Forums Music Psytrance and the way it’s perceived by other dance music fans

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  • #1050532
    AvatarKodama
    Participant

    I know, I know, I’m a total one trick pony, always going on about psytrance and how lush it is, so I apologise in advance…

    …but I was wondering why so many people in other underground dance music scenes have such an aversion to this style of music and its followers. Everywhere I look, there’s so much animosity towards it and it makes no sense to me.

    I actually spoke to a big fan of techno a couple of weeks ago and he said it’s because psytrance is airy fairy and not hard enough. But I really don’t buy that at all… For example, tracks like these

    [yt]KDQnKnj3gLA[/yt]

    are harder than most other forms of 4/4 music, and much harder than any hard dance out there (and a lot of peeps into hard trance seem to slag psytrance off a lot). The structure is also a lot less predictable – one thing that pisses me off about other 4/4 dance music styles is that they have the same predictable build>breakdown>build-up>drop formula, which sounds very boring to me, not to mention fucking cheesy (seriously, build-ups are fucking lame, and the cheese that follows them is lamer – hard trance is a total culprit of this!).

    Meh, sorry if I’m being boring, I’m just truly perplexed as to why this style receives so much ridicule. IMO it’s one of the least cheesy types of electronic music out there, with some truly innovative production techniques, not to mention(for the most part) a really lovely form of fanbase who follow the ‘rave’ ethos of PLUR more so than any other underground scene.

    Discuss. ๐Ÿ˜‰

    #1236057
    Avatarp0ly
    Participant

    Since going to Symmetry last year i’m 100% up for the Psytrance scene with open arms, nothing i want more than a Psytrance crowd…. GET THOSE FUCKING DREADS OUT PEEPS.

    #1236058
    Avatarp0ly
    Participant

    Everyone i know into dance music loves psyt so dunno where you’re coming from ๐Ÿ˜‰

    #1236053
    Avatarspangle
    Participant

    I think some (closed minded) people see it as a bit too deep/trippy and weird to get in to and associated with magical pixies, fairies and the whole hippy mentality. This isn’t ‘cool’ when rave to them is just about hard and dirty and illegal instead of things like spirituality and ‘magic experiences’. A lot of my friends who are strictly into drum & bass especially, and some of the techno heads, will openly take the piss out of psy-trance and refuse to go near it without even knowing much about it for those reasons coz apparently it’s too soft and hippyish. This is a shame as some of it is really good music and the events and crowd that go with it have far more energy, creativity and positive vibes than other scenes (perhaps this is what puts some people off who just want boom boom in a skanky dark warehouse..)

    #1236061
    AvatarKodama
    Participant

    Fair shout, P0ly. ๐Ÿ˜€ I know I’m gonna sound like a cunt here, but I think it’s partly to do with the music ppl are exposed to – AFAIK the psy at Symmetry is of the mega cheesy kind, so maybe a lot of people have only heard this stuff and base their opinion of it solely on this style… and then when they hear the heavy stuff, they’ve immediately got this mental blockage going on, where they’ve already decided they don’t like psytrance so they block out even the gnarly stuff? Hmm…

    @spangle 423686 wrote:

    I think some (closed minded) people see it as a bit too deep/trippy and weird to get in to and associated with magical pixies, fairies and the whole hippy mentality. This isn’t ‘cool’ when rave to them is just about hard and dirty and illegal instead of things like spirituality and ‘magic experiences’. A lot of my friends who are strictly into drum & bass especially, and some of the techno heads, will openly take the piss out of psy-trance and refuse to go near it without even knowing much about it for those reasons coz apparently it’s too soft and hippyish. This is a shame as some of it is really good music and the events and crowd that go with it have far more energy, creativity and positive vibes than other scenes (perhaps this is what puts some people off who just want boom boom in a skanky dark warehouse..)

    Ahh, nice answer – cheers dude! I can totally see why people would be put off by the cosmic hippie vibes – I’m a dude with his foot solely planted in the logic plant pot and the cosmic 2012 fairy drivel does irk me somewhat. I just can’t get my head around the whole disliking positivity thing – don’t see why people would prefer to immerse themselves in unsafe vibes, esp. when the music can be just as hard, if not harder, at a psytrance event. Is fucking weird.

