Subutex

[deep]

Does anyone know where can I buy Subutex online?

[MKP]

What is it? Do they shrink you and attach your feet to a plastic base? :D

[Andy]

'Subutex (buprenorphine hydrochloride) and Suboxone tablets (buprenorphine hydrochloride and naloxone hydrochloride) is approved for the treatment of opiate dependence. Subutex and Suboxone treat opiate addiction by preventing symptoms of withdrawal from heroin and other opiates.'

Q&A on this substance (http://www.fda.gov/cder/drug/infopage/subutex_suboxone/subutex-qa.htm)

[globalloon]

TBH, i'd be surprised if there was any regularly available on the internet... it is very difficult to get it prescribed in the UK, and prescriptions are often stopped immediately if a clean urine/blood sample cannot be produced.

In France, however, you can go to a GP in any town with a reasonable number of heroin users and just ask for a scrip. It costs about £6 to see doc and under £1 per fairly large pill.

most opiate replacements that are sold on the black market move between addicts that know each other...they need money NOW, waiting for paypal (or even having a bank card) is not an option, so internet sales are unlikely. This is a carefully controlled drug. Shame that wasn't the case with Shipman's medicine cabinet:(

[Unregistered]

Go to a GP in France and get a scrip for Subutex but how easy is that?

Do you have to register with the GP or can you just walk in off the street so to speak? Is there a waiting list?

- (Iam desperate and the waiting list here is 6-8 weeks+)

[globalloon]

all GPs in France are private... that means you can just walk in... but you have to pay the doc for his time and pay for the 'scrip and pay for each individual tablet (about 2 euros each for subutex i believe)

this doesn't happen in every town or city... so you need to choose a town with a significant heroin problem... try Beziers? Marseille?

and a lot of doctors might still block you... so choose one who is likely to have a high number of herion addicts visiting their surgery and you'll stand a better chnace of getting the scrip you want

Subutex still ain't a wonder cure, but it's effects offer the best relief from withdrawl that I've heard of

and good luck

[Unregistered]

In France 8mg of subutex or buprenorphine costs only 3 or 4 EUROS on the street...

[Unregistered]

does anyone know where can I buy subutex pills online?
No dont know were you can get um on line, but why not try your docter im on subutex and at first couldnt get anyone to prescribe but if you keep on to um and show um you do want to get clean then they will help. its worth a try, why do you want um on line?

[globalloon]

No dont know were you can get um on line, but why not try your docter im on subutex and at first couldnt get anyone to prescribe but if you keep on to um and show um you do want to get clean then they will help. its worth a try, why do you want um on line?

good effort mate... stick with it and good luck

i can see why people try other routes of getting sub tho... in lots of parts of the country there's a long waiting list and as I'm sure you know, sickness gets worse if left untreated

[buprenorphine]

Oi,
does anyone know where can I buy subutex pills online?
hello man.. have you found somwhere to by subutex online. or if you have a lot you mabe can send me as many you can.. greetings from a subutex addict in sweden.. peace and rave on

[Unregistered]

in france it cost for 8MG of subutex or buprenorphine 3 or 4 EUROS in the street only...

hello. can´t you buy an 100 subutex and send it to sweden/ thanks

[deep]

I haven't found it anywhere online.This thing about buying it in France is possible.I even searched in Lisboa for it,but no use without prescription.I'm from Montenegro,Yugoslavia,and here that medicine isn't approved by our authorities.So if any one is in position to buy in France just let me know.

[General Lighting]

PLEASE BE CAREFUL - all of you.

you are discussing on an open messageboard potentially importing a controlled substance across national borders. you can't easily buy it online because people can get nicked (or you'd just hand over some euros to get a nasty letter from the customs authorities).

whilst its not as controlled as methadone (for instance in the UK it is class C like cannabis) penalties vary, and bringing stuff across borders is nearly always treated more seriously than even simple posession in one country.

cops and customs authorities may not believe you are "just trying to get off heroin" - to them you are strill a drug trafficking gang.

this board, like all message boards is open to all. cops also read here as well as ravers and drug users.

In some countries, the security forces also routinely any monitor net traffic which may relate to the dealing of drugs. This can be a lot easier than you think, in most EU countries the infrastructure for internet connections is still provided by the national telephone companies with strong links and alliegances to government.

I get the impression you are all after subutex to get well and have a better life and can understand why there is some desperation here, but please do not incriminate yourselves and get into further trouble!

Incidentally I found this whilst researching the substance - I don't understand much Swedish but it may be of use to the Swedish poster.



Måndag 28 juni 2004, 8.00

Subutex finns på svarta marknaden

Subutex är en modern variant av Metadon, som sedan tidigare används för att – strängt kontrollerat – behandla heroinmissbrukare. Nu sprids Subutex på den svarta marknaden i Göteborg. Många socialt fungerande personer står just nu i kö för att avgiftas från det heroinliknande läkemedlet. Det här är något vi länge varnat för, säger Karina Stein, vårdenhetschef för avgiftningsavdelning 605 och för metadonprogrammet i Göteborg. För Erik Blomstrand, stf chef för narkotikaroteln, kom det som en nyhet att det finns folk som går direkt på subutexmissbruk utan att först missbruka heroin. (Källa: Göteborgspostens nätupplaga, söndag 040627, ©Netdoktor.se)

Mer om information om hälsa från NetDoktor.se (http://se.yahoo.com/news/?http://www.netdoktor.se/)


as for deep, can you not register with a doctor in PT to get the prescription? Perhaps if more people start moving around EU for better or more appropriate treatment, then finally the health ministries may realise that some treatments should be harmonised! We are after all the same human beings whatever nation we are in.

Personally I think all EU-nations should instruct their health authorities to prescribe subutex as required, but unfortunately the politicians don't have courage to take this step :(

[cliffchuff]

a word of warning as an agonist subutex willkick off any opiates present from your neuro-receptors precipatingimmediate withdrawel a fucking killer cluck, make sure you are clucking before you take it to ensure you only get the positive effects, its a bout 50% of a heroin high and leaves you mentall/emotionally clear which for anyone using meth or gear to smother emotional stuff may not be fun.

