UK : East : West Ham footballer Calum Davenport and his mum stabbed

[General Lighting]

I'm not a great footy fan and I think the players are overpaid but I did feel sorry for him - seems like he's a decent enough lad what keeps himself out of trouble and still lives with his mum rather than getting involved in brawls and beating up women like other players, and yet him and his mum gets really violently done over :hopeless:

sounds like something personal though as it doesn't seem anything was robbed (normally footballers just get their houses burgled) and the knifemen deliberately wanted to end his career..

Two men arrested over the stabbing of West Ham footballer Calum Davenport and his mother at their home near Bedford are still being held in custody.
Mr Davenport, 26, had emergency surgery on both legs following the attack early on Saturday. He remained in a serious but stable condition on Sunday morning.
A 25-year-old was arrested in Derby on suspicion of attempted murder and was being escorted to Bedford, police said.
A second man, aged 19, was arrested early on Saturday in Bedford.


BBC NEWS | UK | England | Police probe footballer stabbing (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8216650.stm)

[p0ly]

shiiiiiit!! my dad and bro support WH

[Holeydel]

Poor bugger. As long as his nerves were'nt severed in any way the lad should make a full recovery.

[DJCliffy]

Have heard he might have to have a leg amputated. Fucked up shit! :(

[MisterDuck]

nasty stuff.

be interesting to know the motivation.

[General Lighting]

most likely to be a domestic, the defendant is his sisters boyfriend..

[DJCliffy]

Too many pussies in this country. Too eager to pick up a weapon.

There's a simple answer to this. You pick up a weapon and stab someone then you are locked up for 30 years.

You kill then you hang, simple as that.

Might not work as a deterrent but at least there's no chance of that person reoffending again.

I might sound harsh but have you seen the state of this country lately?

Person round here was stabbed the other day, purely for the change in their pocket, fucking mad shit.

[MisterDuck]

Too many pussies in this country. Too eager to pick up a weapon.

There's a simple answer to this. You pick up a weapon and stab someone then you are locked up for 30 years.

You kill then you hang, simple as that.

Might not work as a deterrent but at least there's no chance of that person reoffending again.

I might sound harsh but have you seen the state of this country lately?

Person round here was stabbed the other day, purely for the change in their pocket, fucking mad shit.

sorry mate i really disagree with capital punishment.


Human rights argument

* Capital punishment goes against our most basic human right - the right to life. Furthermore, it is hypocritical and essentially state-sponsored murder - it is lowering yourself to the level of the murderer themselves and in an indirect way somewhat condoning it as a legitimate act.

* Lethal injection and electrocution are not always smooth and painless. They can cause painful deaths and are actually a form of torture.

* Keeping prisoners on death row for many years (16 years in Tracy's case) is itself cruel and a form of torture.

Deterrence argument

* No one has ever been able to demonstrate statistically that killing murderers deters others.

* When countries (eg Canada) get rid of the death penalty there is no instant increase in crime.

Execution of the innocent argument

* Legal systems always make some mistakes. Executing the wrong person makes people think the law is unfair.

* 95 people have been released from death row in the USA since 1973. They were found to have been wrongly convicted.

nabbed that from bbc. i'm sure i could elaborate with some massive debate but i like copying and pasting, and my head hurts cos i'm really hungover.

[General Lighting]

they have those same laws in Malaysia (long jail sentences and death penalties) and there is just as much if not more violent crime; the only time my mum had her handbag robbed has been in Malaysia.

the death penalty in many nations has been expanded from "justifiable" use (against rapists/murderers etc) to drug dealers and even users and political dissidents. strong penalties against crime and capital punishment are a also cornerstone of Sharia law..

I expect even in these dysfunctional times the attacker will get a fairly long stretch, its not just one chav stabbing another but he has potentially destroyed the skills of a human that big companies have paid £3 million pounds for..

What is needed is better domestic violence awareness and enforcement and forced separation of violent partners using tracking and surveillance equipment if necessary..

[DJCliffy]

sorry mate i really disagree with capital punishment.
[/I]

I agree with it in that it's only used for extreme cases. Maybe if it's a really bad case then the judge has the option of capital punishment.

Maybe this would be a bit better thinking about it. (I'm in angry mode atm, need nicotine)

Lock em up (murderers etc) for a minimum of 80 years.

No chance of early release or having a reduced sentence.

You murder an innocent then you have to serve the whole sentence. Maybe even give em a rope just in case they want to take the easy way out.

I think this is fair.

