Forums Music Sound Equipment first rig costings

This topic contains 27 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by Avatar YoungOne June 16, 2012 at 11:25 pm.

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 28 total)
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  • #1051321
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    boomshaka
    Participant

    so if i were to try and build a rig are these all the big components id need?

    input/decks
    crossover
    amplifiers
    drivers

    am i missing any vital pieces other than wires etc?

    ive read through the material in this forum and so far seem to have a grasp of what bits are needed (currently looking at costings! loooking at over agrand so far for 3×18″ drivers,2 tops,2 amps,crossover etc…

    where theres a will theres a way.

    feel free to laugh at my lack of knowledge aslong as you fill in the gaos for me! haha

    cheers guys!

    #1242670
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    DaftFader
    Participant

    generator (to power it), limiter (to protect speakers), EQ (for sound quality) but not essentual.

    #1242659
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    sinner69
    Participant

    A mixer?

    #1242660
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    sinner69
    Participant

    some par lamps + black lights + strobo?

    #1242671
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    DaftFader
    Participant

    @!sinner69! 446200 wrote:

    A mixer?

    yeah how did i miss that! LOL

    #1242672
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    DaftFader
    Participant

    if you’re doing outdoor events then something to cover it all up with to stop it getting damaged by rain.

    #1242661
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    sinner69
    Participant

    @Kung Fu Fader 446204 wrote:

    if you’re doing outdoor events then something to cover it all up with to stop it getting damaged by rain.

    yes,that too

    #1242665
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    Raj
    Participant

    a table to put it on/under and cabinets to fit the drivers in, electric cabling, connectors, earthing spike for the genny, fire extinguishers, ideally racks to transport the amps in and flightcases for the rest, mixing desk [as opposed to a djmixer]

    think something essential is missing but can’t think what just now….

    #1242681
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    boomshaka
    Participant

    nice one! thought it would be good to get a list together of everything needed. oing to be expensive but between enough of us should be possible.

    just going toget knee deep in some more sound tech reading. am i right a crossover is just a set of filters to split the signal in to frequencies for the various drivers? also does a 4 channel crossover mean there are 4 outputs, to 4 amps to 4 set of drivers?

    #1242678
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    Minghead
    Participant

    righto here we go!

    speakers
    leads for speakers
    something to put the speakers on – palletts etc (if your doing indoor & outdoor)
    amps
    amp rack
    crossover
    a van
    generator
    gerry cans
    scaffolding
    a table
    2 decks
    2 cd decks (mainly if your doing profesional gigs)
    deck light
    monitors
    mixer
    a distro
    Good quality cabling – trust me you can have the best rig in the world but if you bought your power cable & 4 ways from tesco it will show!
    a well equipped tool box
    “disco” lights & a lazer
    tarpaulin
    lots of cable ties
    cable boxes
    trussing
    flight cases

    i think that would be about it!

    #1242679
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    Minghead
    Participant

    ohh and also spare needles!

    the best bit of advice ever given to me was by the mutant dance crew (if any of you can remember them) and that was “be self sufficant” and in the free party game this is soooooo true its unbelieveable!

    so i pass it to you!

    be self sufficiant!

    #1242668
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    cheeseweasel
    Participant

    Ratchet straps so your speakers don’t get moshed over and fall on people.

    #1242680
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    Minghead
    Participant

    @cheeseweasel 446253 wrote:

    Ratchet straps so your speakers don’t get moshed over and fall on people.

    good thinking bat man! and if your a bumpkin a stick to support the speakers so when the shite power trance comes on the rig dont fall on your amps!

    theres a youtube vid of that happening somewhere in norfolk when there playing some horrendus bob marley shite power trance remix, complete shambles!

    #1242669
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    Southcaver
    Participant

    I’m putting a cheap rig together at the moment.
    just paid £20 for a crossover,
    £30 for a 1000w amp
    £27 for 2x 15 inch scoops (with drivers)
    and my mate has most of the other stuff.
    and can borrow a genny from work.
    it can be done on the cheap if you check the classifieds and ebay!!

