels that more “robust” action should be taken to stop raves.

    There is increasing anger in Norfolk over how the smaller Norfolk Constabulary seems to let them still happen whilst Suffolk, Essex, Beds and Herts have clamped down and stopped a lot of events from happening.

    Cambs (which was allegedly once more lenient) has also clamped down and they now send cops from other force areas to help out as the airwave comms equipment can work across forces a lot easier than the old hand-held UHF radios – and can also allow nimbys to speak directly to a police officer on their radio to pass on intelligence (it is also a mobile phone)

    I expect cops are also unhappy with crews from SE England moving East to link up with the “Norfolk” crowd due to SE England areas being increasingly locked down.

    It does seem that what the cops are doing is working out the pros and cons of going in heavy – OK they will get complaints and it is costly in financial terms and damage to community relations (I bet a lot of youths in Essex don’t have a lot of support for the cops or law now!) but if it keeps raves out of certain areas and minimises complaints from landowners and locals they will think it is worth it…

    I think everyone in the East of England needs to be very careful at the moment.

    #1093074
    Avatarbob leponge
    Participant

    remember you are under no obligation to provide them with your DNA its been happening a lot but they cant do jack

    basically heyr doin it because at times they were gettin fullon violence directed at them and they havnt succesfully prosecuted anyone for any major offences so they are pissed

    and the fact that they spent 4million(or a 1/4 of their annual budget whicherver way you want to look at it) on shutting down a party

    was it really worth it?

    #1093070
    AvatarSound-Guy
    Participant
    stikabee wrote:
    .and the fact that they spent 4million(or a 1/4 of their annual budget whicherver way you want to look at it) on shutting down a party

    was it really worth it?

    Err….. NO!

    #1093061
    Avatarvinyl vera
    Participant

    can some pls clarify if the laws have changed on party/rave going?

    i have heard that they have been changed and that it is now an offence to BE AT A RAVE…ie coppers can arrest you for just being there?

    #1093053
    AvatarGeneral Lighting
    Moderator
    vinyl vera wrote:
    can some pls clarify if the laws have changed on party/rave going?

    i have heard that they have been changed and that it is now an offence to BE AT A RAVE…ie coppers can arrest you for just being there?

    AFAIK they still need to first give you a clear direction to leave the area under the Criminal Justice Act and only then after that can anyone be arrested if they refuse to move on…

    #1093067
    Avatarnoname
    Participant

    Yep – you need to have been given clear direction to leave the land before they can move to arresting… (They have to give notice under section 63 of the CJA 1994)

    See here for the relevant act section (the now very famous section 63)

    The only update is the 2003 act, the relevant section being here. It’s explanatory notes say:

    Quote:
    Section 58: Raves

    125. Section 58 amends section 63 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 (the 1994 Act) to extend it to cover raves where 20 or more persons are present. At present, section 63 of the 1994 Act only applies to raves where 100 or more persons are present.
    126. Subsection (3) extends section 63 of the 1994 Act to cover raves in buildings, if those attending the rave are trespassing.
    127. Subsection (6) makes it an offence for a person to make preparations for or attend a rave within 24 hours of being given a direction under section 63(2) of the 1994 Act to leave land where the person was attending or preparing for another rave. The offence is summary and the maximum penalty is 3 months imprisonment or a level 4 fine (or both).

    changing the numbers from 100 to 20, and closing the “open air” loophole…

    And for a sensible, non legalese interpretation of the whole business go here

    The long and short of it is that you have to be given notice to leave the land, and remove any vehicles and equipment as soon as reasonably practical, and you are not to return to the land for at least 7 days (either of these result in arrest under section 63)

    Same applies to seizure of equipment. From the 1994 act:

    Quote:
    (4) If a direction has been given under section 63 and a constable reasonably suspects that any person to whom the direction applies has, without reasonable excuse—

    • (a) failed to remove any vehicle or sound equipment on the land which appears to the constable to belong to him or to be in his possession or under his control; or
    • (b) entered the land as a trespasser with a vehicle or sound equipment within the period of 7 days beginning with the day on which the direction was given,

    the constable may seize and remove that vehicle or sound equipment.

    #1093062
    Avatarvinyl vera
    Participant

    i understand all of the above…just!

    what about if its on land where you do have permission?

    does all of the above still apply?