[MisterDuck]

i think there's two very different types of murder.

rage induced spontaneous murder, such as losing control in a fight or something.

and pre-meditated planned out murder, which most people see as worse.

in my opinion in a lot of cases, if someone plans out murders, then they probably have some major psychological issues. the question of responsibility often boils down to whether the murderer has recognised commonly accepted morals and chosen to break them (immoral) or has no comprehension of morals and does not even recognise them (amoral).

another thing people seem to overlook in their rage against the perpetrator, is that we are all capable of killing someone. especially through rage. i believe that everyone could potentially become a killer if something triggered it. this isn't to say everyone will be as that's ridiculous - but potentially. this doesn't diminish responsibility but certainly helps with understanding.

[DaftFader]

i belive in eye for an eye ... if some one gets stabbed in the leg .. they should get stabbed in the leg as punishment .. but the only reason this aint gonna work is cos there are sometimes people that are innocent and get done for something they didn't do ... and for theese people it wouldn't be fair

[Holeydel]

Prevention rather than cure for me. I think the current culture of knife crime is preventible from a decent classroom enviroment in the youths up bringing.

God forbid if I ever have a child, when he gets to an impressionable age (say 13) I'll be sending the little bastard to a really poor country to build wells and shit for a summer. Hopefully this will help him understand how good he's got it in the UK.

[MisterDuck]

i belive in eye for an eye ... if some one gets stabbed in the leg .. they should get stabbed in the leg as punishment .. but the only reason this aint gonna work is cos there are sometimes people that are innocent and get done for something they didn't do ... and for theese people it wouldn't be fair

and how does this make you any better than the original perpetrator?

an eye for an eye would make the whole world blind.

you can't go round dishing out capital and corporal punishment and keep your moral highground.

[Tank Girl]

You murder an innocent
but then who chooses who is innocent, and is revenge always justified etc etc etc


its a very tough and can be very emotive argument / discussion to have

I dont agree with captial punishment, and I'm sure we've had a huge long thread on here about it before, and am too tired to go in to all the ins and outs of my feelings - so I'll try and find the thread

but everyone is intitled to their own opinion, and opinions can change -

[Tank Girl]

http://www.partyvibe.com/forums/politics-media-current-events/29809-death-penalty.html

[DJCliffy]

and how does this make you any better than the original perpetrator?

an eye for an eye would make the whole world blind.

you can't go round dishing out capital and corporal punishment and keep your moral highground.

Yeah but this liberal and soft sentencing doesn't work. Somethings gotta change and change soon.

[General Lighting]

Yeah but this liberal and soft sentencing doesn't work. Somethings gotta change and change soon.

I follow crime news from initial reports all the way through to sentencing and since Tony Blair came to power there has been a trend to increase sentences for pre-meditated murder and other violent crimes, particularly when the victims are less physically strong than the attackers. There is a problem whereby it seems the judiciary assume that young men are "expected to fight" and thus sentences are a bit low in this case (especially if the victim got a few punches in on the attacker) but with more vulnerable victims its not uncommon to see 20-35 year sentences these days. there is also a whole life tarriff which was used for the Ipswich murder cases.

Most people no longer believe in religions with afterlife (which was really what made the death penalty a deterrent and also made other people think the perpetrator would be punished in the afterlife) - and when we had the death penalty in this nation there was more and worse domestic violence and gang violence (particularly in the Victorian era) as upping the stakes often makes people feel life is cheap..

reintroducing the death penalty or corporal punishment into any nation will also pave the way for the introduction of Sharia law and other religious legislation, given the political and economic power religious groups still have across the world.

and greater penalties wouldn't have prevented this incident anyway, its more a case of families being more willing to involve the Police or other authorities at an earlier stage when domestic violence starts to occur (it looks like the weapon used may have come from the family home used by someone familiar with the home..)

[MisterDuck]

Yeah but this liberal and soft sentencing doesn't work. Somethings gotta change and change soon.

it hasn't eliminated all crime no, but the more focus on prevention an rehabilitation (the "liberal" method according to most people) has made crime drop over the past decades.

the way to eliminate crime is to pour money into focusing on the reasons why people commit crimes - the social reasons behind it. continue pouring money into education, into youth work, social work, rehabilitation schemes, outreach programmes.

there has never been any solid evidence produced to be that more "tough" sentencing will reduce crime in the slightest. there are countries with death penalties for relatively minor offences yet people still commit them. the centre-right in this country has an obsession with the phrase "tough on crime" as it is a vote winner, but it is actually one of the most pointless and counter-productive practices out there.

[DaftFader]

and how does this make you any better than the original perpetrator?

an eye for an eye would make the whole world blind.

you can't go round dishing out capital and corporal punishment and keep your moral highground.
you are right .. that's just my jaded side talking ... deep down i know the problem needs to be solved at the roots otherwise it's just sweeping it under the carpet and pertty much carrying on what's going on now but in a diferant manner ... utopian sociaty dream but i'll not see it in my life ... jsut hope people wise up sharpish!