    #1242682
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    boomshaka
    Participant

    @southcaver 446272 wrote:

    I’m putting a cheap rig together at the moment.
    just paid £20 for a crossover,
    £30 for a 1000w amp
    £27 for 2x 15 inch scoops (with drivers)
    and my mate has most of the other stuff.
    and can borrow a genny from work.
    it can be done on the cheap if you check the classifieds and ebay!!

    this has massively boosted my efforts!! tesco value free party! thanks for all the replies, can certainly see it all coming together. thinking something along the lines of 3×1850 horns then not sure about tops? what would be a good top to build? and how many would be needed? two, or would that be too much top end? getting excited!

    #1242666
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    Raj
    Participant

    crossover breaks the signal into frequency bands which are fed to amps then speakers

    so in my rig I have 2 4way xovers feeding one pair CD [constant directivity] horns for the high, one pair 12″ drivers for high mid, one pair 15″ drivers for low mid and one pair of paired 18″ drivers for bass [yes thats 4 18″ drivers for the bottom end] because I use 4 way stereo on the rig. All of my drivers are in radiator cabs

    the xovers in question are the behringer ones and when I dont want the bass bins we sometimes use the rig on a 3 way split which is handled by just one xover for the whole rig

    make sure you get a good frequency range by making sure your cabs cover the full frequency range [this is done via the specs for the drivers and their thiele small parameters used to design suitable cabs for them]

    i also carry a spade at free parties [nothing less attractive than shit everywhere] and below is a packing list I wrote for someone a few years back.

    Generator stuff
    – the generator [make sure it has the right oil level, that you know how to start it, how to work any power distros it come with it and that it starts before you pack it for the party]
    – generator power cables: hire gennies come with various kinds of connections so make sure you have the right plugs to power your rig
    – generator earth spike: this is vital IMO and easy to make. It could literally save your life one day so make one and ALWAYS ALWAYS USE IT
    – generator fuel- make sure you know what it takes and have asmuch as you will need on hand for the party; also ensure you have the correct containers for storing it
    – funnel for filling the genny: you will likely need one so either have one at the ready or learn how to improvise one

    Tent stuff
    – tent poles
    – tent connectors
    – tent canvas
    – spikes for tying it down
    – rope for tying it down
    – hammer for using with the pegs
    – cable ties [big and strong is what we recommend]

    Rig stuff
    – decks and a mixer [vinyl and or cds]
    – a table for your decks boink.gif
    – a mixing desk for the rig [we consider this essential as it gives you more detailed control of the sound output]
    – amplifiers and speakers and crossovers etc as required by the soundsystem setup
    – the cables to connect all of the above – make sure you have them all as it would be real frustrating to get there and find you are one short… becky.gif
    – a light for the decks and maybe another if you are setting up after dark….
    – a pallet for the amps [keeps them dry]
    – pallets for the speaker stacks
    – power distributions to power it all idea1.gif nothing worse than being short ot 13a plugs
    – decorations
    – gaffer tape
    – ratchet straps for securing the speaker stacks
    – monitor amp and speakers
    – spare needles for the decks

    Lighting stuff
    – stand for lights
    – lights or lasers
    – dmx controller
    – cables to connect the lights
    – power distros for lighting equipment
    – smoke machine
    – smoke machine fluid

