Forums Music Sound Equipment Limiters

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  • #1046793
    DaftFader
    Participant

      ok so i think i need a limiter … i want both my decks to come out at the same volume when turned up … obviosly i can just get the volume knobs and turn them for each cannel on my mixer .. but when in a mix it’s hard to tell how loud the other deck is going to come out at when monitoring on headphones … now what i am not sure about is if i put a limiter on the main out put .. it will limit the peak to a certain lvl lowering the lower level sounds ie. the quiter deck .. or weather it will just limet the peak that goes over the “limet” (i think the latter is more a condencer?). or will i need two limiters on each deck do you think? or some other piece of equipment like a condencer or compresser to do what i want?

      #1194865
      cheeseweasel
      Participant

        A limiter is just a compressor with a very high (ideally infinite) compression ratio, i.e. if the signal level goes over the threshold it will not be allowed to get any louder.

        300px-Compression_ratio.svg.png

        The flat horizontal line is what a limiter will do, the lower ratio lines are compressors (as they compress the dynamic range of the signal above the threshold as opposed to limiting it).

        As you can imagine if the [music] signal is being limited it will sound shit because its having the fuck squashed out of it. It can also cause distortion which also sounds shit, hurts peoples ears and damages your speakers.

        So using a limiter to just get your decks at the same level isn’t a good idea, its not what the limiter is for. When used in a rig, it’s placed before the crossover to protect the speakers from excessively high signal levels (but in normal operation it shouldn’t be acting on the signal at all).

        I guess all you can do is use your meters and ears to match the levels of your decks.

        #1194866
        DaftFader
        Participant
          cheeseweasel;312892 wrote:
          A limiter is just a compressor with a very high (ideally infinite) compression ratio, i.e. if the signal level goes over the threshold it will not be allowed to get any louder.

          300px-Compression_ratio.svg.png

          The flat horizontal line is what a limiter will do, the lower ratio lines are compressors (as they compress the dynamic range of the signal above the threshold as opposed to limiting it).

          As you can imagine if the [music] signal is being limited it will sound shit because its having the fuck squashed out of it. It can also cause distortion which also sounds shit, hurts peoples ears and damages your speakers.

          So using a limiter to just get your decks at the same level isn’t a good idea, its not what the limiter is for. When used in a rig, it’s placed before the crossover to protect the speakers from excessively high signal levels (but in normal operation it shouldn’t be acting on the signal at all).

          I guess all you can do is use your meters and ears to match the levels of your decks.

          i kinda thought that may be the case on one hand ..on the other i didn’t know how much a limiter effected the quality of a signal tho .. didn’t realise it worked like a compresser … i thought it just limited the gain with out damagin the signal to that extent it does…

          no other gadgets that would do what i want to do ?

          #1194858
          process
          Participant
            DaftFader;312895 wrote:
            i kinda thought that may be the case on one hand ..on the other i didn’t know how much a limiter effected the quality of a signal tho .. didn’t realise it worked like a compresser … i thought it just limited the gain with out damagin the signal to that extent it does…

            no other gadgets that would do what i want to do ?

            maybe buy a better mixer? which shows you the level each deck is coming in at meaning you can change the volume to match the other before you bring it in…

            #1194877
            Clusterfrog
            Participant

              what you really want is a ‘volume maximiser’ type effect, which just turn the signal down a bit if it’s too loud. As far as I know these only exist as software though but worth looking around.

              On the other hand all you should need to do is look at the master volume meter on your mixer and make sure it doesnt go in the red.

              #1194867
              DaftFader
              Participant
                djprocess;312929 wrote:
                maybe buy a better mixer? which shows you the level each deck is coming in at meaning you can change the volume to match the other before you bring it in…

                mine does that .. but them things never work for me … it’s a problem i have allmost fixed in my mixing … but thought it would be nice to have a fail safe inplace

                #1194868
                DaftFader
                Participant
                  Iacchus;312944 wrote:
                  what you really want is a ‘volume maximiser’ type effect, which just turn the signal down a bit if it’s too loud. As far as I know these only exist as software though but worth looking around.

