Forums The Vibe Chat Question for GL and anyone else politically minded..

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  • #1042190
    process
    Participant

    With a nod to with what is happening in the rave scene what with all the riots etc, but also that some police forces/regions are becoming a bit more tolerant to it so long as the rig owners do it responsibly and out of the way by getting land owners permission, twes etc. What would be the chance of getting a political movement going so’s at least it would be possible to raise the question in a fair and open debate listening to both sides equally rather than just the proeganda from the police/government and the loved up plur rose-tinted and or bitter views from the ravers themselves. People may think im mad by even thinking this, but if any one has read ‘Kingdom Of Fear’ by ‘Hunter S. Thompson’ he almost became the Governor of Aspen, Colerado by mobilising the ‘wierd vote’ as he called it. So how many people do you think are involved in the rave scene and how many would vote for a ‘rave party’ (for want of a better name) that dont vote at all now. I know there is loads of issues, but it would be good to get a discussion going re: the pro’s and con’s. I know it would be hard to find someone clean to be a represantative so that the media/ other political parties couldnt shit stir, but you have to remember that Hunter S. Thompson was an outspoken advocate of all drugs pretty much and he nearly did it!Whats everyone reckon then?GOOD? or MAD?So what does everyone think
    (sorry if you’ve read this on another forum)

    #1118527
    Anonymous

    best thing i’ve read all year. if you can find someone who has the skill,s the patience, the time and the inclination to run such a thing id give you a medal.

    #1139257
    Anonymous

    best thing i’ve read all year. if you can find someone who has the skill,s the patience, the time and the inclination to run such a thing id give you a medal.

    #1118526
    globalloon
    Participant

    i don’t really see the point. free parties have been tolerated for years but too many people going to them couldn’t keep themselves in check

    i don’t want raves legalised, i want to see them underground

    #1139256
    globalloon
    Participant

    i don’t really see the point. free parties have been tolerated for years but too many people going to them couldn’t keep themselves in check

    i don’t want raves legalised, i want to see them underground

    #1118529
    process
    Participant

    @ USE – thats the problem isn it, but if H.S thompson could do it and he seemed to cane more drugs than most and still function, i dont see why there isnt someone out there who could do the same…

    #1139259
    process
    Participant

    @ USE – thats the problem isn it, but if H.S thompson could do it and he seemed to cane more drugs than most and still function, i dont see why there isnt someone out there who could do the same…

    #1118530
    process
    Participant

    there gonna be less and less tolerated tho if retards keep having riots and fucking the scene up for everyone else. Its all good for the areas where it is tolerated, but it would just be good to be able to put our side of the story cause at the moment it seems pretty one sided. Its all the ravers fault, they are all a load of vandals, racist druggie thugs, etc. Would just be good not to get tarred with the same brush and try and put the record straight somehow..

    globalloon wrote:
    i don’t really see the point. free parties have been tolerated for years but too many people going to them couldn’t keep themselves in check

    i don’t want raves legalised, i want to see them underground

    #1139260
    process
    Participant

    there gonna be less and less tolerated tho if retards keep having riots and fucking the scene up for everyone else. Its all good for the areas where it is tolerated, but it would just be good to be able to put our side of the story cause at the moment it seems pretty one sided. Its all the ravers fault, they are all a load of vandals, racist druggie thugs, etc. Would just be good not to get tarred with the same brush and try and put the record straight somehow..

    globalloon wrote:
    i don’t really see the point. free parties have been tolerated for years but too many people going to them couldn’t keep themselves in check

    i don’t want raves legalised, i want to see them underground

    #1118513
    General Lighting
    Moderator

    most of the local news outlets do take at least one story from the ravers, but the big counter argument for this region is they shouldn’t be in others’ private property in the first place – and that when they have had legal events the drug culture has caused problems.

    IMO its not just “raves” but the drugs laws and wider societies attitudes to drugs that needs to change before any progress can be made – as well as those who take drugs regulating themselves a bit better.

    Another reason why so many illegal parties happen in East Anglia is that after the death of Leah Betts in Essex loads of legal events got shut down in a moral panic against drugs and to this day its near impossible to put on a “rave-type event” in some counties without hassle and conditions – the cops think of everything possible to stop even legal events.

