Forums The Vibe Chat Important to all drivers and those planning on ever driving!

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  • #1040102
    jed_22
    Participant

      The following is about the new road taxes seen it earlier add your buds and sign the petition if you agree with scrapping them.

      Please forward to everyone you know that owns a car, or has owned a car, or is thinking of owning one in the future.

      After paying:

      Road Fund Licence (Tax…for having a car)
      Fuel Duty (Tax….for using fuel in your car)
      Parking fines (Tax because councils don’t provide enough parking)
      Fixed Penalty notices (Tax for getting caught, momentarily exceeding the
      speed limit)

      The Government are now taking the “P” if they think we are going to take “Mileage Tax” lying down!! Join us in trying to stop the “Prince of Darkness (AKA – Gordon Brown) squeezing more out of your wallets!! I don’t know about you, but I could not do my job if I had to rely on Public Transport…it would be physically impossible.

      So if you want to do something about it sign up, and have your voice heard! The government’s proposal to introduce road pricing will mean you having to purchase a tracking device for your car and paying a monthly bill to use it.

      The tracking device will cost about £200 and in a recent study by the BBC,the lowest monthly bill was £28 for a rural florist and £194 for a delivery driver.
      A non working Mum who used the car to take the kids to school paid £86 in one month.

      On top of this massive increase in tax, you will be tracked. Somebody will know where you are at all times. They will also know how fast you have been going, so even if you accidentally creep over a speed limit you can expect a fine and 3 points with your monthly bill.

      If you care about our freedoms and stopping the constant bashing of the car driver, please sign the petition on No 10’s new website http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/

      #1096561
      globalloon
      Participant

        my understanding was that this was in place of vehicle duty and therefore much fairer

        #1096565
        Raj
        Participant

          still dont like the idea of trackers and this was trialled in germany not that long ago [it was given up as being a totally impractical idea btw]

          this is the carrot and stick award to motoring – lets stick it to them and hope they will not complain while not improving the public transport so its attractive to use [the carrot] because that might actually cost money:you_crazy:you_crazy:you_crazy

          #1096562
          Anonymous

            i have never been a fan of the car, roads seem liek a pisstake to me, the ammount of space they take up. but recently cos of gigging i need a car, so im on the long road to lisencehood.

            im aware that having one is getting more and more expensive, and while it makes me think twice at getting one, what i initially think is : great!

            cars are one of the biggest killers in this country, they are run on pikey disgusting fuel, fuck up the air, take up all the space, they use a huge ammount of energy to be scrapped, and they are one of the more despicable signs of capitalism. people should have to pay through the nose to have one.

            it pisses me off when people act like they have a right to drive. a lot of the world cant afford to eat, and you complain about having to pay to have such a ridiculous contraption? perspective. soemones gotta pay for all that waste.

            #1096566
            Raj
            Participant

              I see your point but as I live in the sticks and there are 3 buses a day which I can catch to go anywhere [but only 2 offer me any chance of getting back the same day] I cant see a way round having a car…

              To get rid of cars would, without the provision of some alternative, mean anyone who happens to live in a rural area would be stuck in a 10 mile radius of where they lived [ as there is little or no alternative means of transport in many rural areas.

              To my mind what is offensive is the number of cars stuck in city traffic with one person in them – in cities there are alternatives to using cars after all- why does no one car share?

              #1096567
              Raj
              Participant

                And in rural areas we already pay through the nose for the use of a car as our fuel prices can be up to 10p a litre higher than in cities because of the ‘greater transport costs of getting it here’ and the fact they know we are a captive market with little or no choice as to where we can buy it:hopeless:

                #1096559
                General Lighting
                Moderator

                  even if you don’t want to drive all the time or don’t like the idea of the overuse of cars this particular scheme is dangerous..

                  it will push up costs of all goods and will cause short term economic losses in local areas that reduce the money available to invest in better alternatives.

                  the rich will whinge but most will grudgingly pay up and carry on as before (unless they want to leave the UK altogether)