                  On the other hand all you should need to do is look at the master volume meter on your mixer and make sure it doesnt go in the red.

                  i never redline my stuff … just some tunes have diferant freq’s louder than others and even tho it looks like they are the same volume on the level’o’mitor (or what ever it’s called :laugh_at:) when it comes out the speakers one tune sounds alot louder than the other ๐Ÿ˜ฅ

                  #1194859
                  process
                  Participant

                    only way round it is to just bring it in slowly and alter the gains as the tune comes in i guess. either that or buy a new set of needles as this may be why one deck is quieter than the other…

                    #1194869
                    DaftFader
                    Participant
                      djprocess;312948 wrote:
                      only way round it is to just bring it in slowly and alter the gains as the tune comes in i guess. either that or buy a new set of needles as this may be why one deck is quieter than the other…

                      yeah i think i need alot of new equipment .. and i do normaly bring things in slowly .. but for some mixes it requires me to cut right in to full volume blind .. and the levels need to match b4 cuting in for this to be sucsessfull .. and thats not allways the case even when it looks like they should be the same volume on my lvl indicators … :yakk:

                      #1194860
                      process
                      Participant
                        DaftFader;312951 wrote:
                        yeah i think i need alot of new equipment .. and i do normaly bring things in slowly .. but for some mixes it requires me to cut right in to full volume blind .. and the levels need to match b4 cuting in for this to be sucsessfull .. and thats not allways the case even when it looks like they should be the same volume on my lvl indicators … :yakk:

                        true. knew set of needles should help a bit..

                        #1194870
                        DaftFader
                        Participant
                          djprocess;312952 wrote:
                          true. knew set of needles should help a bit..

                          yeah i need new carts and all as one of mine is held on with cellotape lol

                          #1194861
                          process
                          Participant

                            try giving your records a bit of a clean as well as that can effect the volume to.. (ill reply to your pm when im not at work mate ๐Ÿ˜‰ )

                            #1194878
                            Clusterfrog
                            Participant
                              DaftFader;312947 wrote:
                              i never redline my stuff … just some tunes have diferant freq’s louder than others and even tho it looks like they are the same volume on the level’o’mitor (or what ever it’s called :laugh_at:) when it comes out the speakers one tune sounds alot louder than the other ๐Ÿ˜ฅ

                              I know what you mean.. that’s a sign of badly mastered track I suppose but there’s nothing you can do about that! Other than know your tracks well and make adjustments on the fly

                              #1194871
                              DaftFader
                              Participant
                                Iacchus;312962 wrote:
                                I know what you mean.. that’s a sign of badly mastered track I suppose but there’s nothing you can do about that! Other than know your tracks well and make adjustments on the fly

                                yeah that’s what causes it alot of the time … you get it alot with represses and all … i try my best to compensate .. but it catches me out some times:cry:

                                #1194872
                                DaftFader
                                Participant
                                  djprocess;312958 wrote:
                                  try giving your records a bit of a clean as well as that can effect the volume to.. (ill reply to your pm when im not at work mate ๐Ÿ˜‰ )

                                  most of my records are relatively clean .. alltho only from wiping them on the back of my t-shirt b4 they go on the deck to be played … it does the job:laugh_at:

                                  #1194862
                                  Raj
                                  Participant

                                    Think you need new needles and a mixer with either level needles or lights :p

                                    I have a fully working and recently serviced djm500 for sale if you are interested ๐Ÿ˜‰ it was retired to make way for a urei mixer :weee:

                                    #1194873
                                    DaftFader
                                    Participant
                                      Raj;313737 wrote:
                                      Think you need new needles and a mixer with either level needles or lights :p

                                      I have a fully working and recently serviced djm500 for sale if you are interested ๐Ÿ˜‰ it was retired to make way for a urei mixer :weee:

                                      i have lvl lights on both my mixers ..

                                      my nedals on the other hand are mash up … ones held together with celotape .. also the tone arm on one of my decks is loose and wobbles about all the time .. so i am sure that doesn’t help ๐Ÿ˜ฅ

                                      #1194863
                                      Raj
                                      Participant

                                        You are likely to be right about that – wobbly tonearms are not good.

                                        #1194856
                                        noname
                                        Participant

                                          Aye – sort the decks before you do anything else to try and help the problem.

