› Forums › Music › Sound Engineering › Noob really needs advice for buying a P.A…
- This topic has 5 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated February 10, 2012 at 5:54 pm by cheeseweasel.
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February 10, 2012 at 4:17 pm #1052375
Hi guys. I need quite a lot of very noob advice, and I hope you can help. I’ll start with a bit of info about myself as I think it will give a clearer picture of what I’m after…
I’m in my early forties and have lived my adult life lagely on site and in squats (both in the UK and Europe). I’ve spent a lot of time helping mates set up parties and lumping rig gear around but never really understood what it all was. Two years ago I started a BTEC in Sound Engineering. It’s coming to end soon and I’m under considerable pressure to come off the dole and earn some money – which I want to do doing sound engineering (I really don’t like the alternatives)… Now, I appreciate that a BTEC diploma and a job record that basically consists of partying and taking drugs is not the greatest start to this new career (I can’t go on with studying for financial reasons and because I have an old degree I never used)… sooo, I’ve hit on the idea of getting a P.A together to hire out, with myself as a sound engineer along with it. Not only will this hopefully earn me a bit of much needed dosh, but also give me (also much needed) experience and mean I’ve got something to bring with me as a fledgling sound engineer. I’ve no money whatsoever, but my girlfriend is willing to invest some of her grandmas inheritance to get me started (maybe about £2500 but that might be flexible).
So first question… does anyone have any advice about how viable a business idea this is? I’m not expecting to make fortune here, but hopefully it can pay for itself and bring in some extra cash. It’s really important that I don’t lose all my girlfriends money, but I assume that if I buy decent second hand gear then I could always resell it with little, if any, loss? Since this would all be above board, I’d also need to insure the gear and insure myself in case someone electrocutes themselves or something.
If the idea has any legs at all, I could do with advice choosing the gear. I was hoping to be able to get enough stuff together to put on smallish bands (ideally set up for punk bands, but I need to be flexible), pub disco stuff, weddings blah blah…. If I could contribute to party nights, that would be a big bonus (I’m not sure the whether the sort of gear I’m looking at can be usefully linked up with party rigs?). As I’ve only got a car for transport, the whole thing would need to be quite compact, so I’m thinking that an pre-made active P.A system is probably the way to go (I’m not averse to idea of building my own boxes – my budget is very tight – but they are going to be bulky, and I’m guessing that peeps hiring a P.A want brand names.. opinions welcome). Obviously, the idea is to have a flexible rig that is expandable upon in the future…
The tentative list of stuff I’ll need that I’ve come up with is…
2 x speakers – active high/mids – is 500w each too much?
1 (or 2?) subwoofers (?watage)
16 channel mixing desk (analogue) – maybe more than I need at first but will be good for futureproofing
compresssor
1 x 300w active floor monitor (do I need more? should I see if I can get a cheap In Ear Monitoring System instead?)
microphones ( 1 x drum mic kit (Shure maybe, but a bit expensive)) + 3 SM57/58’s + 1 x Rode NT1 condenser)
speaker stands, mic stands, cabling
(optional – a cheap laptop and Mbox so I can record bands live and do a bit of DJing (I’m not a DJ but I’m sure can play some iTunes tracks)How does this sound? Is it enough to get started with? Should I go passive? Should I really be looking at something else entirely? Concrete brand/model suggestions welcome. Is something like the Void Basys a good start (probably a bit pricey given the other gear I need but I might get lucky on eBay)?
I would really appreciate any advice, observations and suggestions from any of you good peeps here.
Cheers n beers,
Dougie
-:).
February 10, 2012 at 4:22 pm #1249157first which country and what region? this makes a big difference over what sort of PA is tolerated / encouraged and even what kit is easily available.
Mind you even here in Ipswich there seems to be demand for sound for pub rock type bands. in many areas I would suggest concentrating on the market for those with “geetars” and also boning conference/corporate PA requirements irrespective of your personal preferences. if you are a Scot there seems to be a lot of older chaps there about our uncles age with punk bands who might want sound engineers so they can concentrate on their music, and also folk singers. (actually plenty here in my town).
February 10, 2012 at 5:06 pm #1249158I’m Plymouth (UK) but we are possibly moving to somewhere else in the South West (depends on my girlfriends job). I know nearly all the punk bands in Plymouth (it isn’t big).. hmm .. I’ll ask around if they need engineers…
February 10, 2012 at 5:20 pm #1249160It might be a fun project that will make you a bit of extra cash, but it’s not a viable business idea (you won’t be able to live off it).
The margins in the PA hire business are so low that you’ll have to run a very tight ship and be very focussed on the business aspect to make even a modest return on your investment. There’s a good thread on the Blue Room at the moment about it.
Help with research about equipment hire for schools & colleges – Blue Room technical forum
I guess the good news is that it’s a low-risk venture. If you’re paying for your gear up-front its not going to lose you any money if it’s sat in the garage for a month – you just won’t be making any. You need to do some figures to work out how much exactly you can make out of this. Compare this to what you actually need it to make in order to cover your overheads (fuel, maintenance/repair) and see if it’s still worthwhile. Check out what your competitors in the area are hiring similar systems out for.
You say your target market is punk bands. How much money do they have to spend on hiring a PA? Personally I’d be aiming at the wedding/event sector tbh who are happy to spend £400 on hiring a small PA system with engineer. I know a guy who started out doing exactly this, driving cheap soundsystems around in a van to wedding parties and has gradually grown the business into a small PA/stage hire company (which incidentally is really struggling atm). I know another guy in London who did the same thing for the corporate sector (conferences/events) and he now owns a small company employing 3 people that he makes a steady living from (he works 18 hours every day running his business – it’s his life).
I don’t mean to piss on your bonfire, but I work in this sector and have seen first hand how almost every professional hire outfit struggles to make any money. I’ve seen a few go completely bust. By all means, buy a PA and have fun doing sound for your mates bands (if I had the money I’d quite like my own rig too), but don’t think you’ll be able to make a living from it. I don’t know where you live but see what production companies are based in your area and try to get on their crew. Also see if there is a ‘local crew’ company near you. These hire out crew to events/shows and are a good way of getting real-life experience. Examples are Rock City and Gallowglass.
February 10, 2012 at 5:21 pm #1249161@dougiepunk 467284 wrote:
I’m Plymouth (UK) but we are possibly moving to somewhere else in the South West (depends on my girlfriends job). I know nearly all the punk bands in Plymouth (it isn’t big).. hmm .. I’ll ask around if they need engineers…
Rock City stage crew are based in Plymouth. They’ll probably give you some casual crewing work. They do a lot of work at Cardiff Arena amongst other places.
February 10, 2012 at 5:54 pm #1249159Thanks mate, that’s all good advice. I’m not really really expecting to make a living from it, but was hoping it would would make some money (I’m trying to convince my girlfriend that I should at least make more money than the interest she would get if she left the dosh in a bank…. Punk bands was just a side note really – I was thinking weddings etc. as the earner… I’ll check out Rock City. -:).
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