[globalloon]

a word of warning as an agonist subutex willkick off any opiates present from your neuro-receptors precipatingimmediate withdrawel a fucking killer cluck

source for that please?

most smack addicts i know use both subutex and H in the same day... subutex to help them through a long night, and H as per usual in the day

[cliffchuff]

I'm a drug worker and work with people prescribed subutex. and have had training in its use.

it is a partial agonist, if their are opiates in your system it will kick them off, sounds like your friends are already clucking mildly (the herion has stopped working) as heroin only stays active for a short time (up to 12 hours) herion taken at night will be out of the system by morning.
when titrating people we ask them not to use heroin for 12 hours prior.

if they try the same pattern ofuse with a dose of methadone (higher doses taking longer to loose effectiveness) they will get a fucking nasty surprise.

all this is of course dose dependant. with 16 ml of subutex giving about 90-95% blockage of other opoids and 8ml giving 50-65% lower doses have lower blocking effects this is why when it is first prescribed you start on 2 ml and work up to the required dose over a few days.

as a partial agonist subutex will stop other opiods working and make anyonetaking them sick(physically) again only if higher doses are used lower amounts will allow the corresponding amount of high by not covering all the opoid receptors in the brain.

methadone is a full agonist but gives no high, subutex gives a partial high, the company reps say 50% but they are selling the suff innit because of this it should also be 50% easier to come off or withdraw from...

[General Lighting]

I've heard the same stuff cliffchuff says from two lads who have just quit after a spell in HMP. Although they aren't professional drug workers they have far more experience of opiates then I have - it was got them to the stage they got sent down in the first place...

[globalloon]

all this is of course dose dependant. with 16 ml of subutex giving about 90-95% blockage of other opoids and 8ml giving 50-65%
lower doses have lower blocking effects this is why when it is first prescribed you start on 2 ml and work up to the required dose over a few days.


that'll be why i was confused!

It's very hard to get a prescription around here, and even people with a hefty habit will only get prescribed maybe 4ml, and that'll be cut down rather than increased

it sounds like the docs don't know what they're doing in this area

(the only person I know who has successfully got and stayed clean went to a private clinic in London and was getting a much higher dose to quit H)

[cliffchuff]

obviously the pharm companies want us to prescribe as high as possible £$£$£ but a 16 ml will stop use on top while someone gets stable if they are given support during this time they will be reduced to 8 after a while and then randomly tested to see if they are using on top.(though it shouldn't matter if they are) there are doses of 2 ml, 1 ml and even lower like 0.4 ml which help slowly enable people to stop.

hope that helps...

the pharm comp say there is no overdose limit with subutex (unless mixed with benzo's alcohol or other downers) and Frence mortality rates seem to reflect this. :devilish:

[Unregistered]

source for that please?

most smack addicts i know use both subutex and H in the same day... subutex to help them through a long night, and H as per usual in the day

Thought subs didnt hit u after gear

[Jamie009]

hello man.. have you found somwhere to by subutex online. or if you have a lot you mabe can send me as many you can.. greetings from a subutex addict in sweden.. peace and rave on


PRATT!!

[globalloon]

Måndag 28 juni 2004, 8.00

Subutex finns på svarta marknaden Subutex är en modern variant av Metadon, som sedan tidigare används för att – strängt kontrollerat – behandla heroinmissbrukare. Nu sprids Subutex på den svarta marknaden i Göteborg. Många socialt fungerande personer står just nu i kö för att avgiftas från det heroinliknande läkemedlet. Det här är något vi länge varnat för, säger Karina Stein, vårdenhetschef för avgiftningsavdelning 605 och för metadonprogrammet i Göteborg. För Erik Blomstrand, stf chef för narkotikaroteln, kom det som en nyhet att det finns folk som går direkt på subutexmissbruk utan att först missbruka heroin. (Källa: Göteborgspostens nätupplaga, söndag 040627, ©Netdoktor.se)
this article is saying that Subutex is available on the black market in Gotenburg, Sweden (a country with some of the harshest drug penalties in Europe)

according to the author, people who are functioning addicts (that is, who hold down jobs, relationships etc) are 'queueing up' for black market subutex... I'm not sure how or where they queue, but presumabley the black market pills are preferable to handing yourself into the police

Karina Stein is a holier than thou sort who informs the reader "we've warned people about this sort of thing [drugs] for a long time", while Erik Blomstrand makes the unfeasible claim that people who have never taken H may become addicted to it by trying black market subutex, in spite of medical evidence to the contrary

A typically conservative (with a small c) swedish viewpoint on drugs

my swedish partner's 22 year old sister was saying recently and was genuinely shocked that a bloke walking down the road could be smoking a spliff (he was walkin in front of us, the smell was gorgeous)

[Unregistered]

PRATT!!
why do you want it?its not fun!i just want off,anyone know how or what the long term side effects are?

[e_babes]

Oi,
does anyone know where can I buy subutex pills online?

You can buy Subutex online. But all the sites I know only sell the 2mg tablet which is useless for pain/heroin/morphine detox -

I would prefer if you bought them off a mate personally if you know what they look like etc Only because you are importing a substance. The worst that could happen is you get a letter from Customs saying its been confiscated. Or they invite you to come and collect it - which is a dumb idea.

TBH - I often buy other things from the net such as valium to help with my addiction etc

[e_babes]

I'm a drug worker and work with people prescribed subutex. and have had training in its use.

it is a partial agonist, if their are opiates in your system it will kick them off, sounds like your friends are already clucking mildly (the herion has stopped working) as heroin only stays active for a short time (up to 12 hours) herion taken at night will be out of the system by morning.
when titrating people we ask them not to use heroin for 12 hours prior.

if they try the same pattern ofuse with a dose of methadone (higher doses taking longer to loose effectiveness) they will get a fucking nasty surprise.

all this is of course dose dependant. with 16 ml of subutex giving about 90-95% blockage of other opoids and 8ml giving 50-65%
lower doses have lower blocking effects this is why when it is first prescribed you start on 2 ml and work up to the required dose over a few days.

as a partial agonist subutex will stop other opiods working and make anyonetaking them sick(physically) again only if higher doses are used lower amounts will allow the corresponding amount of high by not covering all the opoid receptors in the brain.

methadone is a full agonist but gives no high, subutex gives a partial high, the company reps say 50% but they are selling the suff innit because of this it should also be 50% easier to come off or withdraw from...
Is this the very same CliffChuff I got in touch with on another site?

e_babes

PS - very true what he's saying and what I know and experienced from Drug workers and Subutex itself I cant agree more.