    #1093063
    Avatargloballoon
    Participant

    if a sec 63 is invoked permission doesn’t make any difference

    if you have land owners persmission, you might want to apply for a temporary event notice

    #1093054
    AvatarGeneral Lighting
    Moderator

    for a permitted event, its harder for cops to use the CJA (although it could happen) but they can more easily stop it under various other forms of legislation if there was a real threat to public safety or a serious incident (such as a shooting/stabbing) happened, and Environmental Health can still curtail it if noise levels were excessive.

    However an event which merely has “permission” from the landowner and not a license (other than a truly private party) still leaves the organisers (and landowner!) at risk of prosecution for licensing violations. And even a licensed event can be stopped due to a serious incident occuring.

    there are also new laws planned which would allow a 48 hour closure merely for repeated events at the same location that cause “alarm or distress” (i.e. enough nimbys whinging about it).

    Bear in mind also most forces now have a CPS lawyer on standby at the end of a mobile phone or airwave radio so they can get legal advice (including the potental use of obscure and archaic laws from the clampdowns on fairs/festivals centuries ago) very quickly indeed.

    #1093066
    AvatarmissMushed
    Participant

    my mate got a visitthis week. they hadnt been able to find her dueto her moving house, but they had a robbery, and teh police had to be called, 3 days later they turned up regarding the rave. Obviously done some digging, and her name came up. Took DNA from her too, apparantly because ofthe police brutality and said they wouldnt keep it on file:you_crazy

    #1093055
    AvatarGeneral Lighting
    Moderator

    hmm – if her house was done over then she would have presumably reported it to Norfolk Constabulary?

    However the incident happened in a different force area – that confirms that there is now a considerable amount of cross-referencing of intelligence info between forces, and the info such as car ownership details is no longer just being “stored and forgotten about” which is what used to happen…

    I’ve heard from a local source that a number of people from one of the more well-known rigs have been subjected to a lot of Police “interest” from both their local forces and Essex.

    At least one person is now serving 4 years for drugs offences as cops were able to match a lot of intelligence info…

    Also I’ve found information elsewhere (from the people who look after Farmer Giles’s interests) that implies that Suffolk police have offered extra resources to back up Norfolk and Cambs if they don’t have enough cops to stop a rave…

    #1093065
    AvatarAnonymous
    missMushed wrote:
    Took DNA from her too, apparantly because ofthe police brutality and said they wouldnt keep it on file:you_crazy

    yea, beleiving a copper is never the best route. shame they now have her essence on file.:yakk:

    #1093056
    AvatarGeneral Lighting
    Moderator

    whatever this incidents causes it was probably the largest civil disturbance in the East of England this year – from other info posted to party messageboards it is becoming clear that this is being investigated at a very high level now involving Scotland Yard (the same team of detectives that deals with terrorism, murders, cross-border internet-related crime etc) and probably the Home Office as well..

    the most that will happen is that some cops get a mild bollocking for being over-zealous; however the authorities will definitely be trying to hold people to account for the rave – the greatest annoyance seems to be that it took the cops so long to shut down the event and that the motorway needed to be closed

    OTOH I reckon if anything the cops’ powers/resources and training will be boosted – they are gonna think “if a bunch of sketchy ravers can cause this much carnage – what could happens if something like a riot (perhaps between locals and immigrant communities) kicks off in one of the Eastern towns?

    The Eastern cops have also been very quickly given some money to buy a nice shiny new comms van from BT/O2 Airwave so the airwave network doesn’t crash when there are loads of radios in the same place (in the same way that festivals often have their own mobile base stations on site).

    I saw this van in Ipswich in the summer shortly after the “riot-rave” – it is a “normal” looking transit van (apart from the huge antenna!) with no obvious police markings and blue lights concealed in the roof rack”.

    It is sometimes used when loads of cops were turning over an estate with high crime levels.