    Health and safety stuff

    {this is the stuff that marks the difference between serious and pretend party crews in my opinion; serious party crews should have it for both their own safety and that of their punters boink.gif }
    – fire extinguishers [powder or CO2] in case of fire in the equipment – 1kg or 2 kg should be ideal for most small rigs
    – first aid kit for at least 50 people or as many as you are expecting at the party – venues are ideally pretty darn remote and first aid must be possible
    – first aider [preferably with a current certificate but experience counts for a lot – if you dont have one on your crew make a point of asking your punters if any of them would be able to help in an emergency as you dont want to be finding that shit out when someone is bleeding everywhere]
    – bin bags bring twice as many as you think you will need or one for every person you are expecting to turn up – some sites need cleaning before the party starts and not having bin liners is a pain
    – water containers for crew and punters to drink if they orget water/ run out of it a 25l container is cheap to buy and easy to move – remember to fill it idea1.gif
    – spade for burying shit – who wants to stand in that and unburied it can cause serious enviromental pollution – always have a prominently displayed spade for people to use should they forget to bring their own
    – midge repellant

    A vehicle to move it all in crazy_freak.gif
    There is an essential equipment list. In addition to that we also carry spares and toolkits for those little disasters which need to fixed during a party. So there are two toolboxes, spare cables, spare connectors, to name but a few

    #1242667
    Avatar
    Raj
    Participant

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]80689[/ATTACH] this is the picture of our current rig which, with all its stuff, fits in a large van and its loud enough to shake the ground a good distance away when I turn the rig right up :weee:

    its the end result of many years of rig owning and upgrading btw – we started with 2 peavey full range speakers and an amp and decks :laugh_at: and that fitted in a car!!!

    #1242663
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    Dan Ooops
    Participant

    I would seriously recommend flightcasing the decks!!
    Raj – you are a legend…great list, nice rig….way to go dude 🙂

    #1242664
    Avatar
    Dan Ooops
    Participant

    here’s my tuppence worth – and I gave this to Tunnel Crew 10 years ago at Steart Beach:

    If you are a “crew”, then buy a set of flight cases and needles as ” the sound’s” and use decks from the DJs in the crew – preferably one from each in case of seizure. Always case them and use the pooled needles – that way noone can moan about needles being fcuked after a party, and if stuff does get pigged, hopefully, no single DJ loses his (or her) decks. That’s the way Ooops! did it – there must have been six or eight sets of decks between us, and every one was always happy.

    THat’s one penny – the other one is about vans….
    If you are going to have your own van, then make sure it is insured correctly – no point in getting away with the party and then loosing gear due to insurers not paying out in case of accident, fire, theft etc. of course, if you will be hiring vans then there is no problem…let me give you an example – Ooops! van was registered to Mr X and Mr Y Trading as Ooops! Sound System (so the police always knew who was doing the party when they ran the plates) and was insured for the purpose of moving sound equipment around.

    Might throw some more ideas down later – but good luck, and why not let us know how you are getting on.

    Peace

    #1242657
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    General Lighting
    Moderator

    @cheeseweasel 446253 wrote:

    Ratchet straps so your speakers don’t get moshed over and fall on people.

    @minghead 446262 wrote:

    good thinking bat man! and if your a bumpkin a stick to support the speakers so when the shite power trance comes on the rig dont fall on your amps!

    theres a youtube vid of that happening somewhere in norfolk when there playing some horrendus bob marley shite power trance remix, complete shambles!

    Tunnel Crew’s rig got moshed over in 2004 for lack of supports behind it. Not got video of the acutal incident but probably have off the aftermath. I had put on the power for them earlier on a most sketchy supply with a earth fault (Madcake actually thought I’d took a hit of 230V off it and was quite concerned but my reflexes and past experience meant I had actually let go of and dropped the fuselink on the floor as soon as I saw the spark) – at the time I was videoing them from a platform and the next shot is of the camera still running with me legging it down the platform stairs as it came down with such a crash I thought the power had blown!

    #1242683
    Avatar
    YoungOne
    Participant

    @General Lighting 475688 wrote:

    the next shot is of the camera still running with me legging it down the platform stairs as it came down with such a crash I thought the power had blown!

    Thats somewhat worrying :crazy: lol
    i belive someone should sticky a thread on the equipment required, it would be grand 🙂

    #1242658
    Avatar
    General Lighting
    Moderator

    I’ve done this (not sure why we didn’t earlier) but the forums have been moved around recently.

