Forums The Vibe Chat rig returned

Viewing 8 posts - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)
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  • #1036922
    elraveon
    Participant

    at least one rig that was seized at the moot has been returned.

    Returned to the owner that hired it I believe.

    #1067656
    Looney
    Participant

    that is true, most bits of 3 rigs have actually been returned, most of another will be returned soon, i am not sure whats happening to the other systems yet.

    however, there is still a serious amount of equipment in the hands of Hampshire Constabulary, and some will be highly unlikely to be returned.

    Also even though some stuff has been returned, there is still likely to be charges brought against people for this event and / or hefty fines imposed by the courts (should the proseceaution be successful)

    A lesson which can be learned is to make sure if you take a rig out that it is hired from a pa company of which you have the hire documents. or that the equipment is borrowed from people who were unaware of what it was being used for and those people can prove they own it.

    #1067658
    elraveon
    Participant

    there is still likely to be charges brought against people for this event and / or hefty fines imposed by the courts.

    you sound very sure of this, I would be interested to know what laws were broken with this event, or what proof they have, if any.

    the Police can bring charges but they have to be proven unless you plead guilty.

    for what it is worth if you make a statement keep it short and clear ie. “it was a private party(friends and friends of friends) when the sec63 was issued you complied and left the site as soon as was physicaly possible” or if you are interviewed my best advice would be “no comment”, thats not easy but if they have evidence they dont need yours, they will be hoping to get you to say the wrong thing to their cleverly put questions. best of luck.

    #1067653
    General Lighting
    Moderator

    if some of the stuff has been returned but not other kit then clearly this is still an active case and everyone should be extremely careful what is said in public, until such time as either the kit is returned/charges dropped or a Court date is announced. if you have info that may assist the defence use the private message system, or better still discuss it face to face or on voice telephone circuits.

    unfortunately although there is a habeas corpus rule about unlawful detention of persons, AFAIK no such law exists about property and cops seem to be able to hold it for a considerable amount of time before bringing the case before Court or dropping it.

    it is also a bargaining tool which can be used to extract further information from people or for spin purposes. the stuff confiscated by TVP a year ago still does not appear to have been returned.

    another thing which is happening now is that cops pass on details of whoever claims the rig kit or involvement with the rave to the “aggrieved” (land / premises manager) so they can launch a civil tort case in the civil courts (which requires a lower burden of proof than a criminal tort case) but is nasty as it can result in bailifs seizing stuff from your home or your credit rating being erased which would affect you if you wanted to set up your own business.

    its not the dot-com days any more, money and resources are becoming a lot tighter worldwide after war, terrorism and environmental damage. Even those who have money and power see it slipping away and are fighting to keep hold of it at any costs.

    the rest of society is playing the numbers game and counting the costs which IMO is one of the biggest reasons why PEL and civil law is being used to try and make life as difficult as possible for those involved with the rave scene. The ultimate idea seems to be to make these events so costly to put on in terms of financial losses to organisers, that many are forced into getting some form of license and permission from land/building managers, or simply giving up.

    There is of course the danger though that removing this relatively low-cost form of social release will merely drive already disaffected young people to binge drinking and more pernicious class A drug use with obvious unwanted consequences to society in increased crime/anti-social behaviour. I personally think that major and violent crime has actually increased since the rave clampdown, particularly in areas where raves used to happen but no longer do so.. at least ketamine keeps down a lot of the anger on the streets today.

    raves have always caused “hidden costs” to others, but these were grudingly tolerated in the dot.com days then as there was a lot of spare buildings from bankrupt companies where no-one had a fucking clue who owned what asset, (they were simply abandoned)

    Also, the middle englanders who lived around the ridgeway and other outdoor rave venues weren’t quite as bothered about a bit of din when they could at least buy a couple extra bottles of wine or cheap gin knowing their shares were rising in value.

    those who farmed had fat subsidies; which are all being slashed. it was also the “cool britannia” time just after blair got in where even middle englanders were supposed to be rediscovering art, music and hedonism…

    now things are harsher, it seems that the rest of of society is simply sharing the pain – its in many ways becoming a simple reprisal “why should they have fun at our expense on our resources whilst we work hard?” if this simply sounds like a grumpy old businessman kicking a dog because he had a bad day at work, this is exactly what is going on now.

    #1067655
    globalloon
    Participant
    General Lighting wrote:
    Also, the middle englanders who lived around the ridgeway and other outdoor rave venues weren’t quite as bothered about a bit of din when they could at least buy a couple extra bottles of wine or cheap gin knowing their shares were rising in value.

    those who farmed had fat subsidies; which are all being slashed. it was also the “cool britannia” time just after blair got in where even middle englanders were supposed to be rediscovering art, music and hedonism…

    now things are harsher, it seems that the rest of of society is simply sharing the pain – its in many ways becoming a simple reprisal “why should they have fun at our expense on our resources whilst we work hard?” if this simply sounds like a grumpy old businessman kicking a dog because he had a bad day at work, this is exactly what is going on now.

