JSA/Hardship fund and how to live on benefits indefinately?

[NoXS]

Please those who have a (negative) moral emotional reaction to the subject matter don't bother replying. I don't want to get into my ethics here.

I have been living happily on government benefits for almost a year now claiming JSA and housing benefit.

I have to have another interview soon which I believe is my third 'restart' interview. I have had a suspicion for a while in the back of my mind that one day they will want me to go into 'compulsory' schemes to begin encouraging me more sternly back to work. Others say this either never comes or the schemes are a breeze anyhow. I still haven't received or found any definitive information regarding this. What are other's experience on this who have been on JSA for a year or more? Is there any increasing pressure to get you back to work or can I continue this cycle indefinitely without them escalating (at least significantly) in their pressure for me finding a job?

I can almost live on housing benefit alone as I live very frugally, but it's mainly that I have to claim JSA to keep being entitled to HB as they need to see the viable source of my low income.

I have also been reading up on the hardship provision and have heard several homeless looking fellows (not judging just saying) asking for it in the past in my local Job Seekers office. I have only read the same rhetoric online about who is entitled to this- those unwilling or unable to work for whatever reason, but no literature on how it is paid. As I can (almost) live of HB alone then claiming hardship fund may be an alternative to JSA should my circumstances change. My main query is how is it paid and do I have to go in and sign up periodically as with the JSA or is it just transfered straight into my account? Presumably I won't have to do the actively seeking work farce with hardship provision as that is not one of the criteria for hardship fund. So anyone who has info on this also please give me a heads up.

Thanks.

[p0ly]

they might send you on the new deal course, but they are supposed to send you on it after 3 months if you say yes, or 6 months compulsory so i am not sure. maybe it is abit different for you or different in your area

[General Lighting]

Please those who have a (negative) moral emotional reaction to the subject matter don't bother replying.

the risk isn't from people what disagree with this replying, its if people discuss their "cunning plans" only to find someone lurking here is emailing the lot to DWP investigation unit, and then all the loopholes get closed..

Any random could do this, they wouldn't have to register and the mods/admins here wouldn't be able to tell if they are using their home internet account and not any obvious "authorities" connection..

Same as discussing unlicensed parties or illegal drugs, "think before you type" applies here..

[PhilKmorgan]

[QUOTE=NoXS;334404]Please those who have a (negative) moral emotional reaction to the subject matter don't bother replying. I don't want to get into my ethics here.


NEVER NEVER EVER EVER apologise to anyone for being on benefits....There are few things more intrinsiclly completely full of shit than societies all purpose rhetoric....:bounce_g:

[Dom_sufc]

[QUOTE=NoXS;334404]Please those who have a (negative) moral emotional reaction to the subject matter don't bother replying. I don't want to get into my ethics here.


NEVER NEVER EVER EVER apologise to anyone for being on benefits....There are few things more intrinsiclly completely full of shit than societies all purpose rhetoric....:bounce_g:

No you shouldn't have to apologise, but I am intrigued as to why a person would prefer to live on benefits than have a job. I am unemployed at the minute, but I would do anything for a half decent job right now. I am being picky and trying to avoid Maccys type jobs again though, so I suppose I should grin and bear it i suppose...

I don't think you can post on a forum though and specifically ask for only one type of reply.

I am not looking down my nose at all, I am genuinely interested.

[ellie]

NEVER NEVER EVER EVER apologise to anyone for being on benefits....There are few things more intrinsiclly completely full of shit than societies all purpose rhetoric....:bounce_g:

Never apologise for being on benefits through no choice of your own... choosing to take benefits when you could get a job is a different matter. I never really get pissed off about this issue... but i have to admit the tone of the first post proper pissed me off.

[DIONYSUS]

Never apologise for being on benefits through no choice of your own... choosing to take benefits when you could get a job is a different matter.

+1.

[raverdude]

i find it easier to go on incapacity benefit. it is hard to prove mental illness. anxiety,stress seem to work well. problems with sleeping, anger problems,depression and coming off drugs done the trick. try it you might get signed off for a year.

[ellie]

i find it easier to go on incapacity benefit. it is hard to prove mental illness. anxiety,stress seem to work well. problems with sleeping, anger problems,depression and coming off drugs done the trick. try it you might get signed off for a year.

:noway:

[PhilKmorgan]

I can see lots of sides to this.

It really guiles me to see the unemployed being attacked by so-called up-standing self-righteous working class arseholes...

We have seen recently in the press all the billionz of quid poured into failing companieeez and then paid out in big fat bonuses when these people have really failed. At the other end of the spectrum, the unemployed munter has to liv on pittance, jump through hoops to even get dis and then take aload of shit ta boot.

