Forums The Vibe Chat Theres an election this year guys. now hear me out

Viewing 21 posts - 26 through 46 (of 46 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #1221933
    MisterDuck
    Participant

      @General Lighting 367919 wrote:

      Whilst this may be true in some parts of the UK, across the North Sea there are many nations where they either have full proportional representation and in some cases compulsory voting and people have openly and willingly voted for the extreme right.

      These are the same nations once lauded for being cornerstones of social democracy. the shift to the right isn’t just to do with Islam (there is tension against Eastern European immigrants, and even people from the UK coming over as drugs and sex tourists) but it coincided with the recession.

      As someone who doesn’t have white skin, who grew up in the 1970s/80s and has seen a lot of things from the frontline I think the situation is a much bleaker. I have basically seen 25 whole years of positive progress go down the pan in about 5 short years, and even though the Islamic terrorist threat has receeded due to the good work of international authorities, the economic tensions worldwide caused by migration and resource depletion still remain.

      Even so I don’t think World War III will escalate into all out atomic conflict (maybe a couple of nukes in middle eastern nations as a worst case), but I think there may be two very turbulent decades, possibly civil disturbances and subsequent major controls on life (night curfews in town etc) and you will be in your 30s or 40s before things start improving again. Not tinfoil helmet “mad max” type scenarioes but I do think stuff we take for granted like widespread drugs, parties and the late night economy will become much rarer (although not totally disappear) and life will involve much more hard work rebuilding communities and simply keeping some form of civil society in this country.

      I agree with you, that is the way things are going, which means we need to fight it.

      Personally I meant the seats in the North West and Yorkshire & Humber (my constituency :hopeless:) because the simple explanation for the BNP getting seats was ‘cos traditional Labour voters didn’t turn out and vote.

      You speak of 25 years of positive progress. Who would you say deserves credit for this? We had a Conservative government for the majority of that, and a Tory government for the rest.

      #1221944
      GiantMidget
      Participant

        @MisterDuck 367935 wrote:

        We had a Conservative government for the majority of that, and a Tory government for the rest.

        Tories are conservatives dude.

        #1221934
        MisterDuck
        Participant

          @DJCliffy 367937 wrote:

          Tories are conservatives dude.

          I know mate, I was making a reference to New Labour being Tories too.

          E.G:

          toryspotting_02.jpg

          #1221945
          GiantMidget
          Participant

            @MisterDuck 367938 wrote:

            I know mate, I was making a reference to New Labour being Tories too.

            E.G:

            toryspotting_02.jpg

            Ah right my bad man, :love:

            #1221920
            General Lighting
            Moderator

              @MisterDuck 367935 wrote:

              You speak of 25 years of positive progress. Who would you say deserves credit for this? We had a Conservative government for the majority of that, and a Tory government for the rest.

              it was mostly the business “community” and to a lesser extent the liberal arts and media communities OK with the business community capitalism and the market were the main drivers; but the influx of prominent British Asian businesspeople into society has cemented the fact that we are here to stay, and as well as traditional businesses such as catering/retail , and professions such medicine and science they increasingly made inroads into IT and fixed and mobile telecoms (telephones are very important to people with strong family ties whose relatives live in foreign lands!)

              With the arty types, although Islamophobia was less apparent the young “trendy” arts types initially thought that Asians were too “uncool” and “downtrodden by their parents/cultural views”, although particularly in London and SE they were increasingly accepted, particularly with “yoof TV” and “young peoples magazines” making it more common to see or read young British Asian reporters – but the “white middle class” media did stereotype Asians into “cultural ghettos”, and were totally confused by folk like me what are not totally Chinese but as much “Oriental” as “South Asian”.

              TBH it is the people though rather than politicians who were truly responsible for this progress, but multiculturalism is always fragile in a competitive world.

              #1221953
              jessifleur
              Participant

                For the record i’m not a uni student. I’m aware that most people don’t really give a shit about politics, and i’m also aware that one can’t really go from a standing start to power in the space of 1 election campaign. However, if the campaign gets off the ground we might get 1 or 2 MPs, or failing that raise awareness and maybe upset the established parties a little. for most people it’ll take 5 minutes of their life, and you can go to vote topless, stoned as fook with a beer in your hand. it’s hardly a trial is it?