    I have to say I hadn’t noticed things getting harsher

    the rich are still getting richer

    the poor are also getting richer, although more slowly than the rich

    the cultural shift I have noticed is that there is simply far less tolerance golbally (certainly in Europe and USA) for anything that is not profit making.

    this crush isn’t even just about semi anarchic creativity. the govt, local authorities have spent the last few “glory years” consolidating their power while we’ve been busy enjoying the sun

    now, many respectable not-for-profit organisations that have a very clear social value (homeless action services, non-statutory drug services, services for disabled even) are being squeezed / manpulated out of business by those authorities / service providers that don’t want any fleas in their ears criticising their housing / drug / social policies

    the party scene doesn’t stand a chance of legitimacy in this climate of authority based on middle-minority concensus

    we simly have to take great care, sink deeper and channel our passion, creativity and beliefs toward formats acceptable to the mainstream, constantly challenging, all the while throwing solid parties that are well thought through and truly underground…

    and remember that this mess is at least 50% our own doing

    #1067657
    Looney
    Participant
    elraveon wrote:
    you sound very sure of this, I would be interested to know what laws were broken with this event, or what proof they have, if any.

    the Police can bring charges but they have to be proven unless you plead guilty.

    for what it is worth if you make a statement keep it short and clear ie. “it was a private party(friends and friends of friends) when the sec63 was issued you complied and left the site as soon as was physicaly possible” or if you are interviewed my best advice would be “no comment”, thats not easy but if they have evidence they dont need yours, they will be hoping to get you to say the wrong thing to their cleverly put questions. best of luck.

    As far as i am aware (i’m dont know much about this event as i wasnt involved, nor was i there) NO laws were broken as s63 was fully complied with and the event did not require any form of license. however there is a lot of hear say about this private members only event but this really is not the place to discuss things.

    the press have reported that it was a 5 day pop festival where tickets were being sold in london. so someone has a lot of misinformation somewhere regarding this event as this is so obviously rubbish.

    #1067654
    General Lighting
    Moderator
    globalloon wrote:
    creativity and beliefs toward formats acceptable to the mainstream, constantly challenging, all the while throwing solid parties that are well thought through and truly underground…

    and remember that this mess is at least 50% our own doing

    life hasn’t got much harsher for the royals, politicians or established captains of industry with solid and growing investments,

    these people are aware they make enemies by their actions to gain power so take appropriate security precautions or “risk management” as it is usually called.. Wars, terrorism, market fluctuations are nothing new and just “part of the game”, they plan to ensure they either win or if they lose it does not hurt them too badly.

    the problem people I am referring to are perhaps the “nouveaux riches / petit bourgeoisie” ; those who perhaps were themselves once from the rabble but who have “built themselves up” (often at the expense of others). As you know its these types who buy the houses in the country, and then whinge about livestock noise/manure etc…

    they are feeling beleaguered by stuff like rising fuel prices, war, terrorism, disappearance of local stores, but at the same time simply refuse to abandon their total faith in the “free market economy” (or a little englander / mitteleuropa mentality stuck in a mythical time in the 1950s which never existed at all! [1]

    they look for people to blame and scapegoats, and find them amongst drugged up layabouts” / “regulation / red tape” (often only brought in to stop people or the environment being over-exploited) “politically correct do-gooders” etc, “handout culture” (but not farm subsidies!) and use their time, resources and social networks to make things as difficult for their ppponents, albeit usually without “breaking the law” or keeping the “moral high ground” (although the law is stacked in their favour)

    which is where the ball is back in our court… I think its now getting to the stage where we are having to justify the existence of any lifestyle other than the “middle minority consensus”; and part of this is by minimising the negative social/environmental consequences of activities such as raving or recreational drug use.

    a far bigger worry I have than the obvious opponents from age-old class wars is the situation in Scandinanvian countries which are apparently far less socially divided and better run than other parts of Europe.

    It seems that they have given a lot more room to alternative lifestyles at some points of their history; but those who lived these lifestyles caused such a negative social impact that the consensus swung totally against them and they are no longer widely accepted by anyone of any social class… (a similar thing has happened in some Asian countries).

    Like globaloon said the problem is 50% ours, and sometimes the enemy is within…

    [1] the truth being that most of Europe was picking up the pieces having trashed the continent during a bloody war just a few years ago, and was about to spend the future living under the shadow of a weapon which “ended” that war, only to start another..

    #1067659
    elraveon
    Participant

    As far as i am aware (i’m dont know much about this event as i wasnt involved, nor was i there) NO laws were broken as s63 was fully complied with and the event did not require any form of license. however there is a lot of hear say about this private members only event but this really is not the place to discuss things.

    the press have reported that it was a 5 day pop festival where tickets were being sold in london. so someone has a lot of misinformation somewhere regarding this event as this is so obviously rubbish.

    cheers mate clearly this isnt the place to dissus somethings (I had thought you seemed to know something about the charges)but on the other hand I have seen people go down because of lack of discusion and they faced it alone. lack of discusion can lead to people being not only mis-informed but un-informed. its a two edged sword

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Forums The Vibe Chat rig returned