    OTOH If normal people and cops weren’t so scared of “druggies” there wouldn’t be half the paranoia on both sides over ravers and raves – they would be seen as no more threatening than tea dances or pet shows.

    #1139243
    General Lighting
    Moderator

    most of the local news outlets do take at least one story from the ravers, but the big counter argument for this region is they shouldn’t be in others’ private property in the first place – and that when they have had legal events the drug culture has caused problems.

    IMO its not just “raves” but the drugs laws and wider societies attitudes to drugs that needs to change before any progress can be made – as well as those who take drugs regulating themselves a bit better.

    Another reason why so many illegal parties happen in East Anglia is that after the death of Leah Betts in Essex loads of legal events got shut down in a moral panic against drugs and to this day its near impossible to put on a “rave-type event” in some counties without hassle and conditions – the cops think of everything possible to stop even legal events.

    OTOH If normal people and cops weren’t so scared of “druggies” there wouldn’t be half the paranoia on both sides over ravers and raves – they would be seen as no more threatening than tea dances or pet shows.

    #1118528
    Anonymous
    djprocess wrote:
    @ USE – thats the problem isn it, but if H.S thompson could do it and he seemed to cane more drugs than most and still function, i dont see why there isnt someone out there who could do the same…

    he was minted tho, and could afford to take time out and fund the campaign, not to mention the media platform he had.

    i know what globalloon is saying, but keeping freeparties underground is a lost battle at the mo. we are being branded as yobs worldwide by reuters at the moment, so we cant just try and be sly any more, the shit is coming down, we better be ready with a coherant counter-arguement, and teh infrastructure to back that up.

    in devon you guys have the luxury of being off teh national radar, people in the south east arent so lucky.

    #1139258
    Anonymous
    djprocess wrote:
    @ USE – thats the problem isn it, but if H.S thompson could do it and he seemed to cane more drugs than most and still function, i dont see why there isnt someone out there who could do the same…

    he was minted tho, and could afford to take time out and fund the campaign, not to mention the media platform he had.

    i know what globalloon is saying, but keeping freeparties underground is a lost battle at the mo. we are being branded as yobs worldwide by reuters at the moment, so we cant just try and be sly any more, the shit is coming down, we better be ready with a coherant counter-arguement, and teh infrastructure to back that up.

    in devon you guys have the luxury of being off teh national radar, people in the south east arent so lucky.

    #1118514
    General Lighting
    Moderator

    is it really another “political movement” people need? or just better organised party crews?

    There was the Freedom To Party movement in 1989 (the Young Tories!!!) with yuppies fighting for legal events on a commercial free enterprise basis (it was the 80s still)

    Then Altern 8 (the old skool lot who wore dust masks) set up a political party in 1992 (which was seen as amusing but achieved little else),

    Spiral tribe tried the political stuff and as an offshoot from them in 1994 there was the Advance Party movement which protested against the CJA but fractured due to internal politics (although it did contribute to the London free party scene for a bit)

    plus its difficult to argue the case for conventional underground parties when they already have been proven by bitter experience to get out of hand..

    Maybe all thats needed is a few more events like what Planet Yes did – well organised, held using the TENS system, only cost a fiver to get in (and me and my mates got in there for free, even if one of them did fall in a river on the way) – OK it means effort, discipline and organisation compared to a current free party but is it really that much of a climbdown?

    #1139244
    General Lighting
    Moderator

    is it really another “political movement” people need? or just better organised party crews?

    There was the Freedom To Party movement in 1989 (the Young Tories!!!) with yuppies fighting for legal events on a commercial free enterprise basis (it was the 80s still)

    Then Altern 8 (the old skool lot who wore dust masks) set up a political party in 1992 (which was seen as amusing but achieved little else),

    Spiral tribe tried the political stuff and as an offshoot from them in 1994 there was the Advance Party movement which protested against the CJA but fractured due to internal politics (although it did contribute to the London free party scene for a bit)

    plus its difficult to argue the case for conventional underground parties when they already have been proven by bitter experience to get out of hand..

    Maybe all thats needed is a few more events like what Planet Yes did – well organised, held using the TENS system, only cost a fiver to get in (and me and my mates got in there for free, even if one of them did fall in a river on the way) – OK it means effort, discipline and organisation compared to a current free party but is it really that much of a climbdown?