Cliffchuff, as a question from my part, I was on 30mls of methodone and switched to Subutex. I was asked to stop using methodone for 36 hours prior to taking my first dose. You can imagine what "surprise" I got from a 8ml dose! Lets just say I was red raw from sitting in a scoulding hot bath for about an hour trying to warm up with constant gut rot and shivers and the shits to say the least.

I ended up using and using and using until I stopped being ill (which was only 2 hits on a ten pound joey and never went back (second time I tried Subutex this is). Some feedback for you - In my opinion I think that no one with a low pain tollerance like myself should switch to Methodone from subutex at such a high doseage. Something for you to take to work my friend. I dont know if your practice would allow such a switch at high doseage, but mine did. Totally regretful and made my situation worse. Also the "clarity" in my head and being use to the "dull" feeling from methodone was not great. I so wanted to be prescribed Valium but aparently this is dangerous for your heart on Subutex.

Being a depressive, someone who likes depressants to those who need further clarity, I enjoy my methodone, I enjoyed (past tense) my heroin and valium, my klonopins and other wonderful benzos.

Some treatment works for some, and not for others. It must be a tough choice to assist someone with - how you do it is beyond me. Being a potential patient of yours im sure I would have pissed someone off to the max. Your braver than most in your choice of work.

Elliot

[captaineddie]

Subutex I tried to get Subutex but came accross a problem with the doctors and chemists in UK you see they have a cartell on keeping drug users going because the chemist gets paid for dispensing detox drugs. You see he is a dealer now the doctors dont understand Subutex and are not encouraged to.

I got a prescription for lots of Subutex to Detox my son one chemist said how did you get this Its not allowed and would not supply me the other did supply and I detoxed my boy. This is a fantastic drug if it is controled it should be given freely to a approved administrator and cut out these money grabing chemists who are not interested in cleaning up our country.

If any parents read this go to your doctor bug him force him to give you a script then get your kid of Heroin as easy as it is to start. Follow the instructions given. All of you who read this dont give up force your doctor to do something.

does anyone know where can I buy subutex online?

[cliffchuff]

Hi e-babes (its me yes) 30 mls meth is around the top end comfort wise for the switch to subutex, generally untill you get your dose up to 16 ml or higher (some go 32) you will feel ill, being safety concious initial advice was to start on 2ml morning and night the first day and gradually increase, experience shows most people do what what you did and give up out of discomfort so generally you try and titrate 8ml first day 12 or 16 the second to reduce the sick time.

you could switch to gear for a day to eliminate the longer detox time associated with meth but that would not be clinically ethical for a project to advise, or you could ask for some other meds to ease the transfer cluck (short benzo sesh?) don't lat a bad experience put you off though, most people I've known do the switch have been happier (except those needing the emotional blur of meth as said earlier)

good luck.

[mrhyper_uk]

were can i buy valium from online ,i,ve tried and there all u.s pharmacys and will not ship them to the u.k.please give the online web site so i can get some to help with my subutex withdrawl.thanx e-babe

[thomasbunyan]

hi peeps i am thinking about going on subutex i am on 30 mls of meth just now should i go a bit lower first

[General Lighting]

hi peeps i am thinking about going on subutex i am on 30 mls of meth just now should i go a bit lower first

have a look from post 25 onwards and you will see posts from both a user (same chap who did our rehab diary and who is on a similar dose to you) and a trained drug worker about dosage levels and the switch from methadone to subutex.

Good luck with trying to get clean..

NB: I am not a doctor/medical professional, I have never been addicted to opiates and this site is not intended to be a substitute for your own primary care team.. so any action you take is at your own risk.... that said AFAIK Elliot is alive and well...

[e_babes]

I suggest reducing more down to 20 - 25 and when you make the switch use gear for about 10 days and then start using Subutex. Please dont make the same mistake as I did and use Subutex after 3 days of not using methodone (like my drug worker said - cunt).

Lets just say that I had to sit in a scoulding hot bath with a bowl to vomit in and some other unpleasanturies.

I believe that drug workers are under this myth that Subutex is a great wonder drug to stop people using on top, unlike methodone. I even managed to overide Naltrexone. I of course admit my stupidity but it can be done!

The gap between methodone and switching to subutex should be as long as a week in my opinion. Meths stays in your body for much longer and when that subutext kicks in you wish you never had taken it. Leave Subutext well alone if you are on meths and try longer than 3 days more like 7 days of no meth, switch to gear and then use Subutex. This is my only thought on helping the switch over to be as comfortable as possible.

Peace

Elliot

[stormerlee]

I wont reveal my name as i do not want to put my job at further risk, but I am hear today because I searched for "Buy Subutex Online" in google. I did this because I think the drug support system does not always meet the expected standard that people with addictions need.

I was never addicted to any kind of drug until I was about 17 years old. I am now 30 yrs old and even more addicted than ever.

Since being about 9 or 10 years old I have suffered with a mysterious ilness, put down as "Migraine".

I suffered with falling asleep in the middle of the streets for years and no support from my family and friends, until one day I came across prescription painkillers and began taking these for pain relief. Dont get me wrong, i tried the doctors, visiting special clinics and having tests done on me. They would put it down to blocked sninas and stress and prescribed steroids, which just made me more ill. After a few years of taking pain killers "Neurofen plus and Kapake" (strong Codiene) I began getting bad stomach cramps and feeling very ill. This was because of the heavy painkiller use and ibuprofen contained in neurofen. I wanted to come off the painkillers but when I told the doctor he just prescribed me "Dehydricodien" pills.

An old friend of 25 years who was an ex heroin addict suggested I try some of his Subutex which he had left. So I did and they worked great, all i needed now was a constant supply. The doctors would not allow me to join the CDT drug clinic because I was not an heroin user. So I aquired some heroin and submitted a urine sample to the clinic. They prescribed me Subutex and I thought great, one step further. I started a new job in IT and got married to a super woman and I now have children and things are looking great.

About 2 months ago my drug worker changed and I was left with a new one I had not met yet as I work 5 days a week. One Saturday morning I was due to collect from the local Chemist but I had a severe migrane that left me unable to collect. I got through the weekend and called my drug worker on the Monday. She got back to me at 4:30 and said If I did not make it (20 miles) from my work to the clinic in 15 minutes then I would of dropped out of treatment and the subutex would be stopped.

This was impossile and so I did not collect. A ltter came the next day telling me I had dropped out of tretment and would have to re-apply. I thought "Il have to go back on painkillers until then". They could not get me an appointment for weeks later and I got some paonkillers, but suddenly they would not work, I began to get withdrawels. I stayed off work ill, The painkilles did nothing. I called the drug clinic who said they can not see me or give me any help because I dropped out of treatment.