                                          A limiter for that job is a really bad idea anyway – as has already been said, a limiter is just a compressor with infinite ratio. You don’t want it to be active as a general rule as it’s there mostly for protection, and it distorts the signal if pushed beyond it’s limiting threshold (btw – the volume maximiser that you get in software is just another compressor – usually with a sidebanded eq of some description, and one or two other features depending, like tube emulation etc. They do come in hardware too, or you can set one up using a compressor with an eq on the sideband…)

                                          Better by far to get a mixer with good monitoring – a decent level meter on each channel would be fave, then do it by ear as you’re mixing… And sort the turntables out (get new carts and stylii, fix the loose tonearm, take any 5p’s bluetacked to headshell off and set the weight, height and anti skate properly – you’d be amazed how many of the problems can be down to a badly weighted/tracked tonearm…:wink:)

                                          #1194874
                                          DaftFader
                                          Participant
                                            noname;314894 wrote:
                                            Aye – sort the decks before you do anything else to try and help the problem.

                                            A limiter for that job is a really bad idea anyway – as has already been said, a limiter is just a compressor with infinite ratio. You don’t want it to be active as a general rule as it’s there mostly for protection, and it distorts the signal if pushed beyond it’s limiting threshold (btw – the volume maximiser that you get in software is just another compressor – usually with a sidebanded eq of some description, and one or two other features depending, like tube emulation etc. They do come in hardware too, or you can set one up using a compressor with an eq on the sideband…)

                                            Better by far to get a mixer with good monitoring – a decent level meter on each channel would be fave, then do it by ear as you’re mixing… And sort the turntables out (get new carts and stylii, fix the loose tonearm, take any 5p’s bluetacked to headshell off and set the weight, height and anti skate properly – you’d be amazed how many of the problems can be down to a badly weighted/tracked tonearm…:wink:)

                                            i used to set mine up properly .. but now the tone arm is wobbley it’s pointless cos the wieght undoes it’s self with the bass from my speakers:laugh_at:

                                            #1194857
                                            noname
                                            Participant
                                              DaftFader;314916 wrote:
                                              i used to set mine up properly .. but now the tone arm is wobbley it’s pointless cos the wieght undoes it’s self with the bass from my speakers:laugh_at:

                                              Then fix the tonearm? I have a full service manual for Technics if you need one (got it as a pdf somewhere…) Tonearm should be relatively easy to fix unless it’s totalled ๐Ÿ˜‰

                                              #1194875
                                              DaftFader
                                              Participant
                                                noname;314924 wrote:
                                                Then fix the tonearm? I have a full service manual for Technics if you need one (got it as a pdf somewhere…) Tonearm should be relatively easy to fix unless it’s totalled ๐Ÿ˜‰

                                                besides the decks not being technics:laugh_at: (alltho i apreciate the offer) i think there buggered m8 … tbh i would rather buy a new pair of decks than repair these ones .. as the’re crap and my mates anyway .. i am just borrowing them as he cant mix and i have no decks and can kinda mix on these things (more so than with no decks anyway:laugh_at:)

                                                i just didn’t realise is was faulty hardware possably causing my problem … now i know what i have to do .. i will spend 5 years doing it till i have grown out of music and raving and give up on the idea of buying new decks :laugh_at: (that will never happen!:wink:)

                                                #1194864
                                                Raj
                                                Participant
                                                  DaftFader;314966 wrote:
                                                  i will spend 5 years doing it till i have grown out of music and raving and give up on the idea of buying new decks :laugh_at: (that will never happen!:wink:)

                                                  pmsl good luck with that – I am still doing it 16 years on raaa

                                                  #1194855
                                                  globalloon
                                                  Participant

                                                    @Raj 314967 wrote:

                                                    pmsl good luck with that – I am still doing it 16 years on raaa

                                                    i’m still doing 16 years on too

                                                    with shit decks ๐Ÿ˜ฅ

                                                    @Daft if the levels don’t help you, does you mixer allow you to listen to both tracks before you bring the cross fader over? you should be able to hear the levels through the phones

                                                    #1194876
                                                    DaftFader
                                                    Participant
                                                      globalloon;315023 wrote:
                                                      i’m still doing 16 years on too

                                                      with shit decks ๐Ÿ˜ฅ

                                                      @Daft if the levels don’t help you, does you mixer allow you to listen to both tracks before you bring the cross fader over? you should be able to hear the levels through the phones

                                                      yeah my mixer does .. but it’s a dial fader … so it’s hard to tell when it’s reproducing the same levels that are coming out of the speakers … as i can adjust the head phone left and right channel seperatly … there is a button i can press to get it to change mode .. but that is broken ..and tbh i never use them things .. i am guessing that i need to just add some pre fading lvling to my repatoir of tricks ๐Ÿ˜‰

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                                                    Forums Music Sound Equipment Limiters