    #1118521
    djvu
    Participant
    General Lighting wrote:
    is it really another “political movement” people need? or just better organised party crews?

    There was the Freedom To Party movement in 1989 (the Young Tories!!!) with yuppies fighting for legal events on a commercial free enterprise basis (it was the 80s still)

    Then Altern 8 (the old skool lot who wore dust masks) set up a political party in 1992 (which was seen as amusing but achieved little else),

    Spiral tribe tried the political stuff and as an offshoot from them in 1994 there was the Advance Party movement which protested against the CJA but fractured due to internal politics (although it did contribute to the London free party scene for a bit)

    plus its difficult to argue the case for conventional underground parties when they already have been proven by bitter experience to get out of hand..

    Maybe all thats needed is a few more events like what Planet Yes did – well organised, held using the TENS system, only cost a fiver to get in (and me and my mates got in there for free, even if one of them did fall in a river on the way) – OK it means effort, discipline and organisation compared to a current free party but is it really that much of a climbdown?

    true but as a observation of your post , Non have made it , If not for any remeberable amount of time, And things have only got worse since the 80,s early 90,s. In fact a point could be made that each interventino from us by these means has down nothin more than provoke it to get worse legally

    #1139251
    djvu
    Participant
    General Lighting wrote:
    is it really another “political movement” people need? or just better organised party crews?

    There was the Freedom To Party movement in 1989 (the Young Tories!!!) with yuppies fighting for legal events on a commercial free enterprise basis (it was the 80s still)

    Then Altern 8 (the old skool lot who wore dust masks) set up a political party in 1992 (which was seen as amusing but achieved little else),

    Spiral tribe tried the political stuff and as an offshoot from them in 1994 there was the Advance Party movement which protested against the CJA but fractured due to internal politics (although it did contribute to the London free party scene for a bit)

    plus its difficult to argue the case for conventional underground parties when they already have been proven by bitter experience to get out of hand..

    Maybe all thats needed is a few more events like what Planet Yes did – well organised, held using the TENS system, only cost a fiver to get in (and me and my mates got in there for free, even if one of them did fall in a river on the way) – OK it means effort, discipline and organisation compared to a current free party but is it really that much of a climbdown?

    true but as a observation of your post , Non have made it , If not for any remeberable amount of time, And things have only got worse since the 80,s early 90,s. In fact a point could be made that each interventino from us by these means has down nothin more than provoke it to get worse legally

    #1118515
    General Lighting
    Moderator
    djvu wrote:
    true but as a observation of your post , Non have made it , If not for any remeberable amount of time, And things have only got worse since the 80,s early 90,s. In fact a point could be made that each interventino from us by these means has down nothin more than provoke it to get worse legally

    thats what I was pointing out – at present, the more people stick their neck out without addressing the wider issues (drug addiction, noise, trouble etc) they will just provoke a backlash. When Advance party (IMO the last effective campaign) was around they overlooked the problems with the smashy smashy crew which were already happening back then, plus all the squatters getting on to K or heroin.

    This why I suggested the only thing worth doing on the party scene is well run parties – they are actually possible even today for those who aren’t dumbed down and disorganised. These days I don’t believe in the K “conspiracy” theory (that it was sent by “babylon”) as too many people won’t exercise self control and its what fucks them over in the end.

    IMO the only political movements worth supporting are those campaigns which lobby for more sensible licensing and drug laws – a combination of proper education as well as controls/enforcement so people learn their limits themselves instead of having to have them enforced all the time by the cops…

    #1139245
    General Lighting
    Moderator
    djvu wrote:
    true but as a observation of your post , Non have made it , If not for any remeberable amount of time, And things have only got worse since the 80,s early 90,s. In fact a point could be made that each interventino from us by these means has down nothin more than provoke it to get worse legally

    thats what I was pointing out – at present, the more people stick their neck out without addressing the wider issues (drug addiction, noise, trouble etc) they will just provoke a backlash. When Advance party (IMO the last effective campaign) was around they overlooked the problems with the smashy smashy crew which were already happening back then, plus all the squatters getting on to K or heroin.

