Forums The Vibe Chat Mephedrone – Methadrone – Meow – Miaow – 4-MMC

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  • #1182876
    DaftFader
    Participant

      @General Lighting 376703 wrote:

      possibly a mixture of alcohol and stimulants. I know of one local lad who has twice ended up in the Emergency Department just through MDMA…

      my NHS sources tell me that party drugs overdoses are way more common than many realise…

      but for them to both die? I mean i’m not saing it doesn’t happen .. but as i said to my friend this morning … there definatly has to be otehr factors involved unless they did ridiculas amounts of meth as the fact they both died pretty much rules out an underlying condition

      #1184115
      Clusterfrog
      Participant

        @General Lighting 376700 wrote:

        this was the case until the 1920s but people still overdosed.. there’d be slightly less but you’d still get greedy folk. The only advantage is some of the revenue could be ring fenced to pay for the NHS..

        IMO what is holding back legalisation in Europe isn’t just religious or political dogma but the reality that the bulk of the populace do not actually take drugs at all, but still have to pay their taxes towards funding the public health service, so idiots what overdo it cost them money for no gain…

        I don’t think that’s true, I know so many people who think 1-2 grams of mephedrone is ‘the usual amount’ and have no idea that the suggested dose is 125-250mg. This is true for most drugs people just eyeball lines and pop as many pills as they want until they’ve had too much and are eating their face off.. just because they buy their shit from a dealer who doesnt consider it his responsibility to educate the users

        yeah people overdosed back when drugs were available from pharmacies but proper production, controlled distribution and education would reduce the current problems significantly. Yes some people would still die but that’s the price you pay for civil liberty.
        People still overdose on alcohol and die on a daily basis, and people eat and drink and smoke themselves to an early grave costing the NHS billions, the only difference with drugs is that conservative types think they are somehow less moral and the rest of the population think they are more dangerous, thanks to unscientific media bullshit.
        I wouldnt mind so much if alcohol was illegal too, it’s the hypocrisy that pisses me off. And dont even get me started on the harm that drugs legislation causes to society by ruining peoples careers and creating drugs gangs.

        #1181971
        General Lighting
        Moderator

          @DaftFader 376705 wrote:

          but for them to both die? I mean i’m not saing it doesn’t happen .. but as i said to my friend this morning … there definatly has to be otehr factors involved unless they did ridiculas amounts of meth as the fact they both died pretty much rules out an underlying condition

          its quite possible they did ridiculous amounts..

          I was at a Norfolk rave a couple of years ago and a lad there said how many people had died on the scene, it was as many as 10, half of them were through road traffic collisions but the other half through overdoses :hopeless:

          Now both Labour and the Tories are saying they are going to speed up the process of getting the ACMD to report on the drug – so no matter who gets in at the election I expect it will be class B by year end (probably just before the Xmas party season) or early 2011

          #1181972
          General Lighting
          Moderator

            if todays Europeans actually cared about others’ civil liberties (particularly groups whose activities they do not agree with) we wouldn’t be seeing the kind of election results I’ve seen across the EU. As the economic depression bites further, all they care about are their nearest and dearest and the pound/euro in their pockets. I know more and more otherwise tolerant/progressive people who are increasingly fucked off with the “amount of money spent on clearing up after drugs and alcohol use” and who support increasing restrictions on legal and illegal drugs including alcohol and tobacco.

            @Iacchus 376708 wrote:

            I don’t think that’s true, I know so many people who think 1-2 grams of mephedrone is ‘the usual amount’ and have no idea that the suggested dose is 125-250mg. This is true for most drugs people just eyeball lines and pop as many pills as they want until they’ve had too much and are eating their face off.. just because they buy their shit from a dealer who doesnt consider it his responsibility to educate the users

            the same dose is actually applicable to amfetamines – but there are resources like this site which has been around for 12 years, independent of cops/feds/government and the advice is still ignored. in the early days of mephedrone you had (and in many case still do) order it online and so the access to independent info is already there!

            Quote:
            [
            People still overdose on alcohol and die on a daily basis, and people eat and drink and smoke themselves to an early grave costing the NHS billions, the only difference with drugs is that conservative types think they are somehow less moral and the rest of the population think they are more dangerous, thanks to unscientific media bullshit.