                #1221954
                jessifleur
                Participant

                  and while i’m here:

                  It really doesn’t matter what group does it, but sooner or later the general fear of middle england, catalysed by a single event probably, will lead to the government imposing some unfair and pointless restrictions on the entire nation. something needs to be done on, or preferably before, that date to ensure that democracy survives. The instant a government in this day and age places restrictions on the privacy of the individual and their freedom of movement, a point of no return will have been reached.

                  Technology has largely developed to provide faster, simpler means of communication. If any party with the neccessary authority were to gain the power to read/ intercept any communication any resistance or deviation from line prescribed by this authority can be quickly detected, traced and acted on.

                  Can you imagine that? when they’ve stamped out all the real threats all the Fascists would be unemployed. But wait? what’s that? a tinny intercept of a chap phoning up for a bag o’ grass! come on lets go stomp the junkie mother****** and send him to our nice shiny camps for a disproportionately long time.

                  Ya kno whats ah’m sayin, Bled?

                  #1221921
                  General Lighting
                  Moderator

                    @jessifleur 368014 wrote:

                    and while i’m here:

                    It really doesn’t matter what group does it, but sooner or later the general fear of middle england, catalysed by a single event probably, will lead to the government imposing some unfair and pointless restrictions on the entire nation. something needs to be done on, or preferably before, that date to ensure that democracy survives. The instant a government in this day and age places restrictions on the privacy of the individual and their freedom of movement, a point of no return will have been reached.

                    Dude, that point was reached a decade ago. The boat has been missed (and sunk!) for dealing with stuff like that via the conventional political system. If/when it does all go tits up it will be sorted out by bitter drawn out warfare and much bloodshed of the innocent, same as what happened 70 years ago across the world. The big flaw of democracy is that people have every right to vote away democracy and replace it with something worse if enough of a community support it. Hitler, Mussolini and Hirohito did not work alone, they had their people behind them until those people were defeated by force of arms (not nice friendly chats).

                    In the meantime if you really want to make positive change you need to work just outside conventional political structures but not pose an overt threat to them. Stuff like the transition towns movement is doing a good job of this, if were lucky their good ideas will be put into practice before its too late.

                    #1221955
                    jessifleur
                    Participant

                      I don’t think it’s quite that bad yet (but having said that i was caught mushie picking and charged with possession of class A drugs). In my view there is still more than enough time to take action politically, tho to make any impact in the next 5-10 years some serious money, media attention and general hooplah surrounding the cause in question. But i have no idea how the establishment would react to a serious challenge from some speedy leftists who want to legalise drugs, mess around with their established economic and social policies (albiet to replace them with more ethical, more efficient, and less damaging ones)

                      #1221922
                      General Lighting
                      Moderator

                        @jessifleur 368027 wrote:

                        But i have no idea how the establishment would react to a serious challenge from some speedy leftists who want to legalise drugs, mess around with their established economic and social policies (albiet to replace them with more ethical, more efficient, and less damaging ones)

                        the same way they did with Exodus collective and the rest of the East Anglian ravers – by stringing them along, letting them “get away with it” whilst gathering a dossier of evidence against them whilst also waiting for them to fuck up through their own mistakes and stupidty. The system won that round and the new lot (Leviticus) are trying to come back for a second round but progress is painfully slow. Many of the rest of the EA ravers floated themselves into hell on a sea of ketamine.

                        The very fact they even bothered to bust you for shrooms shows how bad things have become. the town I live in today went from being a hub of the EA rave scene to having nothing and now full of angry alcoholics and addicts on a short fuse, but the more they kick off the more the system clamps down and the majority of people are on the side of the feds.

                        TBH I’d concentrate on the local environment/community type stuff like Transition and forget about legalising drugs for the moment. People have fucked up once more with mephedrone and given the rest of society a clear signal they are not yet ready to handle legal recreational drug use.

