“And in California since the introduction of Megan’s Law, paedophile offences have risen not fallen.”

that’s pretty relevant

convicted paedophiles that pose a risk should not be released from prison

there is already legislation in place to prevent release from prison if a violent offender is likely to re-offend… punishment in advance for crimes likely to be committed if released… using that would be a good start

if i found out that a paedophile had been housed in my street, what would i be expected to do with that information? panic? attack them? drive them out?

:crazy_dru :crazy_dru :crazy_dru an on an on …what is the point of this thread…no dont anwser that ….for fuks sake:crazy_dru :crazy_dru :crazy_dru

get off your soap box…are you a parent …

ok…im out of here on this one i ve said my bit ive two kids as well one 13 one 6 an i d wanna know where those nonsing bastards are …they should be named an shamed …i dont car two fuks about their rights they gave them up when they started feeling up innocent kids…fuk the tabloids i hate them this aint about that is it …the thread on this was locked right cos like yous said it will go on an on round an round an noone cos it is something very close to my heart…listen i work with kids who have been abused ive seen the damage first hand an …i ve come home in tears …but you have your opinion thats fine …but this conversation is dragging this forum down man its a subject like religion some think yeah some think no ….i say hang the bastards by the bollocks…..over an out…

April you don’t seem to be grasping the idea of this debate. By my summation we probably all have the same amount of contempt for paedophilia but what we are discussing is the pros and cons of whether a law would be benefitial for our community. IMHO the original thread was wrongly locked as people such as Globalloon and Col didn’t have enough time to deliberate their opinions on whether this law would be beneficial for all concerned. But no way is this conversation dragging this forum down, actually on the contrary, because topics like this and other emotive ones are what liberal minded peeps like myself joined in the first place for. So whether you think paedophiles should be hung by their gonads or whether I think that pushers of heroin should have their cocks rammed down their throats is a matter for all of us to have a healthy debate. FYI I think that Sarah’s law is a mumbo jumbo idea designed to scaremong people like myself and others into signing something that they may regret doing so after ruminating ‘the bigger picture‘.

TBH the only reason people are supporting laws like this is that they do not feel the punishments for many crimes are adequate, and all violent offenders are not sufficiently monitored by law enforcement (rathar than the public).

Even if murderers, rapists and violent criminals were not named and shamed I think their movements should be monitored and controlled for the rest of their lives – Anyone who hurts someone else unless its clear self-defence should IMO be monitored for the rest of their life and have restrictions placed on their life (such as a pub brawler should not be permitted to drink in groups) or at least until it is clear they no longer pose a threat.

But this should be for real crimes rather than faults and vices…and not for people who merely steal property (there are already effective alarms, CCTV and electronic countermeasures to deter them).

Something which may be confusing the issue (although its mentioned in the wiki article USE posted) is that US versions of this law do mean all sex offenders – including rapists, stalkers etc, not just those who attack children.

So it may well be seen to “work” as it could possibly deter the aggressive predators rather than the mentally ill; but it would more likely be working in frightening the redneck who thinks he can force himself on a girl or young woman rather than a child sex offender.

The desire for this law is a modern version of a step back to a previous solution (that of physically marking offenders such as branding or cutting off their ears etc) because the progressive solution of prison and supposed rehabilitation has failed.

I can see why this has happened; in a recent news report in my own area where a serious repeat sex offender was caught the judge pointed out that the sentences for such offences have been reduced. They should be a substantial term of several years that should include mental health treatment as well as incarceration.

This doesn’t make sense ; but too many people go to jail for trivial offences in particular petty theft, small possession of drugs and non-payment of traffic fines etc.

Over the years loads of my mates have ended up in the can at least once for petty offences; often all it does is fucks up their lives to the point where they end up doing more crime to support themselves because no-one will give them a job and they’ve been estranged from their families.

There is only so much place in prison.

Society has to realise and accept lower sentences and non-custodial sentences for these minor offences if there is to be sufficient resources left within the criminal justice system to deal with the serious offenders.

The 180,000 people on the sex offenders register is a fact; and it is frightening; OTOH not all of them are specifically targeting children.

The cops and other agencies keep seperate classified lists of people who pose a specific threat to kids (age 0-18) , and another list for those who pose a threat to vulnerable adults (age 18+). The numbers here are a few tens of thousands. Still way too many; but nothing like 180,000.

I think there is potentially a sex offender on every street corner; but not always a paedophile.

That includes the “jack the lad” type who thinks its OK to get a quick grope in on a crowded dancefloor, or “drunken/drugged consent is consent”.

Be aware though that the standard sex offenders register includes anything from peeping toms and flashers to young teenage girls who put a naked picture of themselves and/or their friends on myspace!

A lot of the offenders are also children aged 11-16 with often consensual sexual partners of similar ages. Until recently this was virtually tolerated as “teenage experimentation”.

Now it is increasingly being treated as a serious crime, and there is also a nasty trend of lads that age commiting forcible sexual offences against others their same age group, particularly those influenced by the negative aspects of the Grime/garage/guns culture… (april – if you work wiht NSPCC etc you may have also been made aware of this)

What do people suggest about how to deal with these types? I definitely don’t think they should be let off; and like I said before I think a large proportion of older offenders are younger ones who have managed to evade capture.

