well, it seems that ione thing both scenes have in common is the “im more underground than you are” one upmanship which is pretty rife, especially between systems (albeit in a half joking pisstake way).

I don’t think its as much a one upmanship, is conflicting scene values on what exactly “underground” is. Underground is a very subjective term, I’m sure we can all agree, and I think that with our scenes having such varied backgrounds and total differences in the popularity of various genres and practical external factors, that our respective scenes have different defintions of “underground” as well as different defintions of “hardcore.” Its just fun to try and figure out exactly what the other guy means when they say it.

I wasnt meaning it like that….I just think that MOH and this AZ hardcore sounds very similar and thusly would class them as the same thing and MOH is not exactly underground as you can see from the type of festivals they put on. That is why I classs them as commercial as a lot of money is put into the gigs.

As mentioned above, I’m just trying to figure out how our scenes have different reasoning. You said MOH is commercial, because they put a lot of money into their gigs. But the hardcore samples you listened to are commercial because of their sound, and similar style to MOH? Personally, here in AZ that MOH stuff wouldn’t fly. Its the type of “hardcore” that gets played on radio stations (The local one called “Energy” here, has been stealing venues from our scene and is more of a threat than the cops) along with “club” house and stuff on MTV. A different group of people listen to that type of dance music in major clubs we have downtown, than the group of people who go to underground events. Regardless of the popularity of various genres, it seems wierd to class one group as commercial because of their finances, and another group because of its sound.

and as with any genre there are smaller artists….like the ones you mentioned. It was a bit of an exageration saying it is made by some random guy in his house…..that track that i gave you was in fact as a guy i met online made it in fruity loops, so its not a great track just the first one i could find hosted online. TBH I dont see why youl wouldnt want to listen to music produced at home, if the guy has the equiptment what difference does it make if he produced it at home or not.

I had a problem with the “random guy” not the producing at home. All of the tracks that are produced in AZ are produced at the artists homes; there are no where near anyone big enough to have their own studio. Most artists here only produce a few hundred CDs, some of our headliners more because they travel out of state.

While AZ hardcore may be very underground it is IMO very similar in sound to the stuff I linked. The tracks I linked to were just ones I saw at the time…this, is more similar I think. I’m not saying I don’t like it I do….just I prefer “french hardcore” because of the rolling basslines and the reduced cheese factors.

I think you hit the nail right on the head. Well, except for the samples sounding similar, your sample seems to stick out like a sore thumg to me, and I figured that mine would to you too. Our scenes have INVERSE opinions of what hardcore is. The “french” hardcore I sampled with the rolling basslines (Dnb what?) would be considered pretty cheesy in Arizona, while the hardcore I sampled is considered evil hardcore, the least cheesy of all, here. I’m sure it somehow goes back to different patterns of music and which styles have been popular such and such long to determine whats considered what. Ya know?