Forums Music Sound Engineering The BOG STANDARD, BASIC Rig – for the rave planner (not the electrician) Re: The BOG STANDARD, BASIC Rig – for the rave planner (not the electrician)

#1278263
Anonymous
Quote:
No requirement for multiple generators – Power requirements within reach of single phase generator.

Portable and able to fit single wheel base van.

Robustness.

SIMPLE.

Low level of spread – focus on a nearfield space for up to 400-500 people, but this number can be reduced by 100 or so in the interests of keeping residents around 500+ m from the party from involving you-know-who.

SUB-BASS. Enormous Bass, and good accommodation of soaring atmospheric pads (trebble/mid), but mostly the deep bass, so you can physically feel low frequencies. The sort of thing that can keep the sub-bass on the verse of Grooverider’s ‘Imagination (Part 3)’ going for two bars at a volume that can be felt in the body.

Seriously, chap, my advice would be to stick to what you know best (management) and allow a decent sound engineer or hire company to sort out your sound for you…

400-500 people…outside?

To get “enormous” sub-bass for 400-500 people outdoors would require a very large system…probably *at least* 8 double 18″ bandpass cabinets.
But you should ask yourself if you really want (or need) sub bass at all…sub(s) usually go below 50Hz…but bear in mind that most bass bins will go down to around 45Hz (at least) and anything lower than that requires huge amounts of power and that sub frequency sound is the stuff that travels over huge distances.

Also most dance music (Techno, Trance, House, etc) rarely has much activity below 40-45Hz in any case…Dub/Reggae systems might need something lower, but that is the exception rather than the rule.
In general, you want to concentrate on the “kick” and dynamics…a good system that performs well around 80-200Hz will always sound cleaner and punchier than one where all the power is concentrated in the below 50Hz range.

Also you are unlikely to fit a rig for 500 people (especially a big one), plus a *big* generator (required for those big amps for driving all those big speakers) and all ancilliary equipemnt for a party in a single rear-wheel van (certainly not one with a 3.5t GVW limit…as that will only have a total payload of around 1700Kg, at best!).

No equipment is fully rainproof…Ply built, horn loaded cabinets (where the drivers are either hidden or well recessed off the front baffle) will withstand a reasonable amount of water/weather abuse…But of course these are both bigger, heavier and more costly…they also mostly require more expertise to get the best from them.

All the other stuff you are saying about compressors, etc just goes to show how little understanding you have of the requirements…
All things being equal, a sound engineer with a decent soundsystem will manage to keep his sound fairly localised whereas you will be distributing your sound liberally around the neighbourhood…In other words, your party will attract more unwanted attention than another run by someone who knows his beans.

Yes, it is possible to have a decent sound without compressors, enhancers, delays, etc…BUT you have to know your kit and how to set it up…You certainly will need a crossover of some sort and you may as well have an LMS which will include all that and even some basic eq…The space (and cost) is more or less the same…Again, though, you’ll have to learn to use it properly!

Quote:
Do I need a compressor? If not, I dont want one. Do I need an equalizer, mixer, custom crossovers, limiter, 10 Unit racks, reinforcement things, horn things, scoop bins, ported radiator things, folded this or that, multiple amps, drivers, flightcases, keith chegwin, engineers mixer, 3-phase power, sound engineer, electrician…

It all seems a bit much for a temporary, hedonistic rave party in a forest. Where people are more concerned with hugging eachother and drinking water than they are about compression ratios…

For example, if someone asked me “how can I make the simplest possible sound system for a rock gig in a forest” I would say ‘get 1. someone with a musical ear to do the ballancing, 2. guitar amps (minimum 40 watt, should be more), bass amp (speaker), drum kit, mic, mic speaker’ – and that would be that. Yes, different models are different, and ballancing them would be difficult, but even that doesnt need a whole lot.

As a sound engineer I have to disagree…Firstly a rock band has a backline…mostly amplified and if you have just that plus a mic/speaker for the vocalist(s) then you are looking at covering, perhaps, 50 people….If you go to Glastonbury (for example) and to one of the smaller venues (say the Croisant Neuf tent) they have a full circa 5Kw system in there for about 500 capacity….And the only reason it isn’t bigger is that they run of solar/wind power so have to have batteries to drive the inverters…

Your DJs will want a mixer and decks and/or turntables..you will need a stand that is rigid enough to be safe and secure (scaffolding or warehouse racking is good as it folds up)…You may want a limiter to stop over enthusiastic DJs from destroying your speakers first time out…a limiter/compressor is way cheaper than reconing 16 bass drivers and 4 compression units!
Flightcases help to prevent your delicate kit getting destroyed in the van or by the mud while you are setting up…
You will need some lighting, if not for the crowd, at least for the DJs and crew to be able to see what is going on….takes more power, remember.

And you will become the sound engineer…believe me, it is a job all by itself at the party…you will also become genny mechanic/refueler, roadie, van packer and driver chief negotiator with landowners/police and many other things, too.

So, as I said…if your forte is finding a venue and organising the party, why not let someone else do the sound? Someone whose forte is just that!

If, though, you are determined, then start with your generator…The biggest practical easy to transport generator is aboout 5Kw…So you will be constarined by the power of that. Allow about 1kw for lights, mixer, decks, etc (with a little in reserve) and you then have about 4kw to work with…That equates to about 4 750w/ch amps. Say something such as QSC RMX2450s
You will want perhaps one pair of mid-tops and 2 pairs of bass bins and one pair of monitors…I’d stick with something good, but simple.
You haven’t specified a budget, but if you can find OHM TRS212/218s with a pair of TRS115 for monitors (and backup/supplemetary mid-tops) you would be doing fine. Easy to set up, reliable and decent sound. Probably cover around 250 people with that. As I said, you’ll need a crossover/LMS and a Behringer DCX2450 would be fine, cheap, mostly reliable and sounds good…
Aim for around £4k for the cabinets, another £1200-1500 for the amps/LMS and another £1000 for decks, mixer and cables. Generator about £400ish, another £500-1000 for anciliieries (jerry cans, deck stands, LED lighting, etc) and you should be ready to go for about £8k not including transport.