    #1236054
    Avatarspangle
    Participant

    @Kodama 423687 wrote:

    Ahh, nice answer – cheers dude! I can totally see why people would be put off by the cosmic hippie vibes – I’m a dude with his foot solely planted in the logic plant pot and the cosmic 2012 fairy drivel does irk me somewhat. I just can’t get my head around the whole disliking positivity thing – don’t see why people would prefer to immerse themselves in unsafe vibes, esp. when the music can be just as hard, if not harder, at a psytrance event. Is fucking weird.

    I don’t buy into whole cosmic hippie thing either, but it’s something different and positive and its nice to have around at an event. I think kids who grow up in some urban or suburban-wannabe-city environments often equate things like aggressiveness and law breaking with cool and fashionable and compete with music and free parties on how ‘dirty’ it is e.g. squats and dubstep – this all goes against the whole psy thing which thankfully is a little deeper

    #1236062
    AvatarKodama
    Participant

    Agreed, man – I guess it ain’t urban enough, hehe. And also agreed on the cosmic huppeh stuffs – even though it irks me, it definitely does bring lovely vibes. It’s a shame that people associate aggressiveness and law breaking with cool and fashionable – that, I think, is why orgs like Scum Tek have such a huge following, and the whole thuggish attitude of many attendees is probably quite a large part of the appeal, which is unfortunate as this shit brings negative attention to illegal parties as a whole. Ever since Scumoween, the psytrance scene has been negatively effected – week in, week out, venues are getting busted last minute, meaning the production ain’t half as good as it used to be “back in t’ day”.

    Anyhow, I’m goin’ off on a tangent… as always. ๐Ÿ˜€

    #1236051
    Avatarprocess
    Participant

    imo some of it is people who have too narrow minds or are unwilling to accept that other people may have different tastes to themselves so its easier to go along with the crowd and seem cool by not liking psy. obviously some people just dont like it. its also one of those things when you just look at a scene without actually getting to know it then it does all look the same, there all hippies etc because you havent spent the time to see the differences, in the music the different parties, different people that go etc. if your not familiar with something it is easy to just see it as a one dimentional thing and then judge it on that. i moved from the techno scene to psy and i used to slag psy off as well! :laugh_at:

    personally i wouldnt say psy isnt commercial, if commercial means to make money from it then imo its one of the most commercial underground styles of music. dont get me wrong i love seeing big names i wouldnt normally see and the nice decor and stuff, but 10-25 for a squat party is ridiculous. there seems like so much competition between organisers to put on a better party than the other promotor. Seems like there is no unity in the scene in that respect. id be just as happy to go listen to psy played by random dj’s or whatever that you dont have to fly in and that dont charge money, but are just simply playing because of the love of the music, it seems to me that when promotors bitch about you should expect to pay this much because it has to be worth while for us to put the party on and we have to pay for this guy and that guy.. what actually happened about doing the party for the love of the music?? not for the money. most techno party’s do this so i dont see what the difference is unless it is all about the money. i dont care who plays the music or really what the place looks like, i go there for the music.

    sorry bit of a rambling post to..

    #1236063
    AvatarKodama
    Participant

    Oh, I agree re: scene wars with the organisers; the competitive nature is a bit dry. That said, one of the reasons I love the psy scene is ‘cos of the whole live acts aspect. I absolutely adore the fact that I can see some of my fav. artists play in all of these crazy locations… it also gives me an idea of what sort of music will be at the party, thus determining whether I’m willing to venture into London or not. I dunno, I’m more than happy paying ยฃ10 for the production in the psy scene, and just about happy paying ยฃ15 if the party was ridiculously good (though would pay in excess if it was truly worth it – Echo Vortex, last April, was testament to that).

    I know it ain’t all profit-based though – my friend put on the Trancelucent Spirits party last year, they charged ยฃ10 entry fee, brought international artists over, and ended up losing ยฃ2,000. I dunno how many promoters actually make a profit, but I heard it’s actually more money to put on a psytrance party in a squat than it is a club. Kinda figures, seeing as you have to pay extra for security, pay for more artists due to longer running time, etc.

    Can totally see your way of thinking tho, dude.

