Forums The Vibe Subscribers request from the cops

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  • #1045428
    globalloon
    Participant

      cops asked us to take down 2 of our posts relating to a legal event on here because mentioned that the capacity was 1500 (which it is on the license) and the other because it had the word rave in it

      http://www.partyvibe.com/forums/events/32805-2008-09-19-exeter-castle.html

      i’ve deleted the offending posts but FOR FUCK SAKE WHY DON’T THE COPS GO AND DEAL WITH SOME CRIME

      #1179342
      Techno Viking
      Participant

        Was this in direct relation to this web site?

        #1179343
        General Lighting
        Moderator

          this is what happens when bumpkin cops read metpol guidance notes and follow them to the letter – they are told to treat every rave, including legal ones, as a source of potential gun/gang crime – thanks to the UKG lot and scumjuice and bebo bigging up dysfunctional behaviour online…

          if they see the terms “dubstep”, “grime” or “garage” they are told to expect gangsters. If they see the terms “hardcore”, “hardstyle” etc they are told to expect drugs to be rife.

          its why I never plug the * legal events on here, because every time I did the cops personally visited them and accused them of putting on a event as a front for squat parties, and they would also discourage the venue managers from hiring the places again..

          how were you approached? in person or did the cops use any form of electronic communication?

          #1179368
          globalloon
          Participant

            @Dr Bunsen 235633 wrote:

            Was this in direct relation to this web site?

            yes.

            my friend got a dawn call this morning from Devon & Cornwall and they spoke specifically about the 2 posts on that thread that I’ve taken down

            one that mentioned capacity 1500 (which it is); they said they were concerned about numbers (?) of people turning up

            second one had the word rave in it, which was intended in a tongue in cheek way but taken to mean A Bad Thing

            #1179344
            General Lighting
            Moderator

              A telephone call, or bobbies actually turning up on the doorstep?

              The initiall tip off may not even by D & C, could have been Wiltshire or Avsom as they tend to share intelligence in groups

              I suspect they are worried about numbers because they can tell from here, SJ and Bebo that Eastern constabularies have been very successful in downsizing both the unlicensed and even legal events in their force areas,

              However easy access to vehicles and fuel costs still not biting too hard (ket sales are a nice earner) means that many “Norfolk” ravers can still afford to travel 150-200 or so miles to the West or SW for parties, hence increasing the numbers

              then add to that the current paranoia over “postcode/regional gang wars” (especially given the threads on some forums dissing each others regions)

              another thought – you’ve been stirring things with the “Waveform” lot, could it be possible they also called the cops or passed on info? its a bit rum as I’ve only seen cops do this before once in all the time I have been on here (Wiltshire, and it was a illegal event) and your area was supposedly more tolerant..

              #1179369
              globalloon
              Participant

                it was a phone call

                i wouldn’t put it past wavefart. the bastards

                * edit. the venue owner had 3 of them at his door at sunrise

                #1179370
                globalloon
                Participant

                  @General Lighting 235642 wrote:

                  its a bit rum as I’ve only seen cops do this before in all the time I have been on here (Wiltshire, and it was a illegal event) and your area was supposedly more tolerant..

                  we’ve been running legal events in exeter for years with no hassle ever apart the odd noise complaint, but usually from the other rooms crews as we do tend to drown out a lot of other systems

                  we haven’t held a free party all year and when we were it was under different names and the cops never tried to stop any of our parties, just came to have a chat

                  ironically, the word RAVE that they objected to only started being used around here after the tek in cornwall a couple years back when the local press called it “MEGA-RAVE”… and everyone round here started using the word all the time again… “did you go to the pub last night?” “yes, it was well RAVE mate” ho ho ho.

                  #1179345
                  General Lighting
                  Moderator
                    globalloon;235644 wrote:
                    we’ve been running legal events in exeter for years with no hassle ever apart the odd noise complaint, but usually from the other rooms crews as we do tend to drown out a lot of other systems

                    we haven’t held a free party all year and when we were it was under different names and the cops never tried to stop any of our parties, just came to have a chat

                    which is why I suspect another force with a harsher policy may initially have been involved (for instance most of the intelligence used to stop Norfolk raves was gathered by Suffolk and Essex)