            I wouldnt mind so much if alcohol was illegal too, it’s the hypocrisy that pisses me off. And dont even get me started on the harm that drugs legislation causes to society by ruining peoples careers and creating drugs gangs.

            The ultra conservatives, particulalry those linked to faith groups, would restrict or ban alcohol too…

            TBH the whole mephedrone phenomenon is a fucking epic train wreck, where the so-called “alternative” community has shown itself wholly incapable once again of self-regulation, leading the nanny state to pick up the pieces..

            #1181973
            General Lighting
            Moderator

              The clock is ticking.. John Major’s government first started speeding up the legislative process and Blair and Brown have made it even faster..

              Govt To ‘Act Quickly’ On Mephedrone Ban – Yahoo! News UK

              Home Office minister Alan Campbell said: “We will receive the ACMD advice on March 29 and subject to this advice we will take immediate action.

              “We are determined to act swiftly but it is important we consider independent expert advice to stop organised criminals exploiting loopholes by simply switching to a different but similar compound.”

              #1181974
              General Lighting
              Moderator

                cops are looking at the possibility of contamination, the arrests have been on suspicion of supplying controlled substances…

                in other parts of the UK there have been allegation that some mephedrone in fact is contaminated with dexamfetamine, BZP, MDMA and other “real” drugs which would of course increase the risk of serious cardiovascular problems (dangerously elevanted heart rate) – I think this might probably be more the case with street dealers (who don’t always bother with “nerdy” stuff such as safe chemical handling, correct labelling and preventing accidental mixing) than online dealers (who must comply with H & S laws to get the stuff through the post, and would hardly want to get sent to jail for posting controlled substances!)

                #1186060
                Mary Jane
                Participant

                  Two seperate paps (a broadsheet and a shit one) are suggesting that they had shed loads to drink, took mephedrone and then went on to take metheonde to come down.

                  I think taking just the methedone and crazy amounts of booze is a bonkers idea- let alone chucking mephedrone into the pot.

                  Given the circumstances of this case, i would be willing to show my arse in B ‘n’ M Bargains window (any, take yer pick) on a sat afternoon if the post mortem states that mephedrone and mephedrone alone caused the deaths. Even if they cained loads i reck its not the case.

                  #1181975
                  General Lighting
                  Moderator

                    @Mary Jane 376722 wrote:

                    Given the circumstances of this case, i would be willing to show my arse in B ‘n’ M Bargains window (any, take yer pick) on a sat afternoon if the post mortem states that mephedrone and mephedrone alone caused the deaths. Even if they cained loads i reck its not the case.

                    it doesn’t matter to the media and the authorities. They have the power, they have the bulk of public opinion behind them (the majority community of non recreational drug users) and can do what the fuck they want.

                    Also that level of crazy poly-drug use is commonplace amongst younger teenagers. Many of them walk away from sites like this as “too boring and sensible” as soon as the older folks start taking them to task for overuse and and feel they are indestructible.

                    whilst responsible 20/30-something drug users with families/careers etc and stable lifestyles like ourselves do exist we are increasingly becoming a dwindling minority. I know more people my age group what are turning to faith groups and conservative lifestyles (especially to gain stability in their lifes as the economy declines) than wanting to continue partying…

                    #1186034
                    blueone
                    Participant

                      I got some today and took a line. A feel a bit hyper but thats it. Nothing has happened other then shaking my leg and a smelly nostril.

                      Is this because I have ADHD? From what I have heard people who have ADHD have to take a lot to get more effect. But I’d rather hear from more experienced user before I snort the whole packet.

                      #1182559
                      GiantMidget
                      Participant

                        I read today about the two lads and it’s bad they died but they kind of had it coming tbh.

                        According to news programs They were extremely pissed, took a load of drone (they blatantly abused it) and then to top it off they took fucking methadone, What the hell did they think would happen?????

                        #1181976
                        General Lighting
                        Moderator

                          now the torygraph is claiming that everyone takes methadone to come down off mephedrone!