    #1236044
    AvatarGeneral Lighting
    Moderator

    I don’t mind the music at all, but I knew over the years a fair few psy-trance DJ’s, promoters and fans and I’ve been really sceptical about how genuinely devoted all of them are to the “hippy” stuff. I’ve got nothing against that either, provided its genuine and not bullshit. However I’ve met a few psy-trance people whose “positivity” means they refuse to discuss or acknowledge any sort of “bad news”, such as how the Goa trance scene involved links with gangsters and corrupting the feds, and initially was almost neo-colonialism – after all how would they like it if loads of Indians bribed the Met to shift heroin in Uxbridge (I appreciate its a bit more integrated in recent times, but there’s still the issue that these and other foreign psy events sometimes take advantage of cops being too impotent to enforce drugs/licensing laws)

    Although psy-trance events are generally safer than those of other genres, I’m aware of unpleasant incidents still happening including sexual harrassment of girls and security using extreme violence to oust “unwanted” dealers (i.e those what haven’t paid off the promoters). I don’t just mean what happened with Venom, this shit was going on long before Venom even existed – also on occasions promoters fucked up and picked a warehouse in gang territory and this caused security issues.

    I’ve also always thought it a bit unfair that psy trance promoters had got away with blatantly holding what are quasi-commercial unlicensed events whereas everyone else has had to get licensed or risk getting their events locked off and their rigs confiscated.

    that said when I was more active in free parties from the late 90s/mid 2000s we’d quite often have a psy trance rig amongst all the others at SE England squat parties.

    #1236052
    Avatarprocess
    Participant

    @Kodama 423693 wrote:

    Oh, I agree re: scene wars with the organisers; the competitive nature is a bit dry. That said, one of the reasons I love the psy scene is ‘cos of the whole live acts aspect. I absolutely adore the fact that I can see some of my fav. artists play in all of these crazy locations… it also gives me an idea of what sort of music will be at the party, thus determining whether I’m willing to venture into London or not. I dunno, I’m more than happy paying ยฃ10 for the production in the psy scene, and just about happy paying ยฃ15 if the party was ridiculously good (though would pay in excess if it was truly worth it – Echo Vortex, last April, was testament to that).

    I know it ain’t all profit-based though – my friend put on the Trancelucent Spirits party last year, they charged ยฃ10 entry fee, brought international artists over, and ended up losing ยฃ2,000. I dunno how many promoters actually make a profit, but I heard it’s actually more money to put on a psytrance party in a squat than it is a club. Kinda figures, seeing as you have to pay extra for security, pay for more artists due to longer running time, etc.

    Can totally see your way of thinking tho, dude.

    yeah dont get me wrong i dont really mind paying that much as they do go to a lot of effort, but it just seems so fragmented, they hire the rig from this guy, pay this guy to do the decor, bring in artists from abroad, pay security, pay for squat to get opened etc. so different from techno parties where most of it is all the same crew, with dj’s all friends or guests from other rigs or even big names that shock horror actually come and play for free cause they love the scene and love to party.. and usually you know what sort of music will be played because of which rig is doing the party. just seems so money orientated and people will only go to the party if there favorite dj is playing, im sure the competition between promoters is part to blame for this as people can be very picky about who they see and where they go.. it can still be a good party if friends are playing big producers tunes, it doesnt actually have to be the guy that made them.. seems like people judge how good a party will be by how big the names are that are playing there… but i understand it is a different scene, and i do love it! raaa

    #1236056
    Avatarcheeseweasel
    Participant

    I wish I could get into psy trance but it all sounds the same to me. It’s ok in small doses I guess – I like the trippy sounds in it, and there are some interesting textures, but a lot of the time it’s like identikit dance music – that same popping kick drum that sounds like a wet fart that seems to be used on every track, and same bass sounds. Also it never breaks down, it’s just a relentless beat. I guess that’s part of the appeal.