                    Quote:
                    ironically, the word RAVE that they objected to only started being used around here after the tek in cornwall a couple years back when the local press called it “MEGA-RAVE”… and everyone round here started using the word all the time again… “did you go to the pub last night?” “yes, it was well RAVE mate” ho ho ho

                    probably why cops (who aren’t experts on youth subcultures) now even associate raves with binge drinking/fighting/violence

                    mind you it is creeping in on the scene here, the last legal night from my local crews was blighted by this, was speaking to the janitor of the venue what had to clean up the all the spilt blood and vomit :yakk: a few days ago

                    I’m so glad I didn’t go to the cornwall TEK, * offered me a lift but I didn’t feel right about the whole thing, thought it would be a complete fucking disaster in the long term.

                    both that and Waveform are mostly supported by SE England / Bristol crews who were run out of their own ends by the feds for just being stupid…

                    #1179371
                    globalloon
                    Participant

                      fucking hell it gets better…

                      this morning the cops have gone storming in to see the bloke who owns the castle in a right mood and have knocked 2 hours off the license and whacked an extra £400 on the bill

                      😥

                      last time i advertise anything on here 🙁

                      #1179384
                      Acidfairy
                      Participant

                        WTF!!!!

                        Thats mental Dan.. Can they actually do that?? Just coz of an advert on a website?

                        #1179346
                        General Lighting
                        Moderator

                          they definitely must have SE / Eastern forces encouraging this as this is identical to the Essex/Suffolk approach

                          its a real shame as I would say 90% of our users are clued up, responsible ravers but we invariably get lumped in with all the other forums/social networks and cops form their opinions of ravers from all of these sources..

                          #1179347
                          General Lighting
                          Moderator
                            Acidfairy;235656 wrote:
                            WTF!!!!

                            Thats mental Dan.. Can they actually do that?? Just coz of an advert on a website?

                            cops can make last minute license alterations on “health and safety grounds” or “protecting the public from disorder” . they can even close down a legal event with force if they really think stuff is getting out of hand, the only difference though from an unlicensed one is the organisers could sue them.

                            That said, I don’t think its just one advert or a few forum posts or a single event. This is a cumulative effect of loads of problems festering in that (policing) region over the years. The Western and South Western constabularies are working together to monitor both free and licensed raves, so I think this event is being “punished” unfairly for stupid things what happened over the years in Bristol, Wiltshire, Wales and Gloucestershire involving other less socially concious crews.

                            Add to that the fallout from the Cornwall “Teknival” in 2006, plus fears over ravers “migrating” from Norfolk to the West and SW, loads of ravers in Bristol and Gloucester losing the plot on drugs and burdening the NHS and it heralds the arrival of zero tolerance in that corner of the country as well..

                            Here in Suffolk cops are now training for riots in town because they know that the youths are angry at losing the party scene and going back to binge drinking and the council is closing down more and more pubs and “normal” townie venues

                            we are fast going back to the 1980s..

                            #1179372
                            globalloon
                            Participant

                              @General Lighting 235660 wrote:

                              incidentally should we warn our users this is happening?

                              yes

                              if we hang on until after our event then i’d be happy to post up a warning based on our experience

                              #1179348
                              General Lighting
                              Moderator
                                globalloon;235669 wrote:
                                yes

                                if we hang on until after our event then i’d be happy to post up a warning based on our experience

                                agreed – thats exactly what I was thinking (i.e wait until after your event has happened)

                                #1179373
                                globalloon
                                Participant

                                  looks like the whole event is being cancelled. one last fight at at it tomorrow but it looks bad

                                  #1179394
                                  Tank Girl
                                  Participant
                                    globalloon;236050 wrote:
                                    looks like the whole event is being cancelled. one last fight at at it tomorrow but it looks bad

                                    sorry to hear this..

                                    #1179385
                                    Acidfairy
                                    Participant
                                      globalloon;236050 wrote:
                                      looks like the whole event is being cancelled. one last fight at at it tomorrow but it looks bad

                                      That’s a fukin joke Dan.. good luck with fighting it…. :group_hug

                                      #1179374
                                      globalloon
                                      Participant

                                        last meeting today with cops and licensing officer… it’s been cancelled

                                        which is really fucking annoying. their initial reason for objecting was a couple of posts that my mates made on this site. once they had their teeth into it they came up with a load of other stuff about possible noise pollution, numbers etc which doesn’t really add up as we would be subject to all license conditions

                                        they even claimed to have a report of 100s of people planning to attend from manchester although why that should be a problem, i don’t know. i’m sure if hundreds of people travelled from exeter to manchester for a gig no-one would bat an eyelid

                                        weirdly enough they have said we can apply for a TENs to do something there in the next few weeks :crazy: and they also said that we are clearly all very professional, that they have no issue with us holding events there or any other suitable venue…

                                        so i guess it was all down to some unfortunate choice of words posted online, although on paper they haven’t pulled it just because of that, the meetings we’ve had with them, that is what comes through loud and clear

                                        :you_crazy

                                        #1179390
                                        Raj
                                        Participant

                                          :hopeless:

                                          :you_crazy

                                          Sorry to hear that Glo :group_hug

                                          #1179375
                                          globalloon
                                          Participant

                                            does it occur to anyone else that there is no obvious purpose for this site?