                          Also now all three political parties are taking a anti-drugs stance, with the LibDems berating Labour for getting rid of Professor Nutt claiming if they hadn’t done so that it would have made it quicker to make mephedrone illegal..

                          #1184116
                          Clusterfrog
                          Participant

                            @General Lighting 376711 wrote:

                            the same dose is actually applicable to amfetamines – but there are resources like this site which has been around for 12 years, independent of cops/feds/government and the advice is still ignored. in the early days of mephedrone you had (and in many case still do) order it online and so the access to independent info is already there!

                            The ultra conservatives, particulalry those linked to faith groups, would restrict or ban alcohol too…

                            TBH the whole mephedrone phenomenon is a fucking epic train wreck, where the so-called “alternative” community has shown itself wholly incapable once again of self-regulation, leading the nanny state to pick up the pieces..

                            If you asked any of the ravers I know what the dose of and ‘old’ drug like MDMA is they would not say ‘100mg’, they would say ‘you dab/bomb it till you’re high enough’
                            yes the information is there on the internet if you know where to look (ive been a drug user for 10 years but only the last couple of years discovered Erowid/PV/Bluelight/PIHKAL/TIHKAL, got scales and started measuring my doses, and im the only person in my group of friends who does that)

                            Even if you know about these websites its a whole world apart from your drug coming in capsules of one dose and health warnings printed all over the packet and ‘never exceed the stated dose’ mentality drummed in from an early age as with prescription drugs. The fact that most mephedrone users who cain a gram a night themselves have probably never taken more paracetamol than they are supposed to will back up my point.

                            I’d agree the whole mephedrone thing has been an epic train wreck and the greedy users will be to blame for its inevitable banning, but I think it wouldnt have to be that way if it was released as a new pharmaceutical drugs with proper education, on a society that has been educated at school with the REAL facts about drugs, instead of scare stories that people soon learn are bollocks, resulting in people ignoring all health advice about drugs

                            I really wish when I bought my first g of ketamine it said on the packet ‘do not mix with alcohol’, or when I bought my first tab of acid it said on the packet ‘do not take alone at a squat party at 7am when you have to drive home at some point that day’
                            Pretty much all the danger I’ve ever been in from drugs has been to poor education, not from the toxicity of the chemical itself.

                            Wishful thinking on my part, I know this sort of shift in attitude to drugs would be impossible in one giant step, but it will happen eventually, only not in my lifetime

                            #1181977
                            General Lighting
                            Moderator

                              @Iacchus 376739 wrote:

                              Even if you know about these websites its a whole world apart from your drug coming in capsules of one dose and health warnings printed all over the packet and ‘never exceed the stated dose’ mentality drummed in from an early age as with prescription drugs. The fact that most mephedrone users who cain a gram a night themselves have probably never taken more paracetamol than they are supposed to will back up my point.

                              Although BZP was nasty stuff and we’re better rid of it, when it was “legal” most packs I saw of it had dosage info (which was regularly ignored and led to people getting into rare old states).

                              I also remember fairly accurate info about drugs (including good and bad news) being available as long ago as the late 1980s – everything from the “little red school book” to Andrew Tyler’s “Street Drugs”.

                              in the last 3 years I have been raving with a mostly younger crowd who have access to accurate independent information but choose to ignore it. TBH I think there are deeper and much bleaker psychological reasons involved but its pushing the chances of tolerance and decriminalisation even further away.

                              In fact I could see things getting more hardline along the lines of SE Asia – of course not the death penalty as EU law discourages it but the Section 37 Hospital Order being increasingly used or amended to force stubborn drug users into abstinence-based treatment.

                              #1182232
                              starlaugh
                              Participant

                                @GiantMidget 376734 wrote:

                                According to news programs They were extremely pissed, took a load of drone (they blatantly abused it) and then to top it off they took fucking methadone, What the hell did they think would happen?????

                                I got into a debate about this at work today as I heard they had been taking Methadone, I think this combined with the booze and drone caused them to fook up. In the end I admitted to dabbling with it as they would only believe what they read in the papers. It would be better saying “2 lads die from a cocktail of drugs” not just blaming the drone.