                  I expect families will scrape together the cash for essential trips and there might be a slight increase in walking/cycling to school or (more likely) kids being crammed onto ropey old school buses –

                  but many kids will miss out on long distance social activities and outings due to costs of travel (even school trips – the scheme’s extra costs could mean education authorities may limit non-essential travel as well)

                  the tracking is really dodgy – it would also mean cops would have carte blanche to stop and search vehicles which did not provide the correct “tracking signals” – although I don’t think this is “part of the conspiracy” at a stroke it would make it very simple to pick off travelling communities, ravers etc – in fact anyone who refused to comply.

                  once such technology is in position it could be used as subtle “Area denial technology” and could be used to deter such things as young people driving around at night – it would be a disaster IMO for nightlife if used by a govt which did not agree with the late night economy (for instance all vehicles within a certain radius of a rave venue being checked and searched)

                  Also roads could increasingly be built as “revenue-generating” PFI projects –

                  IMO its more free market fundamentalism mixed with social control, monitoring and conditioning being “greenwashed” as protecting the environment….

                  #1096568
                  jed_22
                  Participant

                    I agree its not just the additional cost of driving, it just gives the police and government even more power over us

                    #1096563
                    magneze
                    Participant

                      Car use in cities is unsustainable – this sort of legislation is inevitable really. Public transport also needs improvement but unless you actually force people out of their cars my feeling is that they’ll keep on using them.

                      #1096560
                      General Lighting
                      Moderator
                        magneze wrote:
                        Car use in cities is unsustainable – this sort of legislation is inevitable really. Public transport also needs improvement but unless you actually force people out of their cars my feeling is that they’ll keep on using them.

                        this is true (BTW I am an ex-Londoner who has seen London’s congestion at its worst before the charge) – but tracking and pricing won’t force everyone out of their cars…. people are stubborn, particularly if they have the resources to bend the rules or get round the restraints (after all isn’t that what most ravers are doing with unlicensed parties?)

                        think about it this way.

                        A Jag, Roller, Merc or any similar motor is fucking expensive.

                        It costs loads to run.

                        If you park it in any dodgy part of Londonistan any of these things may happen:

                        a] it will get stolen or you may get carjacked for it…
                        b] some envious person will key it, smash it up / torch it / explode it with a firework-based device (happened to some Merc owner south of the river a few months ago!)
                        c] it loses value from the day you buy it
                        d] if you don’t “fit in” to the tolerated stereotype of a high-value vehicle owner (like if you are not white/foreign looking) the black rats (traffic cops) will be on your case watching if you speed anyway

                        but it doesn’t stop people in the capital from buying and driving flash motors, and nor will road pricing.

                        A lot of toffs already have trackers in their cars installed anyway because they are para in case some toerags try and nick the vehicle (or to keep track on their partners etc for good or bad reasons) (people with money are worried about kidnappings these days)

                        they will pay up and accept the controls but people like the group of youths who want to drive to a rave will find it more difficult (think how easy it would be to head off, split and search groups attending raves if lots of cars had trackers!)

                        I’m all for saving the environment (I don’t own a car myself and at present don’t need one to work/live) but is it worth sacrificing so much freedom in this manner?

                        The scheme could easily be hijacked to privatise the roads and deny certain groups access to free transport if/when another less tolerant government is elected. It would require more cameras as well (in fact I reckon the plans for trackers would be abandoned in favour of the “less intrusive” idea of extra cameras) and these can also be used to watch people on bikes or on foot!

                        I would rather see military spend or that spent on social control diverted to public transport infrastructure than this scheme – too many freedoms at risk here.

                        #1096564
                        magneze
                        Participant

                          I see what you mean. It’s has potential for misuse. However, it is going to take drastic measures to stop the growth of personal transportation – clean fuel will only go so far – congestion will still be a problem.

                          Something else that should definitely be looked at is the effect of the “school run”. My bus to/from work over the last couple of days has been incredibly speedy – there’s no traffic at all. The difference: loads of schools are off. :crazy:

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                        Forums The Vibe Chat Important to all drivers and those planning on ever driving!