    A relative of mine lives not far away from this estate and was complaining that her TV reception was knackered most of the day by random lines intermittently going across the screen (this is a sign of digital interference from Airwave radios, which use similar frequencies to TV sets)

    #1093071
    Avatarsidney b
    Participant

    i heard from some mates that went that a copper land rover got proper fucked over
    set on fire :crazy:

    #1093057
    AvatarGeneral Lighting
    Moderator
    sidney b wrote:
    i heard from some mates that went that a copper land rover got proper fucked over
    set on fire :crazy:

    it did.

    basically what appears to have happened (after finding some info on a blog posted by a copper which gave away a few clues (didn’t think they were still allowed to blog about ongoing incidents!) was this…

    1. cops arrive in Landrover to try and close down rave
    2. cops got pelted/abused by crowd and involved in scuffles – and lost the keys to their vehicle on the ground in the scuffle
    3. they try to call for backup on their airwave radios (the ones that look like a big old mobile phone) but the digital network has crashed because there are so many coppers in one place trying all to use their radios at once (like how mobiles go all dodgy at raves and festivals)
    4. they run back to their landrover to try and call for backup on their VHF “main set” (the old analogue radio) which is inside the landrover. (This is the device with the big telephone handset that you see cops in old TV shows like “Heartbeat” talking into! ). Its often now a part digital system but can still use the old analogue networks if need be.
    5. As the plods have lost their keys, they smash the windows of their own vehicle so they can get inside and get at the radio and call for assistance. They must have been somewhat frightened and panicked to do this!
    6. Having done so (presumably when the backup arrives) they then make a further assault on the rave.
    7. Whilst they are occupied in other skirmishes, someone goes and lobs in a firework or other incendiary device in through the insecure windows of the Police vehicle..

    and the situation escalates further…..

    #1093058
    AvatarGeneral Lighting
    Moderator

    update : more people are being phoned by the Police on their mobiles..

    This begs the question though – “how did the cops get the numbers??”

    most people I know are not in the habit of willingly exchanging phone numbers with the bobbies at unlicensed parties….

    has a partyline phone been seized and its traffic investigated? I can’t see any other way the cops could have obtained the numbers… it would show they are definitely stepping up anti-rave enforcement as cops don’t normally put in that much effort (otherwise they would have already done it years ago)

    #1093075
    AvatarAvidavit
    Participant

    I had a call from the OB asking me to make a statement but i told them where to go and it was’nt Amerillo! Then about a month later a detective just turned up at my house asking for my account of what happened and to take DNA samples but i just said look i was there, i have been partaking in the illegal disco dancing scene for about 6 years now and have never seen a display like that of the bank holiday weekend. they still wanted more info but i just told them that’s all i know I went to stomp and get mulled and asked him leave as i was in a rush to get out.
    So dont get bullied into talking to them they can do nothing if you dont.
    :bounce_fl

    #1093076
    Avatarunglued
    Participant

    well its not call they shouldnt get involved why dont they go where the real trouble is in the fuckin town centres!
    Avid-i see your a cov boy, i’m from barford, not far.what was the last party you went to.

    #1093069
    Avatarpartyanimal
    Participant
    General Lighting wrote:
    it did.

    basically what appears to have happened (after finding some info on a blog posted by a copper which gave away a few clues (didn’t think they were still allowed to blog about ongoing incidents!) was this…

    1. cops arrive in Landrover to try and close down rave
    2. cops got pelted/abused by crowd and involved in scuffles – and lost the keys to their vehicle on the ground in the scuffle
    3. they try to call for backup on their airwave radios (the ones that look like a big old mobile phone) but the digital network has crashed because there are so many coppers in one place trying all to use their radios at once (like how mobiles go all dodgy at raves and festivals)
    4. they run back to their landrover to try and call for backup on their VHF “main set” (the old analogue radio) which is inside the landrover. (This is the device with the big telephone handset that you see cops in old TV shows like “Heartbeat” talking into! ). Its often now a part digital system but can still use the old analogue networks if need be.
    5. As the plods have lost their keys, they smash the windows of their own vehicle so they can get inside and get at the radio and call for assistance. They must have been somewhat frightened and panicked to do this!
    6. Having done so (presumably when the backup arrives) they then make a further assault on the rave.
    7. Whilst they are occupied in other skirmishes, someone goes and lobs in a firework or other incendiary device in through the insecure windows of the Police vehicle..

    and the situation escalates further…..

    That sounds vaguely accurate, though I didn’t see the whole thing. What they miss out is that the OB Landrover was driving towards music equipment with the intent of destroying it (which they did when they finally got close enough). The missiles were a direct result of them using heavy-handed tactics and basically inciting a riot through their aggressive behaviour.

