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  • #1056229
    AvatarDr Bunsen
    Participant

    Having recently joined Google Adsense we were unfortunately just booted from their program because of the sex and drugs content on the site. Although I don’t like being dictated to by Google this does put us at something of a cross roads based on discussions we’ve all had in the past around the direction our web site has been taking particularly around these topics with some people increasing uncomfortable with either or both. So having put some thought into the matter I’ve come up with the following options which I would really appreciate your feedback on…

    Option 1. Do nothing, forget google and try to raise similarly amounts money in other ways (not easy but feasible).
    Option 2. Close down the more explicit sections of the site (e.g: Fantasy Sex or MDMA)
    Option 3. Move the offending sections of the site to a new / seperate domain (e.g: partyvibe.com or partyvibe.org) and set up a seperate forum for them with the exact same look and feel.

    Personally I’m really drawn to option 3 at the moment… What do you all think?

    #1274760
    AvatarGeneral Lighting
    Moderator

    I’d agree with moving some of the more controversial stuff to another domain (whilst keeping it under the PVR look and feel (as we already have used those domains anyway). That would be in line with what most public broadcasters in Europe aiming at a youth audience to to a greater or lesser extent. I’ve personally never thought our site was even that controversial but am increasingly concious we operate in a very multicultural world online and different parts of the world have different sensitivities…

    #1274794
    AvatarMC G-Tek
    Participant

    I reckon either 1 or 3. Option 2 would be, in my humble opinion, a bad move, (from a drugs point of view anyway) as I feel that collectively we do a lot of good work in the area of helpful advice & harm reduction (certainly far better than FRANK). It’s a shame that google are cuntish enough and have enough power to force you/us into making a decision, but as you’ve got those domains anyway, I reckon they may as well be put to good use. 🙂

    #1274802
    Avatarjoksgez
    Participant

    how will the other site be funded though?

    i think most of the PV crew would just move to the new site and you could be faced with the same probably again? hmm i dont know

    #1274761
    AvatarGeneral Lighting
    Moderator

    @joksgez 552772 wrote:

    how will the other site be funded though?

    i think most of the PV crew would just move to the new site and you could be faced with the same probably again? hmm i dont know

    the drugs discussions would be on the other site whilst the chat and the radio streams stay here. this is enough to be “two separate sites”. to use a mainstream example, talk to frank and the BBC are on different domains and treated as such but they are both funded by the UK taxpayer. I would not agree with closing down the drugs forums as they are genuinely valuable and keep people safe.

    #1274774
    Avatarsinner69
    Participant

    I fucking hate internet ATM and how it turns out to be in the future to come….I need time to decide. But I did see this comming…

    #1274804
    AvatarDr Bunsen
    Participant

    I’m thinking the two sites could be different sides of the same coin with prominent links to both so you can just switch from one the other at any time…

    #1274762
    AvatarGeneral Lighting
    Moderator

    it would be what we call in England a “Chinese fire drill”. This is a joke where the driver and passengers in a motor car stop at a traffic light, and everyone gets out, runs around the vehicle, and then returns to it but in different seats. the number of people within the vehicle and direction of travel remain constant 😉

    #1274805
    AvatarDr Bunsen
    Participant

    One big frustration I have is that we’ve been type cast by google in that by far the majority of the traffic we get from them is for either drugs or sex content which I think is a great shame given how much more we have to offer which is why I like the idea of the split so much because there would effectively be two linked sites each attracting their own traffic and more diversity…

    @General Lighting 552774 wrote:

    the drugs discussions would be on the other site whilst the chat and the radio streams stay here. this is enough to be “two separate sites”. to use a mainstream example, talk to frank and the BBC are on different domains and treated as such but they are both funded by the UK taxpayer. I would not agree with closing down the drugs forums as they are genuinely valuable and keep people safe.

    #1274763
    AvatarGeneral Lighting
    Moderator

    This happens. Google quite genuinely think I am a Dutch farmer who runs a pirate radio station from a poultry barn on the NL/DE border area. On my youtube I even get the cat videos in Dutch or German these days..

    #1274806
    AvatarDr Bunsen
    Participant

    The only added costs would a second hand license for vbulletin and vbseo. The new site could be run entirely on our existing setup…

    @joksgez 552772 wrote:

    how will the other site be funded though?

    i think most of the PV crew would just move to the new site and you could be faced with the same probably again? hmm i dont know

    #1274803
    Avatarjoksgez
    Participant

    seems like the new site is the best option then really, only risk is creating a divide between people but i suppose any worthwhile member would have things to offer on both sites

    #1274807
    AvatarDr Bunsen
    Participant

    It should be possible for users to have just the one login and password between the two sites as well.

    #1274773
    AvatarBioTech
    Participant

    My initial reaction is – Fuck ’em (option 1) but that would be more about principles and not bowing down to this new phase of the WWW. The more logical (whilst still not removing the content) choice would be option 3. Seems to make complete sense and we still hold our integrity and important content… although it still pains me to think that we are being pushed around by these new masters of the webiverse.

    #1274791
    Avatarknow_hope
    Participant

    its not going to be a huge difference if its 3 and it solves the problem… so 3

    #1274775
    Avatarsinner69
    Participant

    Google do double standards;

    Check out the lyrics;

    “We Can’t Stop”

    It’s our party we can do what we want (no drama)
    It’s our party we can say what we want (Mike will made)
    It’s our party we can love who we want
    We can kiss who we want
    We can sing what we want

    It’s our party we can do what we want
    It’s our party we can say what we want
    It’s our party we can love who we want
    We can kiss who we want
    We can sing what we want

    Red cups and sweaty bodies everywhere
    Hands in the air like we don’t care
    ‘Cause we came to have so much fun now
    Bet somebody here might get some now

    If you’re not ready to go home
    Can I get a “Hell, no!”? (Hell no)
    ‘Cause we’re gonna go all night
    ‘Til we see the sunlight, alright

    So la da di da di
    We like to party
    Dancing with molly*
    Doing whatever we want
    This is our house
    This is our rules

    And we can’t stop
    And we won’t stop
    Can’t you see it’s we who own the night?
    Can’t you see it’s we who ’bout that life?