                                @Iacchus 376739 wrote:

                                I’d agree the whole mephedrone thing has been an epic train wreck and the greedy users will be to blame for its inevitable banning, but I think it wouldnt have to be that way if it was released as a new pharmaceutical drugs with proper education, on a society that has been educated at school with the REAL facts about drugs, instead of scare stories that people soon learn are bollocks, resulting in people ignoring all health advice about drugs

                                I was lucky as we had pretty good drugs education at school during our PSHE (Personal Social & Health Education) lessons. A couple of coppers came in to see us and had a metal brief case type thing that when opened had a load of drugs paraphernalia and the likes behind thick glass for us to look at. Also contained a couple of drugs (not sure if real or not, we were told they were).

                                Also at the local youth club we were given leaflets about drugs, they took the stance that “you are young and are going to experiment so be safe” and they talked about dosages / effects / how long it will last and how long come up – plateau – come down lasted

                                #1182233
                                starlaugh
                                Participant

                                  Could this see a rise of the better known ‘rugs?

                                  #1181979
                                  General Lighting
                                  Moderator

                                    @starlaugh 376779 wrote:

                                    Could this see a rise of the better known ‘rugs?

                                    I doubt it as SOCA will be geared up to combat this, plus the whole reason that MDMA became scarce in the first place was that both Eastern and Western governments were working together to successfully stopping the precursor chemicals in Asia. The foreign governments now treat drug manufacture as a global problem rather than tolerating or even colluding in it which is what previously happened, as billions of pounds of global trade are at stake.

                                    By the time mephedrone is banned we may also have a different government, many of whom aren’t much older than myself and saw both the good and bad sides of the rave/drugs culture of the 1990s, and will be much better at stopping a resurgence in it than the “out of touch” older politicians of 20 years ago…

                                    #1182560
                                    GiantMidget
                                    Participant

                                      @General Lighting 376716 wrote:

                                      The clock is ticking.. John Major’s government first started speeding up the legislative process and Blair and Brown have made it even faster..

                                      Govt To ‘Act Quickly’ On Mephedrone Ban – Yahoo! News UK

                                      I’m glad that report wasn’t the typical scaremongering we’ve seen from other sources.

                                      One thing I hate about the UK’s media is false facts and information. Which you typically find in rags such as The Sun. :crazy_diz

                                      #1186010
                                      Kikoyo
                                      Participant

                                        Not long to go till its banned. few months at tops i recon

                                        #1181980
                                        General Lighting
                                        Moderator

                                          from what the reports are saying the decision to ban it is already made, the extra discussion appears to be what class it will be put in – I expect it will be made class “B” as making it “A” could possibly create an initial rise in MDMA importing/production until SOCA put a stop to this.

                                          I expect by autumn this year or early next year it will be classified along with any other similar substances (perhaps any derivative of a cathinone) – added to this will be clampdowns on the late night economy including mainstream pubs and clubs opening late so as to “reduce demand” – we will end up like it was when I was 15 or so where everything shut at midnight and if you were still on the streets a bobby would have a word with you!

                                          #1182562
                                          GiantMidget
                                          Participant

                                            @starlaugh 376775 wrote:

                                            I got into a debate about this at work today as I heard they had been taking Methadone, I think this combined with the booze and drone caused them to fook up. In the end I admitted to dabbling with it as they would only believe what they read in the papers. It would be better saying “2 lads die from a cocktail of drugs” not just blaming the drone.

                                            I wonder if we would see the same mass media hysteria if the lads had died from Coke, booze and methadone?

                                            tbh I think not. :crazy_diz

                                            #1181981
                                            General Lighting
                                            Moderator

                                              @GiantMidget 376797 wrote:

                                              I wonder if we would see the same mass media hysteria if the lads had died from Coke, booze and methadone?

                                              tbh I think not. :crazy_diz

                                              Not quite as much but it would still make the local papers, details would be shared between NHS and Police via the DAAT (Drugs and Alcohol Action Team) and it would shape enforcement at a local level.

                                              Ironically fuckloads people die from poly drug abuse all the time and unless they are celebs or it is sudden (such as a businessman or a talented artist/performer) they don’t get all that much media coverage. Life is cheap if someone isn’t viewed as a contributor to society.

