Forums The Vibe Chat DE : 17 killed in Loveparade stampede

Viewing 11 posts - 1 through 11 (of 11 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #1049455
    General Lighting
    Moderator

      This is really worrying, and completely out of character for Germany (where just last week a entire motorway was shut down for a streetparty with a similar number of people without any incidents or casualties). WTF is happening in Europe these days? this isn’t some kids having a unlicensed party but something what has happened for over a decade…

      15 killed in German Love Parade – Yahoo! News UK

      BBC News – German Love Parade festival stampede kills 15

      und auf Deutsch

      Report: Tunnel als Falle – Loveparade gerät zum Horror – Service – sueddeutsche.de

      #1227868
      GiantMidget
      Participant

        Just saw this on the news. Fucking terrible. :hopeless:

        #1227869
        joshd96320
        Participant

          just heard about this. :(. in all fairness sounds badly organised if theres only one in/out point

          #1227863
          General Lighting
          Moderator

            @joshd96320 392312 wrote:

            just heard about this. :(. in all fairness sounds badly organised if theres only one in/out point

            exactly. Those are not words I normally associate with Germany (having once worked closely alongside various Germans on complex IT/electronics projects for some years)

            I think it shouldn’t have been moved out of Berlin (the UK equivalent would be something shifting the Notting Hill Carnival to Yarmouth :crazy_diz) over the years there have been arguments because its a free event and the German taxpayer paid lots of €€€ to subsidise it, yet its predominantly for younger folk (unlike last weekends Autobahn-festival which was aimed at everyone, and even that had to be restricted due to the number of cyclists!)

            so it was shifted to a “cheaper” area with the organisers shouldering more of the costs. if you look at where Duisburg is and consider many dance music events have been cancelled in NL since the politics there shifted to the right, its not surprising the numbers were swelled this year (just as how unlicensed raves have shifted to SE England as the East went zero tolerance)

            as it costs even more public money to deal with disasters and serious crimes, IMO the whole EU should move to a strategy of encouraging smaller events of 500-1000 people in local areas (by making them easier to license) in place of too large events with safety problems..

            #1227870
            joshd96320
            Participant

              so all in all poor risk assessment, with management being too cheap.

              i wonder if eastek had any similar problems

              #1227864
              General Lighting
              Moderator

                true, but bear in mind Germany’s history.

                In England the govt would put their foot down and have refused the event license ages ago on health and safety grounds or demanded it was run on a commercial footing, if not via entry charges via obtaining sufficient sponsorship to pay for public sector costs like Notting Hill Carnival.

                But because it was classed as a celebration of the reunification of Germany over 20 years ago it had become a cultural /political festival. if the authorities had started restricting movements further before the tunnel they would have had public order issues in other areas, same as we get in the UK and Germans feel understandably uncomfortable about “strong governments” due to the 20th century history..

                Easttek, like most free events is a much smaller event. at most they get maybe 100 000 people, probably a lot less.

                The loveparade had twice the population of the whole of Suffolk, and Duisburg normally only has a population of 500 000…

                #1227871
                1984
                Participant

                  scary stuff, sounds like they had way to many people for the area, sad that things like this still happen, its hardly the first time. 🙁

                  #1227865
                  General Lighting
                  Moderator

                    the saddest part of it is it shows up the massive conflict between modern economic realities and the idealistic aims of social democratic Europe…

                    Taxes are in fact really high in Germany and the Netherlands (something like 40/50% of your income) – you do get very good public services in return but people understandably want to see money being used wisely in times of recession.

                    The Germans should have not permitted it in that area in the first place. Frau Merkel should have had the courage to tell her people that they could not afford the festival this year and it can return at better economic times, after all we in Britain have stopped much smaller things when they got out of hand. However, due to cultural stereotypes (including those of Thatcho which she is compared to!) she and the Councillors didn’t want to take strong and decisive action earlier which would have saved people even if it was unpopular in the short term…

                    #1227867
                    leveret
                    Participant

                      @General Lighting 392563 wrote:

                      Taxes are in fact really high in Germany and the Netherlands (something like 40/50% of your income) – you do get very good public services in return but people understandably want to see money being used wisely in times of recession.

                      it’s about the same tax levels here, don’t forget. income tax is what, about 22% now ? plus n.i at 11% (which is just another tax, nothing to do with sickness or unemployment). plus the hidden tax of employer’s n.i. at another 11%, this is a further tax the employer pays on your salary as well as the taxes you pay on your salary. comes to pretty near 45% altogether.

                      #1227866
                      General Lighting
                      Moderator

                        @leveret 392628 wrote:

                        it’s about the same tax levels here, don’t forget. income tax is what, about 22% now ? plus n.i at 11% (which is just another tax, nothing to do with sickness or unemployment). plus the hidden tax of employer’s n.i. at another 11%, this is a further tax the employer pays on your salary as well as the taxes you pay on your salary. comes to pretty near 45% altogether.

                        Most EU countries do have similar levels of taxation out of necessity to provide such things but a citizen of NL or DE earning the same as one of us does indeed appear to be paying a slightly higher amount overall (here are some numbers from the EU themselves confirming this!)

                        EUROPA – Press Releases – Taxation trends in the European Union EU27 tax ratio fell to 39.3% of GDP in 2008 Steady decline in top corporate income tax rate since 2000

                        3% or 4% difference probably isn’t much in good economic times, but when economic depression comes every pound/euro is watched.

                        #1227862
                        Anonymous

                          normaly loveparade was a real parade, people moving throuht streets. there was no need of emergency exits or something, because you could simply go away where you wanted to. this time the big failure was that the area was enclosed, and by the way much to small.
                          which is a fact i can´t really understand, it wasn´t the first time that over a million visitors came, they should have known

                        Viewing 11 posts - 1 through 11 (of 11 total)
                        • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

                        Forums The Vibe Chat DE : 17 killed in Loveparade stampede