                        #1221935
                        MisterDuck
                        Participant

                          @General Lighting 368019 wrote:

                          In the meantime if you really want to make positive change you need to work just outside conventional political structures but not pose an overt threat to them. Stuff like the transition towns movement is doing a good job of this, if were lucky their good ideas will be put into practice before its too late.

                          There is a huge movement to support the Labour party “for the greater good” then if it elected, bring it back to the left. A lot of the up and coming Labour supporters are trying to do this. Would you say that’s a waste of time?

                          Out of interest GL, and you by no means obviously have to answer this, but who do you expect you’ll be voting?

                          #1221936
                          MisterDuck
                          Participant

                            @jessifleur 368007 wrote:

                            For the record i’m not a uni student. I’m aware that most people don’t really give a shit about politics, and i’m also aware that one can’t really go from a standing start to power in the space of 1 election campaign. However, if the campaign gets off the ground we might get 1 or 2 MPs, or failing that raise awareness and maybe upset the established parties a little. for most people it’ll take 5 minutes of their life, and you can go to vote topless, stoned as fook with a beer in your hand. it’s hardly a trial is it?

                            If you want to break the established party mould (by which I presume you mean LD/LAB/CONS) surely supporting a party such as the Green party would be more pragmatic than trying to push a couple of independents into government? The Green party actually stand a chance this election of gaining some seats. This won’t.

                            As well as this people should push for proportionate representation.

                            #1221923
                            General Lighting
                            Moderator

                              @MisterDuck 368044 wrote:

                              There is a huge movement to support the Labour party “for the greater good” then if it elected, bring it back to the left. A lot of the up and coming Labour supporters are trying to do this. Would you say that’s a waste of time?

                              yes. I have been a Labour supporter from 1987 to 2001 and they wouldn’t have got elected if the left wing hadn’t been muzzled. Middle England still has the power and only begrudginly put up even with Blair, it was Middle England who systematically sabotaged any moves Blair made towards social democracy, particularly with the fuel protest which was sponsored by the Tories, an attempt by one mainstream political party to use the so-called right to protest to unseat a democratically elected government…

                              Quote:
                              Out of interest GL, and you by no means obviously have to answer this, but who do you expect you’ll be voting?

                              Probably the Green party as they have a good local showing in the areas I spend the most of my time in, as well as across the Waveney in Norfolk. Our Labour MP and Councillors are actually some of the best in the UK but held back by the main party in London.

                              as cynical as I am about Parliamentary democracy I think its worth preserving as even in one party Commonwealth states with right wing populist governments such as Malaysia and Singapore (the political direction the UK is heading in) the fact different local politicans have slightly different views usually keeps the nation away from absolute dictatorship.

                              #1221937
                              MisterDuck
                              Participant

                                @General Lighting 368080 wrote:

                                yes. I have been a Labour supporter from 1987 to 2001 and they wouldn’t have got elected if the left wing hadn’t been muzzled. Middle England still has the power and only begrudginly put up even with Blair, it was Middle England who systematically sabotaged any moves Blair made towards social democracy, particularly with the fuel protest which was sponsored by the Tories, an attempt by one mainstream political party to use the so-called right to protest to unseat a democratically elected government…

                                Probably the Green party as they have a good local showing in the areas I spend the most of my time in, as well as across the Waveney in Norfolk. Our Labour MP and Councillors are actually some of the best in the UK but held back by the main party in London.

                                as cynical as I am about Parliamentary democracy I think its worth preserving as even in one party Commonwealth states with right wing populist governments such as Malaysia and Singapore (the political direction the UK is heading in) the fact different local politicans have slightly different views usually keeps the nation away from absolute dictatorship.

                                I voted Green in the European election – I’m a big fan of the Green party. But I think there is hope in the Labour party being moved back to the left, or at least centre-left, now Blair has gone. I will voted them because despite agreeing with the Green’s policies a lot more, it’s a bit pointless, and Labour needs the vote here to stay in (which is shocking – a Northern city at the risk of losing it’s Labour seat is a real example of how NewLabour have sold out their core voters).