    Also a few things have changed a lot in recent years. One is that the colours used in electric cable for fixed installations but may include bigger distro boards, custom mains equipment etc) have changed to the same used in flex (i.e brown, black, grey for 3 phases and blue for neutral). Cable is what is in fixed installations (its solid cores or thicker strands) and flex (as its name suggests is thinner strands of wire) and is what most of your equipment gets power from, even if folk refer to it as a mains cable 😉

    another is that if you got a UK driving license after a certain date the maximum weight of vehicle you can drive is 3 500kg, and that is the vehicle and its contents.

    Older people can drive bigger ones up to 7 500 kg but this was a hangover when they thought there would be nuclear war and everyone put into the army or public services and have to drive big vans whether they were young, old, boys or girls. When in the 1990s it became apparent there wasn’t going to be any nuclear war and the folk what were going to drop bombs on us instead were going to drive the lorries full of all the consumer stuff we could buy instead of having war (but the rich nations weren’t sure about “them foreign lot” still) our countries in Europe changed all the traffic laws.

    if you break these (as well as the insurance stuff Dan mentioned), the cops can call in the specialist traffic authority such as VOSA. the worst case is your driver is taken to cells and the vehicle to the pound, minus the rig which the cops will either seize as evidence (if the party is illegal) or leave out at the side of the road expecting your crew to get back home as best as they can.

    Also if you have switched to digital media and are at any event where the legality of licensing arrangements is doubtful, it would make sense (especially given the relatively low cost of computer hardware) that any computers you take there for music are not the containing the only copy of stuff like critical business info on, your college work, irreplaceable pictures of your child/cat/dog or anything you would be worried about a policeman seeing or being discussed in Court.

    Whilst cops are a bit more “PC/human rights” than they used to be, and most are sensible enough to realise that fucking up someones long term life chances over a minor licensing crime by delaying return of a computer is not just against human rights but stupid in the long term (people are more driven to serious/organised crime that way), something like a list of names and money amounts (even if it is actually 100% above board) could be viewed as evidence of the rig/computer etc all being bought by drugs money and be the difference between you being able to pick the computer up from the cop shop the next day or them coming for you and putting the door in off the hinges.

    cops are also smarter with regard to computers these days (a lot since the 1990s are ex-IT industry staff who got laid off) and do know the difference between a machine just used for music and for other stuff. there are some very clever ones around and they are often just SNT bobbies, not the specialist computer crimes staff. It does also however mean that should you get in bother with cops for suspicion of organising a illegal rave, they can (and sometimes do) come to your house in early morning and take away family computers as they expect they might also find stuff there, and anything encrypted or that “daddy put there and wife/kids do now know about” is automatically suspect.

    Family Men from their mid 20s/30s to my age have had to explain to their wife and kids why the family PC as well as their own personal kit has been taken off by the cops as part of a investigation into a rave so as well as being judged by the Courts for “hanging round with kids when you are nearly or over 40 and worse encouraging them into crime” they will be judged by their family as well and I’m sure you can realise how bad this could look in a family environment.

    #1242674
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    MadPsy
    Participant

    here’s a decent pricing guide….. £1 per watt. Depends what kit you’re after, but brand new and semi tour grade is around about that mark. Second hand around 50p / watt. Remember though if you’re pushing more watts into the same speakers it works on a 10 LOG scale, so for twice the pressure level (dB) you need 10x the watts. If you doule your watts through another set of speakers that’s a different story, but 500w compared to 1000w into the same driver does not equal twice the ‘loudness’ – that only works into another driver. Therefore, it’s all down to the number of drivers in each band.

    #1242675
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    MadPsy
    Participant

    PS Raj – loving the kitchen sink… whos’ is that ??? seems you got the list well and truly ticked for that party anyway 😀

    #1242662
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    thelog
    Participant

    That list should have its own website lol

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