    I go to a fair few psy nights and went to Boom 2008 as a few of my mates are really into it, so it’s not as if I’ve only heard one tune that I didn’t like and written off the whole genre. I just don’t like psy trance (and most of the pseudo-scientific hippy mystical stuff that comes with the scene). Sorry :hopeless:

    #1236045
    Avatarsinner69
    Participant

    for me psy-trance is a never-ending build up with no release and when its hard, it is hard the wrong way…it makes me aggressive, it makes me wanna fight, I get very annoyed of it when i think of it, I just want more, harder and more aso…but I cope if the party is good and make me forget that I cant stand the music…but I never listen…most my friends back in the days here in copenhagen was into psy-trance or goa…… I have been to many good psy-trance parties, and to be honest if the party is steaming good, they can play folk-music, 8-bit computer music etc if they want to to I will smile anyway ๐Ÿ™‚

    Ok, I must admit I have a weak spot for beat bizarre mainly because I know them and in some of my best party memories they played a live set…damn good one, outdoors in a forest….

    #1236064
    AvatarKodama
    Participant

    LOL@the music making you want to beat people up. How peculiar! Hahahaha, I never get that. o_O EVER. It makes me go absolutely wild, but always with a huge grin on my face, hehe.

    @cheeseweasel 423698 wrote:

    I wish I could get into psy trance but it all sounds the same to me. It’s ok in small doses I guess – I like the trippy sounds in it, and there are some interesting textures, but a lot of the time it’s like identikit dance music – that same popping kick drum that sounds like a wet fart that seems to be used on every track, and same bass sounds. Also it never breaks down, it’s just a relentless beat. I guess that’s part of the appeal.

    I go to a fair few psy nights and went to Boom 2008 as a few of my mates are really into it, so it’s not as if I’ve only heard one tune that I didn’t like and written off the whole genre. I just don’t like psy trance (and most of the pseudo-scientific hippy mystical stuff that comes with the scene). Sorry :hopeless:

    No worries, man! It’s not really a probe into why people don’t like the music (music’s such a subjective thing anyway) – and your reasons seem as valid as any. The lack of breakdown thing is definitely a huge appeal – after all, it’s trance music, and breakdowns IMO are the biggest trance-destroyer (which is why other forms of trance can be quite a misnomer in regards to the name and what it actually does). I dunno, it just works so well with acid, having a relentless beat… I feel bored on a dance floor when there’s a breakdown, and I find build-ups so contrived, like the track is forcing me to dance, and that puts me off straight away… I find that aspect in other dance music a bit identikit (exactly the same formula in every track).

    Fair shout, tho. ๐Ÿ™‚

    Oh and General Lightning – sexual harrassment? Ouch – that’s fucking shit! I’m definitely not saying the psy scene is free from this shit – when something is carried out illegally, there are bound to be dodgy elements unfortunately. And I can also see the exploitation part you speak of – I do wonder how a lot of the Indian people feel about a bunch of drugged-up hippies stealing ‘their’ imagery. ๐Ÿ˜›

    #1236046
    Avatarsinner69
    Participant

    I forgot to mention(I am talking of dk) that I have worked(not partying) on several full-on and psy trance parties but since 5 years back there was a change that made me stop, too much fighting, too many weapons, and too many people hospitalised(both drugs and violence)…It wasn’t fun anymore…

    #1236065
    AvatarKodama
    Participant

    Wow, that sounds nasty. Is it a phenomena only found in the psy scene or is it pervasive?

    Btw, Denmark is home to my fav. label, Parvati Records. ๐Ÿ˜€ ๐Ÿ˜€

    #1236047
    Avatarsinner69
    Participant

    I work on other parties and they have a lower number of hot heads and that means less trouble, I am in production and when I get difficulties to do my job and have to deal with ambulances because people cant find out of taking care of each other, or I have to be followed by security when i move stuff or correct a lamp or what ever…no money in the world can make work in those conditions…other parties I do not have those problems…

    #1236048
    Avatarsinner69
    Participant

    I have seen that parvati some where, do you know iboga records?

    #1236070
    Avatarcozmic
    Participant

    @Kodama 423682 wrote:

    are harder than most other forms of 4/4 music, and much harder than any hard dance out there (and a lot of peeps into hard trance seem to slag psytrance off a lot). The structure is also a lot less predictable – one thing that pisses me off about other 4/4 dance music styles is that they have the same predictable build>breakdown>build-up>drop formula, which sounds very boring to me, not to mention fucking cheesy (seriously, build-ups are fucking lame, and the cheese that follows them is lamer – hard trance is a total culprit of this!).