                                            we can’t talk about free parties; the couple of voices that are trying to pass on lessons from the past are largely ignored (e.g. message that waveform ripping off crews and ensuring that licensed sites are placed out of action for evermore… ignored)

                                            legal events get additional grief from the cops, to the point they get shut down before they even start (e.g crews Alex knows having pressure on the licensee, Ollie never promoting his events here, our most recent party getting stopped for no good reason)

                                            total amateurs give bad advice about drug use (see JonnyQuest misidentifying mushrooms in the shroom2 thread)

                                            so what is the point of this site? what is the direction? maybe we need to do a SWOT analysis and come up with a plan? I keep reading that it’s not all about free parties anymore, if that’s the case, then that needs to be made clear and the actual premiss of the site defined

                                            #1179395
                                            Tank Girl
                                            Participant
                                              globalloon;236551 wrote:
                                              maybe we need to do a SWOT analysis and come up with a plan?

                                              whats SWOT mean?

                                              I guess in my short time here, you’ve not been able to openly discuss free / illegal partys – so I’m used to it I guess more than you guys who’ve been here since the start?

                                              I really think it’d be a good insight for some of the subscribers to be able to view this thread, and so they can be aware of the ‘dangers’ of even talking about legal events on here….

                                              #1179349
                                              General Lighting
                                              Moderator

                                                SWOT = strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and tactics

                                                TBH I would say this place is bascially now a youths (taking a somewhat wide definition of youth, anything from 12-40) lifestyle site for more socially concious people than somewhere like SJ or bebo, and without the overt corporate domination of myspace, facebook or DSI

                                                oh, and you can download MP3’s at good speed and look at a lot of pretty pictures on here….

                                                its got links with the dance music scene and drugs but I no longer think anyone is that bothered about preserving the “scene” as far as events are concerned, its the new gap year activity, most of the younger people on here will give up when they get bored or burn out on the drugs. already all my mates barely in their 20s no longer go raves any more.

                                                as far as dance music events are going IMO its like watching your dog get old, you know it will die some day and can’t go walkies for as long or as often but if its not suffering you aren’t going to just have the animal put down, you’d stay with it until its last and remember the good times..

                                                then again people still keep coming here regularly, some maybe for the MP3s or just to chat about life in general, this place is actually growing in traffic so we must be doing something right..

                                                also we still give good advice about music technology (particularly Biotech, Titch and all the Scottish crew) and could help people a lot with studios and bedroom mixing as the scene may go back that way..

                                                #1179376
                                                globalloon
                                                Participant

                                                  @General Lighting 236558 wrote:

                                                  SWOT = strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and tactics[/quote]

                                                  3 out of 4… i had the T down as Threats… the obvious ones being that the cops are all over us and are using this place to shut down legitimate and legal organised events as well as gathering information to prosecute free party people

                                                  Quote:
                                                  TBH I would say this place is bascially now a youths (taking a somewhat wide definition of youth, anything from 12-40) lifestyle site for more socially concious people than somewhere like SJ or bebo, and without the overt corporate domination of myspace, facebook or DSI

                                                  if thats the case, maybe we need to remove the words free party, rave and anything else associated with that

                                                  Quote:
                                                  I no longer think anyone is that bothered about preserving the “scene” as far as events are concerned, its the new gap year activity, most of the younger people on here will give up when they get bored or burn out on the drugs. already all my mates barely in their 20s no longer go raves any more.

                                                  as far as dance music events are going IMO its like watching your dog get old, you know it will die some day and can’t go walkies for as long or as often but if its not suffering you aren’t going to just have the animal put down, you’d stay with it until its last and remember the good times..