    And the fact that one policeman lost a finger cannot justify such a ridiculous post-event investigation. What about the much more serious injuries picked up by ravers that seem to be getting ignored by the IPCC?!

    #1093059
    AvatarGeneral Lighting
    Moderator
    Quote:
    And the fact that one policeman lost a finger cannot justify such a ridiculous post-event investigation.

    I very much doubt the investigation is merely limited to the Essex rave, although that may be its main focus. The cops aren’t that stupid and know that the bulk of ravers won’t grass on their mates (even if they were throwing bottles/cans), although they may be able to get info in various ways from the sort of kids who are little scrotes really and always in trouble with the feds but willing to stitch up someone to get themselvs off the hook (the sort of scum who turn up to raves in twocced cars, start fights, vandalise stuff etc)

    From the breadth of the investigation and the fact these cops are working with other forces and going well out of force area I would say it is clearly a very large data-gathering exercise on the entire underground free party scene to find out who is involved.

    And although this may seem harsh, I doubt if much of the rest of society (i.e those with real power) actually cares whether ravers or even cops get injured at this sort of situation.

    Its accepted worldwide that cops will encounter those opponents prepared to have a fight, and that therefore a proportion of cops are injured or even killed on duty – but there are plenty others willing to take their place.

    Ravers are increasingly viewed by “non-participants” as part of the “binge/anti-social behaviour culture” of Britain and although some are prepared to accept or support them many others despise them and there are many (particularly those living in rural areas) who think the cops are in fact too lenient…

    History also counts against ravers; there was a trend of gangster-style promoters holding illegal commercial raves on private land without permission/licenses (the “acid house” parties of the late 80s) – when cops tried to close these down the crews “security” set dogs upon them and fought them.

    Then in the mid-late 90s and early 2000s East Anglia was heavily targeted for free parties; there was a big backlash from landowners because of the rubbish and shit left behind (even though crews do clear up its often still not enough)

    add to this the amount of old-skool ravers who have been through stages of problematic drug use or addiction, and passed the pain/cost on to their families and the NHS…

    in the months before the riot-rave there had already been two big raves in England in 2006 (davidstow and peterborough) which made national news and also in the case of the SW England one sparked off an environmental contamination alert due once again to the human waste…

    no-one “gets away” with parties in England.

    They are grudgingly “allowed to happen” in some areas due to lack of anti-rave enforcement resources, but cops and locals try to put more effort into locking down areas every time a “big” (i.e >500 people) rave happens, and it gets harder and harder each time…

    Although Mid/South Wales is still easier I suspect/fear that English crews will cane the area and the heddlu there will start getting heavy

    To be brutally honest i suspect the cops wanted to have this crackdown a long time ago but their resources were stretched due to the worries over terrorism and the fallout from the 2005 bombs in London….

    #1093077
    AvatarDigital-A
    Participant
    stikabee wrote:
    remember you are under no obligation to provide them with your DNA its been happening a lot but they cant do jack

    trust me my dear amigo they most certainly can and even if you did refuse, be an arse and demand they dont … youll have a court order up your bum faster than youd think was possible as GL said this is most prob being treated as a major incident

    #1093060
    AvatarGeneral Lighting
    Moderator

    AFAIK the cops do still need to arrest someone first before they can forcibly take DNA samples (the power to do this was also part of the 1994 CJA)

    someone who is just assisting with enquiries can refuse to give a sample until they are arrested – cops need sufficient evidence of a serious crime to be able to arrest people (just having been at a rave would be insufficient, or we’d all be in jail by now!)

    I think this aspect of the police action isn’t even intended to gain that much useful intelligence but is a psychological tactic to show ravers (particularly those from outside the East) that they aren’t above the law because of distance; its like when someone does crime and fucks off to a foreign country to escape – and they then find themselves being arrested by the local police and a British bobby. Also I think a lot of info gained is being shared between Eastern and SE England forces (particularly Thames Valley)

    #1093073
    AvatarAJS
    Participant

    I had to change flights in New York a couple of years ago. In any other country they wouldn’t even look at my passport but in NY they took my photo, DNA and an infra-red scan of both my hands.
    I’m sure that if they’re allowed to do it in America just coz I happened to be there that they will be allowed to do it in the UK if they suspect you were involved in anything remotely bad.

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