OTOH I don’t think “nervous breakdowns” are any excuse for downloading inappropriate material. If someone has a breakdown and beats up strangers in the street or burns someones house they have still committed a crime and should still be punished (although they can receive treatment in prison). Even downloading images gives support other to predators. People do not just stumble across this stuff online…

Youths who force themselves on others should also be imprisoned for substantial lengths of time; IMO at least enough so they sacrifice their youth and are released as middle aged and definitely a whole life tarriff is serious violence has been used – but what about “puppy love” getting out of hand? And would it be appropriate to publish their details, given that these younger offenders often still live with their families?

yeah…. we re gonna all have to agree to disagree on certain things,,,,debates are worthwhile …… its when they get to personal comments made it gets out of hand in this case it hasnt has it…ok i read thingy is talking bollocks ….thats the way i am…..hope no offence took……have a good wknd everyone!!!!!…xxx April :love:

Nobody is argueing that child abuse (or any other abuse for that matter) is wrong, and needs to be stopped. We know that, and as far as I have seen are all in agreement.

The question is not “does it need to be stopped”, it’s how do we go about doing it (in a way that ensures it’s the victims problems we pay most attention to dealing with). The point Use was making is entirely valid – a large percentage of abusers were themselves abused as children, and this isn’t a black and white issue. It’s complex. The old maxim is that violence begets violence, and the cycle of violence will continue unless we do something about healing the victims. Sarah’s law is definetly not about healing…Sorry, but that’s fact. It is based firmly in the realm of revenge and hatred with a side order of fear, and will benefit few, while harming many.

What will we say to the children in the next generation who are in hell, being abused because we made a law that meant more energy was spent on avenging and general hysteria than healing? And while we were busy, the damaged ones grew up, and became abusers themselves (course, we’d still have a bogeyman to take it out on:you_crazy:you_crazy, so we’d still be able to get rid of all that bottled up hatred). Michael J Strazinsky said it best – when we become obsessed with the enemy, we become the enemy.

We’ve just started to really get a grip (as a society) on what most people find extremely uncomfortable and inflammatory issues, and the effort has been steadily moving towards dealing with the root cause of the problem, and helping those who most need it. The last thing that is needed is a law that gives us an easy way out emotionally by polarising the situation and presenting a handy guilt free punch bag to let it all out on…:head_bang:head_bang:head_bang

Why is Sarah’s law the only way for what seems to be a fair number of people? Why not put some energy into campaining for longer sentences or more effective monitoring of convicted offenders? Or more safe houses which give the victims somewhere to run to? Or support and help workers for when they try to get away from their abuser?

How is knowing there are x number of registered offenders living near you going to make anybody’s life any better? all it will do is create more fear, which will in turn boil over into violence. Rinse and repeat…:head_to_h

i am going to raise a few points here i would welcome reasoned opinions on – if you dont wish to participate in an informed debate close this thread right now

right off we go:groucho:

sexual abuse is defined as non-consensual sexual contact or sexual contact forbidden by law [please let me know if i am wrong 😉 i have always been unsure where exactly the black and white of this issue are defined]

i am delighted to see it discussed in such depth – when i was a child it was not talked about and this didnt work for the victims – only the perpetrators

to me the root problem here is the taboo nature of the subject – it is done behind closed doors and no one admits to it or discusses it

if someone steps forward wanting treatment for paedophilia or some other disorder which causes them to want to sexually abuse others how do you think they would be received? even if they have never touched or looked at photos of that which excites them?
i think they will be treated like freaks [which to many people they are as they have ‘deviant’ [not normally found] sexual appetites] and this is not going to encourage them to get help at an early stage – if anything it will discourage them from seeking help

i think a law which put all sex offender’s addresses in the public domain via the right of people to ask is not going to achieve less paedophilia or any other kind of sexual abuse
it may lead to the witch hunts suggested in other parts of the threads and to be sure it will drive the cleverest [and likely most dangerous] offenders underground where we cannot monitor them or control them – if we cant find them they are unmonitored and free to do what they like
[even in the UK it is possible to live an existence where no one knows your real name and there are no paper records of your existence]

what we do with the sex offenders we catch is a big problem – they should certainly not be released into the community to prey on their chosen target groups again

the ones we catch though are likely to be the tip of the iceberg – what about the ones we dont catch or ever find out about? The ones preying on those they know and/or are related to? what about targeting them instead?
why do they do it? it is my belief [based on my reading on the subject – again please let me know if i am wrong :wink:] that they mostly do it because they had at some point been victims themselves.
so how do we stop this hidden and poisonous abuse of the vulnerable in our society? it scars the lives of the victims and they in turn are likely to do it to others.
we need to break the cycle of violence and again i dont see how persecuting the ones who we have caught is going to do that [it will ensure that those we have not caught will be extra careful to not get caught] – they deserve to be punished but not at the expense of the victims

if we dont get to the victims and help them understand it is wrong and they were not at fault we are just burying our heads in the sand about it – it will continue to happen and be ignored [often to preserve familial and other relationships] at the expense of those who are being preyed on

people need to made to understand that there are things you should not do to others and things which others should never do to you – a clear definition of what constitutes sexual abuse would be of great help as would education in what the signs of abuse in vulnerable people are

i have gotten a bit stuck here – i know what i am trying to say and cant get it out :crazy_fre:crazy_fre:crazy_fre:crazy_fre

would you guys please help me? and also please comment on anything i have said which you do not agree with:groucho: [no personal attacks though :wink:]