I had become dependent on Subutex and nothing else worked. The only solution to prevent me losing my job and my life was heroin. I got some heroin and now I am more addicted than ever.

Why is there no proper support for addicted people who are working?. Why is there no support for people who find them selves addicted to prescription drugs?. Why if you miss an appointment due to an ilness you are taken off the register?
This does not feel like a drugs support team! They tel you , you are supported but they tell you next when you need help that this is all your responsibiliy. Now i am left off work sick, with no subutex, no heroin, no painkillers work!!1.

I feel like taking the subutex has made me more addicted!
So if anyone can get subutex, I would defenatly be happy to see them! I think where the system fails, you should be able to help yourself!

[Agent Subby]

In France 8mg of subutex or buprenorphine costs only 3 or 4 EUROS on the street...
You wont get them that cheap in the UK matey. They are very very sort after especially for peeps in prison because when you're clean from opiates they're very similar to a pethidine hit.

6to 8 weeks witing list for treatment is a fucking disgrace. What area are you from? In the north west you'll probably get scripted within 1 to 2 weeks. Good luck because they are a very usefull tool in opiate recovery especially when they block other opiates from using at about an eight miligram dose and IMO and other peeps opinions they are a much better alternative than methadone. Listen man they'll be never an easy way to get off opiates unless you are dedicated and determined. If you any advice whatsoever on the subject of opiate addiction and i will be nore than happy to assist you. Hoopefully in the not to distant future my new careeer will be inn this field. Good luck. :love: :love:

[Agent Subby]

source for that please?

most smack addicts i know use both subutex and H in the same day... subutex to help them through a long night, and H as per usual in the day

You are quite right globalloon. The only way bupe will put you in acute W/D's is if you have a habit and then suddenly take that first dose of bupe. After that a lot of addicts use both to help them through the night. The trick is to take the smack after the bupe and it will not and I repeat not throw you into WD's.

[Agent Subby]

I'm a drug worker and work with people prescribed subutex. and have had training in its use.

it is a partial agonist, if their are opiates in your system it will kick them off, sounds like your friends are already clucking mildly (the herion has stopped working) as heroin only stays active for a short time (up to 12 hours) herion taken at night will be out of the system by morning.
when titrating people we ask them not to use heroin for 12 hours prior.

if they try the same pattern ofuse with a dose of methadone (higher doses taking longer to loose effectiveness) they will get a fucking nasty surprise.

all this is of course dose dependant. with 16 ml of subutex giving about 90-95% blockage of other opoids and 8ml giving 50-65% lower doses have lower blocking effects this is why when it is first prescribed you start on 2 ml and work up to the required dose over a few days.

as a partial agonist subutex will stop other opiods working and make anyonetaking them sick(physically) again only if higher doses are used lower amounts will allow the corresponding amount of high by not covering all the opoid receptors in the brain.

methadone is a full agonist but gives no high, subutex gives a partial high, the company reps say 50% but they are selling the suff innit because of this it should also be 50% easier to come off or withdraw from...

At bloody least. The first couple of days are very uncomfortable to say the least. A lot of people actually smoke a small amount of gear to help them get through those first days of hell. IMO bupe is prescribed in way too much of a hich dose. 8 mgs is usually easily enough and that amounts acts as a full blocker but please beware if you try to over-ride bupe with gear there will be a strong chancenof ODing on gear, so if you still plan to dabble on gear whilst on bupe then methadone is the better option, hope this helps.

[Agent Subby]

hi peeps i am thinking about going on subutex i am on 30 mls of meth just now should i go a bit lower first

Yes 30 mls is the recommended highest amount before switching over but i got down to 15 mls and it was still difficult. A couple of Valium in the first 2/3 days will help you no end, but you'll be lucky if you get them prescribed for this purpose. What a drug quack wanting to make it easier for addicts? In our dreams.:yawn: :yawn:

[Agent Subby]

that'll be why i was confused!

It's very hard to get a prescription around here, and even people with a hefty habit will only get prescribed maybe 4ml, and that'll be cut down rather than increased

it sounds like the docs don't know what they're doing in this area

(the only person I know who has successfully got and stayed clean went to a private clinic in London and was getting a much higher dose to quit H)
Sorry mate got to disagree with you there. It actually seems like the docs down there actually do know what they are doing. 4 mg's is a perfect dose in most cases because like I've stated before with buprenorphine. Less is actually more and a lower dose is more like a morphine hit.

And anything higher than 8mg's can be a right bitch do get off. And by the way don't forget all subutex is is a huge dose of temgesic (which was 0.2 mg's) and used in the outer Hebridies as hillbilly heroin.

Ive cut and pasted this from an American opiate detox forum so I hope you unerstand what I mean Globalloon.Listen, Michael, your instincts are right. It is EXTREMELY important to start at either 2 mg/bid or 4mg/bid and to not exceed 4 mg/bid during the first 2-3 days. That should cover your withdrawals, and in addition, starting that low means you will have zero problems reducing your dose after 2-3 days and tapering down before you quit. For some reason not fully understood, people who start at 16 mg/day or higher have extreme difficulty tapering down, whereas those who start at 8 mg/day or lower usually feel no or little w/d effects when tapering.

Don't be surprised, by the way, that your doctor wants you on more. He has taken only an 8-hour online course to qualify for Suboxone prescribing rights, and in any event, most doctors know very little about Sub and its effects. They usually way-overprescribe, which then builds a rapid dependence on the Sub in their patients. Many docs will also insist that Sub is not addictive, whereas in the real world we know this is absolutely untrue.

The other thing to remember is, use Sub for no more than 7 days or so, and your post-Sub withdrawal effects will be minimal. Every day extra that you use it will be another 2 days of withdrawal, or so I've found -- and much worse w/d at that.

I've used Sub twice. The first time, I started at 32 mg/day, quickly tapered to 16 mg/day, but then had an agonizing time tapering below that. I was on Sub for a couple of months, and it took me almost a month when I finally quit to feel okay again. I went 14 days without sleep during that post-Sub withdrawal, and the depression and lethargy was paralyzing.