                                              #1185210
                                              Buzz
                                              Participant

                                                tbh, it looks like we’re going to have a hung parliament….which will probably mean that labour with form a pact with the lib dems, i could see this being pretty benefitial to recreational drug users.

                                                #1181982
                                                General Lighting
                                                Moderator

                                                  @Buzz 376802 wrote:

                                                  tbh, it looks like we’re going to have a hung parliament….which will probably mean that labour with form a pact with the lib dems, i could see this being pretty benefitial to recreational drug users.

                                                  not when today the current Labour Government is reducing some of the timescale of debate for this issue, and a Lib Dems MP berated Labour for sacking Professor Nutt with the argument that it could have made it easier to make mephedrone illegal!

                                                  #1184117
                                                  Clusterfrog
                                                  Participant

                                                    @General Lighting 376750 wrote:

                                                    Although BZP was nasty stuff and we’re better rid of it, when it was “legal” most packs I saw of it had dosage info (which was regularly ignored and led to people getting into rare old states).

                                                    I also remember fairly accurate info about drugs (including good and bad news) being available as long ago as the late 1980s – everything from the “little red school book” to Andrew Tyler’s “Street Drugs”.

                                                    in the last 3 years I have been raving with a mostly younger crowd who have access to accurate independent information but choose to ignore it. TBH I think there are deeper and much bleaker psychological reasons involved but its pushing the chances of tolerance and decriminalisation even further away.

                                                    In fact I could see things getting more hardline along the lines of SE Asia – of course not the death penalty as EU law discourages it but the Section 37 Hospital Order being increasingly used or amended to force stubborn drug users into abstinence-based treatment.

                                                    yes there has always been information ‘available’ but as drugs are either illegal or ‘not for human consumption’, and always dissaproved of by society, people are already in the mindstate of ignoring the rules, whearas in a framework of legal/approved consumption people will be a lot more likely to listen to advice.

                                                    Agree developing countries will probably go through englands current phase of ‘ban everything!!!’ but liberalism is the ultimate destination of society, even if it’s not for thousands of years.. there is hope though, countries like USA and portugal have started moving towards decriminalisation of some things..

                                                    #1181983
                                                    General Lighting
                                                    Moderator

                                                      @Iacchus 376859 wrote:

                                                      Agree developing countries will probably go through englands current phase of ‘ban everything!!!’ but liberalism is the ultimate destination of society, even if it’s not for thousands of years.. there is hope though, countries like USA and portugal have started moving towards decriminalisation of some things..

                                                      “Developing” countries have got to a much better economic state than England by taking a hardline on drugs.

                                                      Both US and Portugals liberalism have been countered by a backlash from the conservative faith groups. The Dutch, who are a pragmatic and intelligent race of people, have chosen to vote away their progressive government in recent elections.

                                                      Its perfectly legal and much more socially acceptable to ride a bicycle in this country but there are some parts of the nation where you will get a lot of abuse and/or even be put in physical danger by others – people are much more willing to take matters into their own hands against those doing anything they disagree with.

                                                      There was a portugese girl on here a few years back who said “yes, drugs are “tolerated” in her country” – but her parents had put their feet down and said she should have a drugs test at the family home every semester if she expected them to fund her University studies! She was otherwise well treated, so she accepted her parents views and left Partyvibe. I got the impression that sort of thing was commonplace in the country, and that although drugs weren’t illegal, those who took them are still viewed as deviants and losers. (this view is also rising in the Netherlands!)

                                                      if things were better there, our events section and the forum would be full of Portugese! Actually my mates mum lives up there and the impression I get is they are simply too poor and too busy with hard work (farming etc) to have time to cane drugs like we do in England.

                                                      I don’t think I need to explain at length what the religious wingnuts of the USA are capable of (bear in mind nice Mr Obama might only last one term and he will do well to stay alive!)

                                                      On a wider scale, there’s also a good chance humankind will fuck up the planet to such an extent it renders even the imperfect freedoms of today impossible – there will be little time left to get high or to have liberal politics when everyone has to toil in the fields and factories just to have sufficient resources to feed their family..

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