    This why I suggested the only thing worth doing on the party scene is well run parties – they are actually possible even today for those who aren’t dumbed down and disorganised. These days I don’t believe in the K “conspiracy” theory (that it was sent by “babylon”) as too many people won’t exercise self control and its what fucks them over in the end.

    IMO the only political movements worth supporting are those campaigns which lobby for more sensible licensing and drug laws – a combination of proper education as well as controls/enforcement so people learn their limits themselves instead of having to have them enforced all the time by the cops…

    #1118522
    djvu
    Participant
    General Lighting wrote:
    thats what I was pointing out – at present, the more people stick their neck out without addressing the wider issues (drug addiction, noise, trouble etc) they will just provoke a backlash. When Advance party (IMO the last effective campaign) was around they overlooked the problems with the smashy smashy crew which were already happening back then, plus all the squatters getting on to K or heroin.

    This why I suggested the only thing worth doing on the party scene is well run parties – they are actually possible even today for those who aren’t dumbed down and disorganised

    IMO the only political movements worth supporting are those campaigns which lobby for more sensible drug laws – a combination of proper education as well as controls/enforcement so people learn their limits instead of having to have them enforced all the time by the cops…

    yer it would and can be done and i would like to see better info and education on drugs limits, Although i wouldnt legailse any of them

    #1139252
    djvu
    Participant
    General Lighting wrote:
    thats what I was pointing out – at present, the more people stick their neck out without addressing the wider issues (drug addiction, noise, trouble etc) they will just provoke a backlash. When Advance party (IMO the last effective campaign) was around they overlooked the problems with the smashy smashy crew which were already happening back then, plus all the squatters getting on to K or heroin.

    This why I suggested the only thing worth doing on the party scene is well run parties – they are actually possible even today for those who aren’t dumbed down and disorganised

    IMO the only political movements worth supporting are those campaigns which lobby for more sensible drug laws – a combination of proper education as well as controls/enforcement so people learn their limits instead of having to have them enforced all the time by the cops…

    yer it would and can be done and i would like to see better info and education on drugs limits, Although i wouldnt legailse any of them

    #1118516
    General Lighting
    Moderator
    djvu wrote:
    yer it would and can be done and i would like to see better info and education on drugs limits, Although i wouldnt legailse any of them

    I don’t think full “legalisation” would work until the whole UN agreed on some plan but I think sensible legislation would be that something like you could do a certain amount without penalty provided you did not commit any crime or anti-social behaviour or make yourself unable to contribute to society..

    the sort of laws I would like to see would be that if someone does 5 pills on a weekend and goes to work or college on monday that would be OK – but if they drove like an idiot under the influence or got in a fight on the comedown they would get nicked for drugs like the old penalties…

    dealers would be subject to quality control and taxation to fund the health service, and if they were involved in violence over turf it should be double the old penalty both for drug dealing and violent crime…

    #1139246
    General Lighting
    Moderator
    djvu wrote:
    yer it would and can be done and i would like to see better info and education on drugs limits, Although i wouldnt legailse any of them

    I don’t think full “legalisation” would work until the whole UN agreed on some plan but I think sensible legislation would be that something like you could do a certain amount without penalty provided you did not commit any crime or anti-social behaviour or make yourself unable to contribute to society..

    the sort of laws I would like to see would be that if someone does 5 pills on a weekend and goes to work or college on monday that would be OK – but if they drove like an idiot under the influence or got in a fight on the comedown they would get nicked for drugs like the old penalties…

    dealers would be subject to quality control and taxation to fund the health service, and if they were involved in violence over turf it should be double the old penalty both for drug dealing and violent crime…

    #1118523
    djvu
    Participant
    General Lighting wrote:
    I don’t think full “legalisation” would work until the whole UN agreed on some plan but I think sensible legislation would be that something like you could do a certain amount without penalty provided you did not commit any crime or anti-social behaviour or make yourself unable to contribute to society..

    the sort of laws I would like to see would be that if someone does 5 pills on a weekend and goes to work or college on monday that would be OK – but if they drove like an idiot under the influence or got in a fight on the comedown they would get nicked for drugs like the old penalties…

    dealers would be subject to quality control and taxation to fund the health service, and if they were involved in violence over turf it should be double the old penalty both for drug dealing and violent crime…

    no i wouldnt go as far as that imo and its leaving it totally open to the same situtation now

    If say pill became legalised and taxed they would be taxed to fuck Not like it would ever happen but if it did.