                                I’d still rather see Labour than the Tories.

                                #1221946
                                GiantMidget
                                Participant

                                  I have a question for those that are in the know. When the general election comes around, we are voting for an MP in our local area aren’t we?

                                  #1221924
                                  General Lighting
                                  Moderator

                                    yes. there was a site where it tells you what constituency you are in but the UK gov site is crashed at the moment (probably everyone looking for weather info etc)

                                    #1221947
                                    GiantMidget
                                    Participant

                                      Ah right, If we gotta vote for our local MP then it’s Tory all the way. He (the tory) the been our MP for a couple years now i think and he’s awesome. A proper nice bloke who has done this town a service in the time he’s been around.

                                      #1221925
                                      General Lighting
                                      Moderator

                                        our Tory candiates aren’t even local – there’s a lot of beef about this and it might even split their vote.. whilst the Labour incumbent in my consituency is a good chap he is held back by the main party line..

                                        Bear in mind though that if you vote in a Tory govt you are potentially sacrificing the laws what allow music venues to stay late or even for you to drink a hour later in pubs. Basically nightlife could well go back to what it was like when I was young Josh’s age, and the regional licensing decisions in this area affect everyone all the way from where you are to where biotech and titch live.

                                        don’t expect a resurgence in the illegal party scene either, not with todays feds and resources..

                                        if you’re willing to make that sacrifice than fair enough and it doesn’t bother me much either as I’m older but you’ve also made it for the younger generations..

                                        #1221948
                                        GiantMidget
                                        Participant

                                          I doubt if the Tories get in the night life will change that much. Just because they might of been like it in the past doesn’t mean they’ll be like it again.

                                          Who knows though, I’m not that bothered about the Tories as a party but our MP has done so much for this town and that’s all i care about really. Plus he’s fighting to get our hospital reopened which Labour (the pricks) closed down. Now if we have an accident we gotta go to either Watford or Luton hospitals A&E and they’re both missions away,

                                          It’s things like this as to why he gets my vote. Everyone else is shit lol!

                                          #1221926
                                          General Lighting
                                          Moderator

                                            @DJCliffy 368360 wrote:

                                            I doubt if the Tories get in the night life will change that much. Just because they might of been like it in the past doesn’t mean they’ll be like it again.

                                            the problem is they aren’t even telling anyone much, but its widely claimed that one of their policies is to repeal the 2005 Licensing Act which is what allows a lot of smaller raves and festivals to happen as well as late night licensing hours. if they do not repeal it, they will change it so the “local residents” have more of a say on events and they invariably object to any dance music based event anywhere which is why some areas have hardly any legal events (such as the Southern end of East Anglia)

                                            what I am saying is, are you willing to take the risk of potentially losing a few late night venues/clubs? OK your area may be shit, but what about when (not if) it extends to London? I don’t think you are the sort of person what takes it for granted there will always be legal events to go to – but when you get a tory government (or even a more puritan Labour govt shifted to the right which might still happen) are you willing to live without them?

                                            #1221949
                                            GiantMidget
                                            Participant

                                              @General Lighting 368362 wrote:

                                              what I am saying is, are you willing to take the risk of potentially losing a few late night venues/clubs? OK your area may be shit, but what about when (not if) it extends to London? I don’t think you are the sort of person what takes it for granted there will always be legal events to go to – but when you get a tory government (or even a more puritan Labour govt shifted to the right which might still happen) are you willing to live without them?

                                              Tbh GL I’m not that bothered about late night events these days. They used to be a major part of my life but as of late my interest for em is dwindling.

                                              I think i might be a bit burnt out cos partying atm doesn’t interest me that much tbh. I even turned down the chance to go to NEC NYE cos i couldn’t be bothered (plus i was ill which didn’t help but i turned it down before i fell ill)

                                              Hence why I’m going to try and have a break from everything for a couple of months (hopefully). If successful I’ll probably be singing a different tune then mate!! 😉

                                            Viewing 21 posts - 26 through 46 (of 46 total)
                                            • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

                                            Forums The Vibe Chat Theres an election this year guys. now hear me out