                                                  my mate nik (mystery) who does all the djing / bookings and promotions for the castle party that has just been killed off also runs a CIC (community interest company… like a cross between a private business and a charity) to deliver dj and music tech training to kids excluded from school. IME loads of people are doing loads to keep the vibe alive in a way that isn’t going to lead to a big pile of shit…. unless we are still talking about the raves of the late 80’s & early 90s, in which case this place should just be a museum, like http://www.hardcorewillneverdie.com

                                                  Quote:
                                                  then again people still keep coming here regularly, some maybe for the MP3s or just to chat about life in general, this place is actually growing in traffic so we must be doing something right..

                                                  exactly. so lets’ figure out what it is that the place is about and do that, not get stuck in a habit based on the past that is damaging the present and future

                                                  Quote:
                                                  also we still give good advice about music technology (particularly Biotech, Titch and all the Scottish crew) and could help people a lot with studios and bedroom mixing as the scene may go back that way..

                                                  speakerplans?

                                                  #1179377
                                                  globalloon
                                                  Participant

                                                    word up to all the partyvibe subscribers

                                                    i’ve chosen to move this in here (we were discussing this in the staff coffee room) because it has implications for anyone organising any event, legal or otherwise.

                                                    your comments and feedback would be welcome

                                                    #1179350
                                                    General Lighting
                                                    Moderator
                                                      globalloon;236568 wrote:
                                                      3 out of 4… i had the T down as Threats… the obvious ones being that the cops are all over us and are using this place to shut down legitimate and legal organised events as well as gathering information to prosecute free party people

                                                      we (as mods) have been very security aware right from the start and removed obvious bait things quickly –

                                                      “free speech” is both a strength and a weakness…I doubt removing terms like free party/rave etc would make the slightest bit of difference and make the cops disappear – they are here to stay.

                                                      there are IMO two levels of surveillance.

                                                      The first is the obvious one where they will act on descriptions of actual planned crimes or potential crime

                                                      The second is the image cops get of the rave scene through monitoring all forums. Most of them lump together PV, SJ, DSI, Bebo and Facebook as a lot of people use all of these sites.

                                                      Although our drugs advice is usually good, and we don’t allow anything like the amount of “fuck the babylon” or the sex-obsessed rubbish to be found elsewhere, we do have a fair few unrepentant older drug addicts chatting about opiates on the forums (at one point it looked like a heroin rehab). All of them were aged 24-40 and at one point “old skool ravers”. All of them moved to opiates because they became bored of party drugs.

                                                      We also have a lot of younger K users bemoaning the physical and mental health issues that are being casued.

                                                      There have been at least two posts from younger women in their mid 20s wanting to defeat drugs tests. I assume from the context of their posts and profiles they have been told to stay clean in order to keep access to their children, but have not been able to exhibit sufficient self-control to do so.

                                                      Now everyone is exercising their free speech and not exactly telling lies – but who can blame cops / NHS / social services for viewing this as proof that electronic dance music events are a potential gateway to class A drug use. do we have the right to try and “bury this bad news”?

                                                      IMO it should be told and we should deal with the consequences.

                                                      I do feel a bit sorry for the younger generation but they are repeating the same mistakes. 3 people I know have got addicted to H/crack and I’ve only known them for about 2 years. The more intelligent youths in my area are simply walking away and going college/uni instead (not that there’s anything bad in this!)

                                                      Quote:
                                                      IME loads of people are doing loads to keep the vibe alive in a way that isn’t going to lead to a big pile of shit…. unless we are still talking about the raves of the late 80’s & early 90s, in which case this place should just be a museum, like http://www.hardcorewillneverdie.com

                                                      at the moment its more a museum of rave from the late 90s to early 2000s – but its only become so by peoples own actions in the wider community.

                                                      there are people trying to do TENS events here but are coming across the same issues you are.

                                                      the big elephant in the room is drugs – here in Eastern England virtually every family with younger children has had at least one kid or young relative affected by problematic drug use, and most link it with the rave scene.

                                                      I was telling people in SE and Eastern England about the risks of environmental damage and excessive drug use 6 or so years ago – people ignored it and even went off to other forums as they “didn’t have so much bad news”

                                                      Quote:
                                                      speakerplans?

                                                      I find sites like that fairly incomprehensible to newcomers and contains the usual ego-tripping found in a techie dominated environment (bear in mind this comment is coming from an engineer with 20 years tech experience!)

                                                      however our community (particularly Olly and the Scots) are good at explaining this to those who aren’t already techies which is what we need to do.

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                                                    Forums The Vibe Subscribers request from the cops