    And we can’t stop
    And we won’t stop
    We run things, things don’t run we
    Don’t take nothing from nobody
    Yeah, yeah

    It’s our party we can do what we want
    It’s our party we can say what we want
    It’s our party we can love who we want
    We can kiss who we want
    We can sing what we want

    To my home girls here with the big butt
    Shaking it like we at a strip club
    Remember only God can judge ya
    Forget the haters ’cause somebody loves ya
    And everyone in line in the bathroom
    Trying to get a line in the bathroom
    We all so turned up here
    Getting turned up, yeah, yeah

    So la da di da di
    We like to party
    Dancing with Molly*
    Doing whatever we want
    This is our house
    This is our rules

    And we can’t stop
    And we won’t stop
    Can’t you see it’s we who own the night?
    Can’t you see it’s we who ’bout that life?

    And we can’t stop
    And we won’t stop
    We run things, things don’t run we
    Don’t take nothing from nobody
    Yeah, yeah

    It’s our party we can do what we want
    It’s our party we can say what we want
    It’s our party we can love who we want
    We can kiss who we want
    We can sing what we want

    It’s our party we can do what we want to
    It’s our house we can love who we want to
    It’s our song we can sing if we want to
    It’s my mouth I can say what I want to
    Say yeah, yeah, yeah, ehh

    And we can’t stop, yeah
    And we won’t stop, oh
    Can’t you see it’s we who own the night?
    Can’t you see it’s we who ’bout that life?

    And we can’t stop
    And we won’t stop
    We run things, things don’t run we
    Don’t take nothing from nobody
    Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, ehh

    Still in indecision….

    #1274776
    Avatarsinner69
    Participant

    TBH I think DOC should send this video as a respond to the adsense booting.

    Since I work and earn some money I am willing donate 10 to 15 £ a month to PVR to get rid of dem sticky fingers of google. FUCK’EM!

    #1274777
    Avatarsinner69
    Participant

    It’s our party we can do what we want
    It’s our party we can say what we want
    It’s our party we can love who we want
    We can kiss who we want
    We can sing what we want

    Cant beat this…No 1 for me

    #1274764
    AvatarGeneral Lighting
    Moderator

    also the reference to red paper cups hints is a US cultural reference to a party where many are underage (OK drinking age in some states is 21 or something silly like that) but they use them to share a communally purchased supply of cheap alcohol amongst these younger crowds who would not get served in a liquor store / off license and it prevents “neighbors” from calling 911 and getting the event locked off by armed cops on juvenile safety grounds.

    #1274765
    AvatarGeneral Lighting
    Moderator

    @!sinner69! 552804 wrote:

    TBH I think DOC should send this video as a respond to the adsense booting.

    I find it completely bizzare that the US music industry discovers EDM 20 years too late, and then the tech industry gets jittery about discussions of relatively harmless drug use that have been going on for a similar amount of time.. :crazy:

    #1274778
    Avatarsinner69
    Participant

    Just because of the minors we should not change a thing…they really need a place where they can turn to a get second opinion

    #1274779
    Avatarsinner69
    Participant

    …without being pushed around inside a box of double standards

    #1274766
    AvatarGeneral Lighting
    Moderator

    ironically we have better protection for users of all ages than most USA sites (who will sell the data to any advertiser or anyone who wants it, the EU forbids this) in the short term the URL change would not prevent anyone of any age getting the drugs advice, it would only mean that google ads do not appear there (which isn’t a bad thing anyway). Even the current UK government support drug advice being given to young people, they aren’t closing down talk to frank which for all its flaws is a lot more youth friendly and non judgmental than previous govt funded advice campaigns, if anything it gets criticism for being too informal and flippant for a taxpayer funded site.

    Another problem I’ve seen with ad banners on drug advice sites is they often contain ads for drug testing kits that parents and employers use.

    #1274767
    AvatarGeneral Lighting
    Moderator

    @!sinner69! 552809 wrote:

    …without being pushed around inside a box of double standards

    what I find most annoying (and is probably the greater source of the problem) is that this “regulation” is often being done directly by computers with very few humans involved as thats how Google minimises costs.

    in the UK When I need to clarify a regulation about our community radio with Ofcom (the UK Communications Ministry) all I need to do is telephone or email London and often immediately (or within a few days) I get an answer.

    OK there are things we cannot just change (nor do we want to ) like our allocated frequency or how much format should be music/speech/aimed at ethnic communities etc but Ofcom are 100% transparent about the rules and in some cases willing to make pragmatic exceptions to them knowing we are a small volunteer run station. (for instance they did not pull us up for a faulty transmitter that put a nasty noise onto the airwaves and eventually knocked out the station altogether for half a day, which is techically a breach of UK and EU law)

    I read recently that Google staff in USA are being taken to work from their home address in unmarked buses with security guard to shield them from the effects of the economic depression and possible security/safety risks. OK I understand why this is done but surely it must also cause them to become detached from wider society?

    #1274792
    AvatarPat McDonald
    Participant

    I would just point out that doing option 3 assumes Google will say “Oh, that’s OK, you can have a mirror and let people access sex and drugs information to people we got you through adsense…”

    Google could just turn round and say “We don’t think you understand, we don’t push drugs or sex, you can’t have the money”.

    I suggest you check the small print REALLY good before splitting the forum because it could turn out to be a non-starter.

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