    People underground would still be in market to sell pills what would be cheaper but neither the less no better quality wise than what they are now

    So instead of the tescos outpricing the corner shop

    The criminals/ dealers will be outpricing the goverment

    Same situ as cheap baccky what quite often can xcome across as fake, But the nature of pills it would be alot more prolific

    Then statisitcally pill deaths are few and far between but so are deaths from smoking if the same number of people doing pills every weekend or what everr had a fag instead.

    Like 2 fags at a weekend on and off till they decide its pointess and grow out of it, Same with booze. But fags are addictive and booze can ruin people

    Pills .. If pills was to become legal everyone would wonder whaty they are and say pill usuage would multipy into millions. That would be mroe than a few extra people dying of reactions/ dehidration, overdrinking, and a lot more people going mental coz they mucnh pills ( coz theer legal innit they cant be bad! attitude) and suffring from the implications of what we all know when it involves the mandy

    Trouble is , Us a humans cant deal with holding down things, If it was legal it would be abused to much like booze is,

    And come on us brits are renowned fro our drinking habits, Fighting and being wankers so what would we tuern into if pills wheer made legal?

    i wiouldnt want to know and i wouldnt have it happen

    Doesnt matter what advice you give people,. SOme people wont listen the same people who dont listen to fag packet warnings the same people who dont mind drinking themselves into a stuoper every day the same people who would turn up to our already overloaded hospitals with seratonin disorders and depressive illnesses

    We are not all desgined to take these and not suffer so the easiest thing to do as far as the goeverment are concered whether they are particularly low risk as far as there sats are concerned is to keep them illegal

    #1139253
    djvu
    Participant
    General Lighting wrote:
    I don’t think full “legalisation” would work until the whole UN agreed on some plan but I think sensible legislation would be that something like you could do a certain amount without penalty provided you did not commit any crime or anti-social behaviour or make yourself unable to contribute to society..

    the sort of laws I would like to see would be that if someone does 5 pills on a weekend and goes to work or college on monday that would be OK – but if they drove like an idiot under the influence or got in a fight on the comedown they would get nicked for drugs like the old penalties…

    dealers would be subject to quality control and taxation to fund the health service, and if they were involved in violence over turf it should be double the old penalty both for drug dealing and violent crime…

    no i wouldnt go as far as that imo and its leaving it totally open to the same situtation now

    If say pill became legalised and taxed they would be taxed to fuck Not like it would ever happen but if it did.

    People underground would still be in market to sell pills what would be cheaper but neither the less no better quality wise than what they are now

    So instead of the tescos outpricing the corner shop

    The criminals/ dealers will be outpricing the goverment

    Same situ as cheap baccky what quite often can xcome across as fake, But the nature of pills it would be alot more prolific

    Then statisitcally pill deaths are few and far between but so are deaths from smoking if the same number of people doing pills every weekend or what everr had a fag instead.

    Like 2 fags at a weekend on and off till they decide its pointess and grow out of it, Same with booze. But fags are addictive and booze can ruin people

    Pills .. If pills was to become legal everyone would wonder whaty they are and say pill usuage would multipy into millions. That would be mroe than a few extra people dying of reactions/ dehidration, overdrinking, and a lot more people going mental coz they mucnh pills ( coz theer legal innit they cant be bad! attitude) and suffring from the implications of what we all know when it involves the mandy

    Trouble is , Us a humans cant deal with holding down things, If it was legal it would be abused to much like booze is,

    And come on us brits are renowned fro our drinking habits, Fighting and being wankers so what would we tuern into if pills wheer made legal?

    i wiouldnt want to know and i wouldnt have it happen

    Doesnt matter what advice you give people,. SOme people wont listen the same people who dont listen to fag packet warnings the same people who dont mind drinking themselves into a stuoper every day the same people who would turn up to our already overloaded hospitals with seratonin disorders and depressive illnesses

    We are not all desgined to take these and not suffer so the easiest thing to do as far as the goeverment are concered whether they are particularly low risk as far as there sats are concerned is to keep them illegal

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Forums The Vibe Chat Question for GL and anyone else politically minded..