The second time I took sub, for roughly the same size habit (post-operative pain meds), I started at 4 mg/bid and after 2 days went down to 2 mg/bid. By day 7 I was down to 1 mg/day and by day 13 I was off. I never felt any reduction in dose, and only suffered a week or so of relatively-mild insomnia, weakness, and leg-shaking at night. I was able to move my whole house and family into a new house one week after quitting sub -- something I couldn't have even dreamed of doing the first time I quit sub.

But if I had it to do over again (God forbid), I'd take the sub for no more than 5 days. That's plenty of time for most of the drug-of-choice to have left your system, plus the sub you take on your last day will linger with you for another 2-3 days. If I did that, I'm sure I'd be feeling fine in probably less than a week.

So basically if your sub quack tries to titrate you to anything more than say 8/12mgsmax after a few days. Tell 'em to read up on the subject and that I'd rather get off bupe quite easy than a reduction from hell. I sincerely hope this helps a lot of peeps who choose this option and best wishes and good luck. Agent Subby.

[globalloon]

Sorry mate got to disagree with you there. It actually seems like the docs down there actually do know what they are doing. 4 mg's is a perfect dose in most cases

that's what i thought in the first place, but cliffchuff was saying something different. what you've said makes more sense though... reading back i think i misunderstood what cliffchuff was saying

[dubplate d]

Seems to me that it varies in the UK from region to region and peoples preferences vary from person to person. In london i was put on 30mg subutex per day and i wasn't even using pins! I was given a choice between methadone/subutex and could only really go on stuff people had told me or I had read to make that choice.

Personally i think meth makes you too lethargic (in more ways than one!) while Subutex keeps you cool with no real side effects plus you cant use which can only be a good thing. This whole area needs to be addressed because more and more people are using crack and/or Heroin in a kinda recreational way, they are only smoking Heroin maybe and are developing dependence...

The system is "geared" toward heavy Heroin users who inject or people who are sent to clinics to avoid jail etc as opposed to choosing to sort themselves out. I moved to Cornwall to get away from it all and now take only 4mg a day i havnt used for two years but think i'll be on subutex for many more years.....

[Motamba]

why do you want it?its not fun!i just want off,anyone know how or what the long term side effects are?

Serious insomnia if you keep taking them'

Bowl problems from constipation'

[Motamba]

Seems to me that it varies in the UK from region to region and peoples preferences vary from person to person. In london i was put on 30mg subutex per day and i wasn't even using pins! I was given a choice between methadone/subutex and could only really go on stuff people had told me or I had read to make that choice.

Personally i think meth makes you too lethargic (in more ways than one!) while Subutex keeps you cool with no real side effects plus you cant use which can only be a good thing. This whole area needs to be addressed because more and more people are using crack and/or Heroin in a kinda recreational way, they are only smoking Heroin maybe and are developing dependence...

The system is "geared" toward heavy Heroin users who inject or people who are sent to clinics to avoid jail etc as opposed to choosing to sort themselves out. I moved to Cornwall to get away from it all and now take only 4mg a day i havnt used for two years but think i'll be on subutex for many more years.....
Bro' scrape them fuckers with a razor blade and when down to 1mg switch to Temgesic' they come in .4s and .8s so you can use them to tail off without clucking.
You don't need to jump 2mg or 1mg of Subbies'

Ez now'

[Agent Subby]

Is this the very same CliffChuff I got in touch with on another site?

e_babes

PS - very true what he's saying and what I know and experienced from Drug workers and Subutex itself I cant agree more.

Cliffchuff, as a question from my part, I was on 30mls of methodone and switched to Subutex. I was asked to stop using methodone for 36 hours prior to taking my first dose. You can imagine what "surprise" I got from a 8ml dose! Lets just say I was red raw from sitting in a scoulding hot bath for about an hour trying to warm up with constant gut rot and shivers and the shits to say the least.

I ended up using and using and using until I stopped being ill (which was only 2 hits on a ten pound joey and never went back (second time I tried Subutex this is). Some feedback for you - subutex at such a high doseage. Something for you to take to work mIn my opinion I think that no one with a low pain tollerance like myself should switch to Methodone from y friend. I dont know if your practice would allow such a switch at high doseage, but mine did. Totally regretful and made my situation worse. Also the "clarity" in my head and being use to the "dull" feeling from methodone was not great. I so wanted to be prescribed Valium but aparently this is dangerous for your heart on Subutex.

Being a depressive, someone who likes depressants to those who need further clarity, I enjoy my methodone, I enjoyed (past tense) my heroin and valium, my klonopins and other wonderful benzos.

Some treatment works for some, and not for others. It must be a tough choice to assist someone with - how you do it is beyond me. Being a potential patient of yours im sure I would have pissed someone off to the max. Your braver than most in your choice of work.

Elliot
There's something very very simple to decide whether it's going to be Methadone or buprenorhine? Be honest with yourself and if you're still going to be dabbling with gear then go the M'done route but if you're dedicated with a thought out structural plan to stay off gear, then go the bupe route. C'mon let's not over-use certain words.Other words for bravery are 'fearlessness' and ''heroism'. We've recently had 2 minutes silence for bravery. Mr. Elliott.

[Agent Subby]

I suggest reducing more down to 20 - 25 and when you make the switch use gear for about 10 days and then start using Subutex. Please dont make the same mistake as I did and use Subutex after 3 days of not using methodone (like my drug worker said - cunt).

Lets just say that I had to sit in a scoulding hot bath with a bowl to vomit in and some other unpleasanturies.

I believe that drug workers are under this myth that Subutex is a great wonder drug to stop people using on top, unlike methodone. I even managed to overide Naltrexone. I of course admit my stupidity but it can be done!

The gap between methodone and switching to subutex should be as long as a week in my opinion. Meths stays in your body for much longer and when that subutext kicks in you wish you never had taken it. Leave Subutext well alone if you are on meths and try longer than 3 days more like 7 days of no meth, switch to gear and then use Subutex. This is my only thought on helping the switch over to be as comfortable as possible.

Peace

Elliot

You're getting into potential problems by doing this (using gear before you switch to bupe) because you'll sudenly find that you're blocking out both gear and M'done. Very very nasty. If you insist on this procedure use a little bit of gear at the same time when switching over from M'done, but only for 2 days max. And most importantly try getting down to 10/15 mls of M'done and thn don't use M'done for 48 hours. For christ sake i used to take 'done every 2 days anyway so it's not that difficult. Just get out and do some exercise if possible because all you're thinking reading negative stories like this is how difficult it's going to be. the first 2 nights you wont sleep but so what? The problem with opiate addicts like ourselves is that we're a right soft bunch who've never experienced pain!

