@joshd96320 392312 wrote:

just heard about this. :(. in all fairness sounds badly organised if theres only one in/out point

exactly. Those are not words I normally associate with Germany (having once worked closely alongside various Germans on complex IT/electronics projects for some years)

I think it shouldn’t have been moved out of Berlin (the UK equivalent would be something shifting the Notting Hill Carnival to Yarmouth :crazy_diz) over the years there have been arguments because its a free event and the German taxpayer paid lots of €€€ to subsidise it, yet its predominantly for younger folk (unlike last weekends Autobahn-festival which was aimed at everyone, and even that had to be restricted due to the number of cyclists!)

so it was shifted to a “cheaper” area with the organisers shouldering more of the costs. if you look at where Duisburg is and consider many dance music events have been cancelled in NL since the politics there shifted to the right, its not surprising the numbers were swelled this year (just as how unlicensed raves have shifted to SE England as the East went zero tolerance)

as it costs even more public money to deal with disasters and serious crimes, IMO the whole EU should move to a strategy of encouraging smaller events of 500-1000 people in local areas (by making them easier to license) in place of too large events with safety problems..

true, but bear in mind Germany’s history.

In England the govt would put their foot down and have refused the event license ages ago on health and safety grounds or demanded it was run on a commercial footing, if not via entry charges via obtaining sufficient sponsorship to pay for public sector costs like Notting Hill Carnival.

But because it was classed as a celebration of the reunification of Germany over 20 years ago it had become a cultural /political festival. if the authorities had started restricting movements further before the tunnel they would have had public order issues in other areas, same as we get in the UK and Germans feel understandably uncomfortable about “strong governments” due to the 20th century history..

Easttek, like most free events is a much smaller event. at most they get maybe 100 000 people, probably a lot less.

The loveparade had twice the population of the whole of Suffolk, and Duisburg normally only has a population of 500 000…

the saddest part of it is it shows up the massive conflict between modern economic realities and the idealistic aims of social democratic Europe…

Taxes are in fact really high in Germany and the Netherlands (something like 40/50% of your income) – you do get very good public services in return but people understandably want to see money being used wisely in times of recession.

The Germans should have not permitted it in that area in the first place. Frau Merkel should have had the courage to tell her people that they could not afford the festival this year and it can return at better economic times, after all we in Britain have stopped much smaller things when they got out of hand. However, due to cultural stereotypes (including those of Thatcho which she is compared to!) she and the Councillors didn’t want to take strong and decisive action earlier which would have saved people even if it was unpopular in the short term…

@leveret 392628 wrote:

it’s about the same tax levels here, don’t forget. income tax is what, about 22% now ? plus n.i at 11% (which is just another tax, nothing to do with sickness or unemployment). plus the hidden tax of employer’s n.i. at another 11%, this is a further tax the employer pays on your salary as well as the taxes you pay on your salary. comes to pretty near 45% altogether.

Most EU countries do have similar levels of taxation out of necessity to provide such things but a citizen of NL or DE earning the same as one of us does indeed appear to be paying a slightly higher amount overall (here are some numbers from the EU themselves confirming this!)

EUROPA – Press Releases – Taxation trends in the European Union EU27 tax ratio fell to 39.3% of GDP in 2008 Steady decline in top corporate income tax rate since 2000

3% or 4% difference probably isn’t much in good economic times, but when economic depression comes every pound/euro is watched.