Forums Radionics Internet Radio Radio Power Boost

This topic contains 11 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by Avatar DaftFader January 31, 2014 at 5:57 pm.

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  • #1056666
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    Dr Bunsen
    Participant

    Received this today…

    From: Rohan Jobson
    Sent: Wednesday, 13 November 2013 2:42 PM
    Subject: POWER BOOST

    All the other stations are broadcasting more powerful Audio Signals than you guys are, what is it? need more powerful Amps. If you should take a listen to the others, you’d have a first hand hearing of what I talking about. Check it! Boost the Power brothers, it’s needed. Thanks.

    Sent from Windows Mail

    #1276235
    Avatar
    General Lighting
    Moderator

    If possible listeners experiencing this issue should raise the gain at their end and/or use better equipment, but to be fair I can see (and hear) the difference. PVR uses “studio” reference level with 0db / PPM4 (on BBC scale) as -18dbFS, and a maximum programme level of -10dbFS. This sounds “quiet” when played on smaller devices and loudspeakers, and their gain settings may not permit raising the incoming gain to a stronger level.

    Current EBU standard for maximum programme level at the listeners end on a digital audio circuit is -0.1dBTP (a true peak level derived from the reconstructed signal he listener would hear), with more emphasis placed on loudness monitoring.

    This may or may not correspond to what the studio is sending to the music line, depending on what soundprocessing is between the studio programme output and any encoder.

    PVR has a mixture of old skool content recorded on legacy analogue kit and newer digital tracks and mixes which are strongly compressed, as well as live shows which are (quite rightly) given more headroom to prevent gross overloads at the listener end.

    Replaygain tends to force down the peak level of the compressed shows as its one soundprocessor fighting another. I’ve turned it off on my Airtime server in NL for that reason.

    When I broadcast live I use Eddcast Reborn to shift the level up about 7dB and then limit it at -1dbFS which works without using an external soundprocessor on programme material (it causes other problems in the studio especially with beatmixing, as the equipment introduces lag).

    Some VFR Europe stuff does get run through a relatively aggressive form of compression to make it “louder” as otherwise there is a big level shift between shows as Umek and Robbie tend to send their material pre-compressed, though I am gradually easing back on the compression levels whilst trying to keep the max peak audio levels constant.

    #1276240
    Avatar
    DaftFader
    Participant

    Oh no, not the loudness wars. 🙁

    #1276236
    Avatar
    General Lighting
    Moderator

    @daftfader 558187 wrote:

    Oh no, not the loudness wars. 🙁

    one of the shoegaze/drone kids who broadcasts on ICR-FM once played a 96k MP3 or something off youtube that sounded so rough it ended up with both myself and a Director of ICR-FM ringing up the Station Manager and basically asking WTF was going on, it was really bad weather too (strong wind from coast) so I even thought our Band I link antenna had been de-masted and we were just rebroadcasting any random noise present on the VHF frequency…

    #1276241
    Avatar
    DaftFader
    Participant

    That makes me sad. Most of my tunes are in 96Khz 32bit floating point .wav (that’s 96k sample rate not bit rate like on mp3s the bit rate would be 61440Kbs lol!). They come out at about 250MB per tune. :laugh_at:

    If I was going to release them I would dither and truncate them to at least 96k 24bit, but I’d probably let a master engineer do this after mastering my track.

    #1276242
    Avatar
    DaftFader
    Participant

    This is an interesting read …

    A DJ’s Guide to Audio Files and Bitrates | DJ TechTools

    Mby you should email it to all the icr djs. 🙂

    #1276239
    Avatar
    leveret
    Participant

    @Dr Bunsen 558180 wrote:

    Received this today…

    Quote:
    Sent from Windows Mail

    yeah turn up those amps bunsen, more levels is better !

    #1276243
    Avatar
    DaftFader
    Participant

    yeah make sure everything possible is showing up as red, green=bad red=good. 🙂

    #1276237
    Avatar
    General Lighting
    Moderator

    Incidentally I have recently reactivated replaygain on VFR Europe, and whilst it does force down the level of some shows and the manual gives a confusing message that the average level is -14 dBFS (peak audio) on checking with an Orban meter it appears to be -14 LUFS (loudness units), which is sort of in line with the R128 (still under development) for a pop music based / station aimed at younger listeners; the ideal of -23 LUFS is too quiet for those with portable devices or listening on smaller loudspeakers. Indeed, the Norway public broadcasters use -14 LUFS for youth stations and -23 LUFS for the classical music station and news/talk station

    I also have conducted various experiments with a low cost SIM and a second hand Android mobile device to listen to the stream mobile using 3G network (I will put up a separate post about this) – and found that -14 LUFS does deliver enough level for comfortably listening upon headphones (cheap €5-€10 sets, both full size and earbuds), and is actually more pleasant to listen on these cheap cans than higher levels. There may also be some code in then Android audio kernel drivers that recognises the correct loudness level.

    It also makes it more difficult to push the level up too hard when on the move (such as riding a bicycle), which is good for your own and others road safety. (I was able to listen for a large part of an 11km bicycle ride yesterday).

    #1276244
    Avatar
    DaftFader
    Participant

    -1dBFS FTW

    #1276238
    Avatar
    General Lighting
    Moderator

    @daftfader 560986 wrote:

    -1dBFS FTW

    you can get away with that even with live programme material providing there are suitable limiters, and you are also monitoring true peak level at the listeners end – what is discouraged is the “loudness sausage” and doubling up on codecs to save bandwidth, which one of the Ofcom chaps found out the big broadcasters are doing as he wondered why the output of an experimental DAB tranmission system built up of scrounged components including a 10 year old PC used as a encoder sounded way better than the existing DAB radio stations!

    apparently in ES and FR it is now law that all broadcasters (which means anyone who sends audio to be listened to by a group of people, including Internet stations) must be following R128 loudness recommendations as much as possible, and if they repeatedly transmit bad audio the Communications Ministry can disconnect or block their stream or and/have their transmitter turned off!

    #1276245
    Avatar
    DaftFader
    Participant

    yeah i ment -1dBFS at listener end. most online stations run from -1dBFFS – -0.01dBfs peak. With perfect clarity. Persoanly I’d gve the -1dBFS so you have a head room on 1d/b to catch any spikes with a limiter and not eat in to the music

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