[Agent Subby]

I'm a drug worker and work with people prescribed subutex. and have had training in its use.

it is a partial agonist, if their are opiates in your system it will kick them off, sounds like your friends are already clucking mildly (the herion has stopped working) as heroin only stays active for a short time (up to 12 hours) herion taken at night will be out of the system by morning.
when titrating people we ask them not to use heroin for 12 hours prior.

if they try the same pattern ofuse with a dose of methadone (higher doses taking longer to loose effectiveness) they will get a fucking nasty surprise.

all this is of course dose dependant. with 16 ml of subutex giving about 90-95% blockage of other opoids and 8ml giving 50-65% lower doses have lower blocking effects this is why when it is first prescribed you start on 2 ml and work up to the required dose over a few days.

as a partial agonist subutex will stop other opiods working and make anyonetaking them sick(physically) again only if higher doses are used lower amounts will allow the corresponding amount of high by not covering all the opoid receptors in the brain.

methadone is a full agonist but gives no high, subutex gives a partial high, the company reps say 50% but they are selling the suff innit because of this it should also be 50% easier to come off or withdraw from...
I don't mean to be flippant but where did you actually aquire your training? Methadone has a ceiling effect whereby bupe doesn't so trust me when I was on 120mg's of M'done about 10 years ago I was on a serious gouch,

[Agent Subby]

Serious insomnia if you keep taking them'

Bowl problems from constipation'
Subutex, buprenorphine or whatever you want to call it is probably the most sought after drug in prison. When you haven't got an opiate habit and either inject or snort bupe it is very very similar to a pethidine hit. That is why it is sought after and expensive in prison. In other countries where heroin is nigh on impossible to get hold of, bupe can cost up to 170 US$ for an eight gram tab. They even cost £40 for an 8 ml sub in a British jail!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/drugs/Story/0,,2170415,00.html

[Agent Subby]

Bro' scrape them fuckers with a razor blade and when down to 1mg switch to Temgesic' they come in .4s and .8s so you can use them to tail off without clucking.
You don't need to jump 2mg or 1mg of Subbies'

Ez now'

Sorry to be a pedant but .2mg's actually and use a pill cutter to chop it in half and you've cracked it.

[Motamba]

Lots of links for discreet online purchase of Subbies and Temis'

http://www.ifastshop.com/kv/search.php?q=Buprenorphine

I hear Canada is your best bet and get it sent snail mail'

Damn freakin expencive though'

Fuckin pharmacutical companies want all the money and don't really give a damn about folks that eat their shit'

Ez now'

[Motamba]

Hey cliffchuff.

you said'

methadone is a full agonist but gives no high, subutex gives a partial high, the company reps say 50% but they are selling the suff innit because of this it should also be 50% easier to come off or withdraw from...
Sorry bro' that information is not so'

Between subbies and Methadone'

The buzz off of Methadone is way stronger than Subbies'

You don't gouch and dream on Subutex, they make you kind of wired'

Where did you get this info from bro' it is not factual'

Shit if you was to take 20ml of Methadone if you was straight it would floor you. Subbies would just pin you up bad stylee and the buzz would be gone after about 6 hours'

Meth will gouch you for at least twelve hours'

Personal experience always shouts louder'

No disrespect meant here bro', but you don't take the Meds, just like the doctors that prescribe them, so of what would you really know, other than of what you have read in a book'

Ez now'

M'

[dek-s]

u can access a private doctor+get it legit...no worry if the filth spin u + cheaper in the long run..in u.k 168mg aprox £90 legally +now..jus hope you've took it b4...can be like acid minus da good bits for first night.considering o.o2mg on street was £3 go private= get clean faster +get 1 trip to chemist.good luck.:yawn:

[dek-s]

[quote=globalloon]source for that please?

most smack addicts i know use both subutex and H in the same day... subutex to help them through a long night, and H as per usual in the daytake subs + say ta ta to any opaite /oid ,i got 70% pure smack in desperation ,injected the lot.....nada, .8gram £35 lighter though....subs r 4 the serious quitter or desparado.:you_crazy i'm on them ,but not the latter.

[dek-s]

[quote=globalloon]source for that please?

most smack addicts i know use both subutex and H in the same day... subutex to help them through a long night, and H as per usual in the daytake subs + say ta ta to any opaite /oid ,i got 70% pure smack in desperation ,injected the lot.....nada, .8gram £35 lighter though....subs r 4 the serious quitter or desparado.:you_crazy i'm on them ,but not the latter.waiting list in dundee shithole is 18 months + if u don't go for piss samples every week ,ill or not....back to the start. i have horror stoies 'bout this shitty city,but later...suicide etc coz of evil city.

[Klam]

I was wondering if you or any one else could point me in the rite direction i was on subutex but i have now been changed over to suboxone and am finding it hard to cope with as i was a long term injector of subutex i was cutting the injecting down and wonting to stop full stop over time but now i have been placed on suboxone i had no choice but to stop the injecting and i am finding it very hard to deal with if i could get a private script of subutex i fill that i could reduce my self to nothing as i was on two 8mls and one 2mls of subutex a day at the start but ended going down to 6mls a day</p>

[Klam]

a word of warning as an agonist subutex willkick off any opiates present from your neuro-receptors precipatingimmediate withdrawel a fucking killer cluck, make sure you are clucking before you take it to ensure you only get the positive effects, its a bout 50% of a heroin high and leaves you mentall/emotionally clear which for anyone using meth or gear to smother emotional stuff may not be fun.
Iv been on subutex for years and at the start of me taking subutex i was not to sure if i wonted a break from herion or if i wonted to stop full stop and iv lernt not to take herion on top or even the same day as sub's as this my friend is the worst cluck you will every experiance in order for me not to cluck and to use herion was to go with out my subutex for at least 11 to 24 hours depending on the amount of subutex i had taken but for the last 3 years iv been herion and crack free thanks to subutex and the few real bad clucks iv had of using herion on top of subutex has kept me usign subutex instead of herion

[mikee_b125]

in nottingham uk there is a rapid prescribing team who can get you on a script in 2 days so im pretty sure other places in the uk have similar facilities. Dont bother with your own gp try calling services like double impact/compass or the criminal justice intervention team.I currently collect 8mg of subby every day and it took me 2 days to get the script sorted.