    Discuss. ๐Ÿ˜‰

    Theres plenty of cheese free trance out there if you look deep enough mate.

    I try to look for different not your typical sounds and structures that are being rinsed by the big name DJ’s.

    For the Techy edge stuff, try Gatty or Busho. For Hard Trance, Wragg and Log-One or Nomad.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0HNrPsPnX0

    raaa

    I like Psy and Hard Trance btw.

    #1236066
    AvatarKodama
    Participant

    ^^^ I still found that kinda cheesy tbh. Don’t get me wrong, the production is solid and the kick and bass are tight and hard-hitting, but all those breakdowns and hands-in-the-air melodies, and the singing… that’s the sort of thing I find a bit cringe worthy tbh. I guess my definition of cheesiness is making comparisons with Israeli-style psytrance, and I find these hard dance styles a little too close to the Israeli psy formula, just with different stylistics. :s Will check out the other stuff you mentioned though.

    @!sinner69! 423706 wrote:

    I have seen that parvati some where, do you know iboga records?

    Yeah man, I like a bit of Ace Ventura…

    I am honestly surprised to hear that the psy scene has more violence and bad goings on compared to other scenes. Is it a case of ‘undesirables’ entering the scene, or is this violence among people actually into psytrance? I’d find it hard to see how it’d be actual psy people fighting, esp. when the psytrance subculture is centred around psychedelic drugs, and the last thing people want to do while tripping ballz is fight, not to mention the fact that psytrance is full of hippies…

    #1236071
    Avatarcozmic
    Participant

    @Kodama 423717 wrote:

    ^^^ I still found that kinda cheesy tbh. Don’t get me wrong, the production is solid and the kick and bass are tight and hard-hitting, but all those breakdowns and hands-in-the-air melodies, and the singing… that’s the sort of thing I find a bit cringe worthy tbh. I guess my definition of cheesiness is making comparisons with Israeli-style psytrance, and I find these hard dance styles a little too close to the Israeli psy formula, just with different stylistics. :s Will check out the other stuff you mentioned though.

    Yeah man, I like a bit of Ace Ventura…

    I am honestly surprised to hear that the psy scene has more violence and bad goings on compared to other scenes. Is it a case of ‘undesirables’ entering the scene, or is this violence among people actually into psytrance? I’d find it hard to see how it’d be actual psy people fighting, esp. when the psytrance subculture is centred around psychedelic drugs, and the last thing people want to do while tripping ballz is fight, not to mention the fact that psytrance is full of hippies…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92eUU2TNnQc

    #1236049
    Avatarsinner69
    Participant

    @Kodama 423717 wrote:

    I am honestly surprised to hear that the psy scene has more violence and bad goings on compared to other scenes. Is it a case of ‘undesirables’ entering the scene, or is this violence among people actually into psytrance? I’d find it hard to see how it’d be actual psy people fighting, esp. when the psytrance subculture is centred around psychedelic drugs, and the last thing people want to do while tripping ballz is fight, not to mention the fact that psytrance is full of hippies…

    when you look at the scene as whole those so called hippies are outnumbered…

    #1236067
    AvatarKodama
    Participant

    @cozmik 423718 wrote:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92eUU2TNnQc

    Prefer this one to the last one – it defos ain’t as cheesy. Not really into it tho… ‘s just one of those things, I guess. ๐Ÿ™‚

    @!sinner69! 423719 wrote:

    when you look at the scene as whole those so called hippies are outnumbered…

    Hmm, I dunno. I know a lot of people who aren’t hippie image-wise, but their outlook on life is most definitely hippie. I guess it changes from country to country though…

    #1236059
    Avatarp0ly
    Participant

    Kodama likes to moan about all types of music but his own psychedelic preference ๐Ÿ˜› ๐Ÿ˜› ๐Ÿ˜›

    IT’S CHEESYYYY.

    and you posted a Darkpsy tune! (not that i dislike darkpsy btw)

    #1236068
    AvatarKodama
    Participant

    Hahahaha, man, what can I say, I’m a cunt… ๐Ÿ˜€

    And yah, the video’s dark psy, which is still a type of psytrance, innit. ๐Ÿ˜›

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