[Raj]

Thanks for the info Mike raaa

[dek-s]

THE WORDS-SUBOXONE +NALTRAXONE THROW ME INTO W/Ds !...I DID MY HOMEWORK ON THE DAMAGE +DEATH RATES DUE TO LIVER DAMAGE WITH NALTRAXONE. I DID THE £3000 DETOX 5,5000 SUCCESFUL DETOXES (TILL THE KILLER DOSE OF SEDATION WEARS OFF!) MY CHALLENGE DOSE WAS DISTRACTING THE (NURSE?)WHILE I DUMPED IT..SO I'VE GOT BOXES OF THE CRAP(USEFUL TO DABBLERS WHO GET WORK MEDICALS OR GETTING THE BASTARDS WHO LET YOU CLUCK IN THE PAST. NOW I'M STABLE ON SUBS,I FIND I'VE GOT LOTS OF ENERGY ETC. ,BUT TEND TO TAKE NO SHIT OFF ANYONE. MY ONLY COMPLAINTS IS ADMINISTRATION.. TO GET THE DOSE RIGHT YOU SHOULD USE IT (IM),(IV) IS GOING BACK TO NEEDLITIS (GUILTY..ISH MYSELF) BUT CUT FROM 16MG TO 8MG IN 3 WEEKS. STARTING TO REDISCOVER MY YOUTH AFTER 27 YRS OF USING. TIPS FOR PRIVATE SCIPTS:SHOP AROUND COZ CHEMISTS CAN CHARGE WHAT THEY LIKE. IF YOU KNOW A GOOD ONE ASK IF THEY COULD WAIVER THE ADMIN FEE +TELL THEM YOU KNOW IT SHOULD BE NHS +50%. I'M BEING CHARGED APROX.£3 PER 8MG,BUT QUOTED £16 EACH IN THE FIRST I TRIED. MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU!:yawn:

[SD]

See this?

If you have an interest in subutex, this is crazy!

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/society/health/drug+addiction+rife+in+prisons/1165647

[djprocess]

WTF?!

...and which although not advocating smuggling, advises prisoners: 'To avoid injury use strong, smooth packaging and put plenty of lubricant (eg.Vaseline) on your bum and on the object before insertion. '

The prison service have not put their name to this version - but they're aware, say Lifeline, that it will be circulated.

[mikee_b125]

THE WORDS-SUBOXONE +NALTRAXONE THROW ME INTO W/Ds !...I DID MY HOMEWORK ON THE DAMAGE +DEATH RATES DUE TO LIVER DAMAGE WITH NALTRAXONE. I DID THE £3000 DETOX 5,5000 SUCCESFUL DETOXES (TILL THE KILLER DOSE OF SEDATION WEARS OFF!) MY CHALLENGE DOSE WAS DISTRACTING THE (NURSE?)WHILE I DUMPED IT..SO I'VE GOT BOXES OF THE CRAP(USEFUL TO DABBLERS WHO GET WORK MEDICALS OR GETTING THE BASTARDS WHO LET YOU CLUCK IN THE PAST. NOW I'M STABLE ON SUBS,I FIND I'VE GOT LOTS OF ENERGY ETC. ,BUT TEND TO TAKE NO SHIT OFF ANYONE. MY ONLY COMPLAINTS IS ADMINISTRATION.. TO GET THE DOSE RIGHT YOU SHOULD USE IT (IM),(IV) IS GOING BACK TO NEEDLITIS (GUILTY..ISH MYSELF) BUT CUT FROM 16MG TO 8MG IN 3 WEEKS. STARTING TO REDISCOVER MY YOUTH AFTER 27 YRS OF USING. TIPS FOR PRIVATE SCIPTS:SHOP AROUND COZ CHEMISTS CAN CHARGE WHAT THEY LIKE. IF YOU KNOW A GOOD ONE ASK IF THEY COULD WAIVER THE ADMIN FEE +TELL THEM YOU KNOW IT SHOULD BE NHS +50%. I'M BEING CHARGED APROX.£3 PER 8MG,BUT QUOTED £16 EACH IN THE FIRST I TRIED. MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU!:yawn:Where can you buy subutex from the chemist? as far as i was aware it is a controlled drug in the u.k which can only be prescribed by doctors with a licence from the home office.

[wingman]

yes you can get them here in israel very easy but am not so sure about them i have tried sevrel times.and it did not work.but maybe i was doing some think wrong. they are about 25$ apill. but at the same time i have read so much good things about them.what i want to know how much time does it take for them to work.am so dissaponted theyare the magic pill so everyone says i tried agian 3 days ago it did not work or maybe its me being a coward after 3 hours i broke an called my mr brown now am thinking about methadone i just want my life back everday 200$ on smack an crack. its a lot of cash.i know when you start methadone ther is no way back but for 7 years i have been doing this shit.for any one reading this never start with the brown.you open the gates of hell. anyway good look if you want help with the subs let me know.

[wingman]

i sent you a message yesterday.to keep it short an sweet.i took my sub after 18 hours of my last hit of brown.but saying that i sniffed 1clonex to put me a sleep woke up feeling ok it had been over 18 hours apart from the clonex that was about 6 hours.took 6mg of sub felt ok just a bit run down cold but no pain.so i thought i best take the rest of the sub. hour later i was in full wd.leg cramps pain. i was in a mess then i had to call mr brown to sort me out.how long does it take before you feel good.i mean if i wait say 20 hours to make sure ther is no gear in me how much sub should i take an will i have any wd. i cant stand any pain.am now thinking the methadone is the best for me. any advice will be great.

:crazy:

[DaftFader]

WTF?!

...and which although not advocating smuggling, advises prisoners: 'To avoid injury use strong, smooth packaging and put plenty of lubricant (eg.Vaseline) on your bum and on the object before insertion. '

don't say that .. you will have jonny on this thread asking if any one has tryed this method of smuggling out ..lol

[Raj]

i sent you a message yesterday.to keep it short an sweet.i took my sub after 18 hours of my last hit of brown.but saying that i sniffed 1clonex to put me a sleep woke up feeling ok it had been over 18 hours apart from the clonex that was about 6 hours.took 6mg of sub felt ok just a bit run down cold but no pain.so i thought i best take the rest of the sub. hour later i was in full wd.leg cramps pain. i was in a mess then i had to call
mr brown to sort me out.how long does it take before you feel good.i mean if i wait say 20 hours to make sure ther is no gear in me how much
sub should i take an will i have any wd.i cant stand any pain.am now thinking the methadone is the best for me.any advice will be great.:crazy:
Leave as long as you can between heroin and subutex for the safest use - the interactions between the two are nasty and can send you into heavy withdrawls.

The clonex will probably help smooth the transition for you and it may be an idea to have something handy for diarrhea as thats not very pleasant either.

The cramps in the legs I am not 100% sure but orange juice/vitamin C may help a bit with that.

Could you answer for me - what is the attraction of opiates for you? Please be as detailed as possible :wink: Also how much opiates are you using before trying to change to subutex?

NB You should get proper medical advice from a Doctor about your drug use. I am not a primary care medical adviser and my advice is not meant as a substitute for a Doctors advice.

[e_babes]

Let me just point out before we have a flood of enquiries that those of you who do wish to purchase Subutex perhaps you could take the following advice:

Google in something like Online Pharmacy Reviews or something to that value - you will find that there are similar boards to this one with the information of where to buy all sorts of prescription drugs and non prescription drugs all with full reviews and ordering experinces and drug lists and most important of all web sites for you to look at.

I've only found Subutex in 0.2mg however, there are some cheap sources - eg $60UD for 30 tabs.

Good luck and happy hunting.

[wingman]

Leave as long as you can between heroin and subutex for the safest use - the interactions between the two are nasty and can send you into heavy withdrawls.

The clonex will probably help smooth the transition for you and it may be an idea to have something handy for diarrhea as thats not very pleasant either.

The cramps in the legs I am not 100% sure but orange juice/vitamin C may help a bit with that.

Could you answer for me - what is the attraction of opiates for you? Please be as detailed as possible :wink: Also how much opiates are you using before trying to change to subutex?

NB You should get proper medical advice from a Doctor about your drug use. I am not a primary care medical adviser and my advice is not meant as a substitute for a Doctors advice.
am using about 3bags of brown a day a bit more at weekends sniffing it as
for the pills vary rare i onley took last time.to make it a bit more easy. but i
think the clonex was the problem. because it was a good 18 hours since the
last line but the clonex it was 6 hours before i took half the sub i was ok
just a bit of cold no pain so i took the rest of the sub an that was it 1 hour
later full wd cramps felt shit. so i called mr brown an mr crack..i never seem
to get it right.i have been told as long as you have no opiates in the system
with in 1 hour of takeing the sub you will feel great full of energy and no wd
is this true? how long does it take before you feel good.as you know am
hopeing to get on methadone very soon but if not i will have to try the subs
again let me know what you think. thanks.

[e_babes]

Hi Wingman,

I was using about 0.5 of a gram minimum a day and injecting at the end of my usage.

Leave it as long as you can between doing gear and taking Subutex. I suggest when you are propper ill. The first dose will be hard and I felt better on day two. You will be full of energy and this was what I disliked about Subutex because it felt like doing speed. Day 3 you will feel marvelous, as long as you havent used.

If you do it right, within the hour you will feel better. Psycologically, you will feel better as soon as you put the tab under your tongue. If you have a lot of gear in your system, well, give it 30 minutes and you will be PROPPER IN THE SHIT as I found out.

I am very biased in my opinion between Subutex and Methadone. But as Agent Subbie says, you need to be honest with yourself and ask do you really want to give up or do you just want to maintain and be well? [paraphrased] If you want to give up you will do anything to do it, like I did in Detox.

Good luck and best wishes.

Elliot

[MrAHC]

crush em n snort em :wink:

[ace021]

:bounce_fl:bounce_g::weee:

[e_babes]

This is a really stupid asumption but you are taking the pills right aint you?

They are SUBLINGUAL. Under your tongue and let the body do the rest. Snorting them will only get you wrecked if you dont have a habit. In Bullingdon HMP its a massive thing down here and people always try and bully you for your script -

Any luck so far?

[dek-s]

In the news today a man got a mandatory 4 years jail for having 0.003g of cannabis on the sole of his shoe at customs in United Arab Emirates! Another had 3 poppy seeds on his clothing from a roll he ate at heathrow airport and received 4 years in prison too. Apparently codeine in any form is also a mandatory 4 years! I wonder what you get for a kilo of Smack? They won't be bragging about their crime... shit on my shoe and murdering a salad roll! I think we should ban sandals and beards at Heathrow, but fuck the tame 4 years and give them life without parole. Since I last spoke about private "subutex" scripts, I have been told that "IF" you manage to get on NHS subby program it is a 14 day detox and they visit your house every day to watch you taking it (that's in this backward shit hole... Dundee). As I said before finding a private doctor is the ONLY way to do it here. When I stayed in London I could get on up to 100ml of Methadone the same day and that was free, but not NHS (obviously). The waiting list in Dundee is aproximately 18 months. Even if you are on 5 mls you have to be supervised daily in the chemist (you're fucked if your employer walks in) unless he's on it too! Snyone looking for Benzos or any pharm meds try: offshore pharmacies do mail order. It's legal there. My mate gets 10mg valium (Roche) for aprox 15p each but e- mail them first!

ps: Buy the min. 1st time. :laugh_at:3 poppy seeds!

[Dr Bunsen]

:bounce_g:

[e_babes]

[quote=globalloon]source for that please?

most smack addicts i know use both subutex and H in the same day... subutex to help them through a long night, and H as per usual in the daytake subs + say ta ta to any opaite /oid ,i got 70% pure smack in desperation ,injected the lot.....nada, .8gram £35 lighter though....subs r 4 the serious quitter or desparado.:you_crazy i'm on them ,but not the latter.

I can vouch for that. I myself do that and a lot of others here in the Thames Valley area either do or use to do the same.

Subutex at night and do the gear in the day. I was on 16mg subutex and still able to use on top.

I do think that the choices are clear - do you really want to get clean in which case Subutex is ideal or do you just want to be stable and methadone seems ideal - in my opinion.

I do agree that there is no support for addicts who are working, who are not of the usual croud of addicts. How are we supposed to make time for trips to some specialist, doctors, chemist daily and work and have a familly in between?

It does make me mad that these so called specialist groups never cater for us - it does seem that once they have you by the balls - THEY LOVE IT. They don't seem to care about wether you work or not and making ends meet.

I am refering to you NEUTRAL ZONE OF READING.............YES YOU!!!!

[ace021]

Hi i have a guy in france that sell Subutex. His email is mmd_bbk@hotmail.com
email him and tell him that ace send you and he will help you.

Have a nice day// Ace