[ellie]

I can see lots of sides to this.

It really guiles me to see the unemployed being attacked by so-called up-standing self-righteous working class arseholes...

We have seen recently in the press all the billionz of quid poured into failing companieeez and then paid out in big fat bonuses when these people have really failed. At the other end of the spectrum, the unemployed munter has to liv on pittance, jump through hoops to even get dis and then take aload of shit ta boot.

All i can do is repeat my point...

Never apologise for being on benefits through no choice of your own... choosing to take benefits when you could get a job is a different matter.

If someone can't get a job but is trying then i'm happy for my taxes to help them out. If someone chooses not to work, and not to take benefits, then good for them. But if someone chooses not to work but takes benefits I have no respect for them. You can't have it both ways. Your not 10 getting pocket money any more. Your an adult and should take responsibility for your life. What if everyone chose to have that attitude - we'd be screwed.

[joshd96320]

All i can do is repeat my point...

Never apologise for being on benefits through no choice of your own... choosing to take benefits when you could get a job is a different matter.

If someone can't get a job but is trying then i'm happy for my taxes to help them out. If someone chooses not to work, and not to take benefits, then good for them. But if someone chooses not to work but takes benefits I have no respect for them. You can't have it both ways. Your not 10 getting pocket money any more. Your an adult and should take responsibility for your life. What if everyone chose to have that attitude - we'd be screwed.

raaaraaaraaa

[DIONYSUS]

If someone can't get a job but is trying then i'm happy for my taxes to help them out. If someone chooses not to work, and not to take benefits, then good for them. But if someone chooses not to work but takes benefits I have no respect for them. You can't have it both ways. Your not 10 getting pocket money any more. Your an adult and should take responsibility for your life. What if everyone chose to have that attitude - we'd be screwed.

+10000000000000000000000 :bounce_flash:

[PhilKmorgan]

All i can do is repeat my point...

Never apologise for being on benefits through no choice of your own... choosing to take benefits when you could get a job is a different matter.

If someone can't get a job but is trying then i'm happy for my taxes to help them out. If someone chooses not to work, and not to take benefits, then good for them. But if someone chooses not to work but takes benefits I have no respect for them. You can't have it both ways. Your not 10 getting pocket money any more. Your an adult and should take responsibility for your life. What if everyone chose to have that attitude - we'd be screwed.

What exactly do you think gives you any right to pass judgement on any other human being based on their lifestyle choices ?

Your point about taxes is at best a weak one, mis-informed and at worst completely bigoted. We all pay taxes (e.g. cigarettes, alchohol, VAT). Do you even have any figures what amount of your (income) taxes goes on benefits as opposed to other things (I will put money on it that you cannot quote even one single credible statistic here). So what gives you the right to judge based on ignorance?

[photographthesun]

what gives you the right to tell her shes not entitled to her opinion?

[DIONYSUS]

why would people want to live solely off benefits? ive done it and it was shit.

[ellie]

What exactly do you think gives you any right to pass judgement on any other human being based on their lifestyle choices ?

Your point about taxes is at best a weak one, mis-informed and at worst completely bigoted. We all pay taxes (e.g. cigarettes, alchohol, VAT). Do you even have any figures what amount of your (income) taxes goes on benefits as opposed to other things (I will put money on it that you cannot quote even one single credible statistic here). So what gives you the right to judge based on ignorance?

Your point is weaker. As a member of society you agree to pay taxes. I agree to give money to the NHS to heal people whatever their income, and I agree to give money to the unemployed when they are struggling to find work.

Job seekers allowance is job seekers allowance, not can't be arsed to get a job allowance.

[PhilKmorgan]

Your point is weaker. As a member of society you agree to pay taxes. I agree to give money to the NHS to heal people whatever their income, and I agree to give money to the unemployed when they are struggling to find work.

Job seekers allowance is job seekers allowance, not can't be arsed to get a job allowance.

This is an example of 'societies all purpose rhetoric'. As I previously said, there are few things more completely full of shit (I am educated to PhD).

[joshd96320]

educated to phd in titheadedness?

[photographthesun]

(I am educated to PhD).

You can still buy PhD's online? :p

[ellie]

This is an example of 'societies all purpose rhetoric'. As I previously said, there are few things more completely full of shit (I am educated to PhD).

so you mean my taxes on education are also wasted? (that is a joke!)

btw...i didnt mention above... i dont care if my fag, booze or work taxes are spent on his jobseekers - it still pisses me off

[DIONYSUS]

why would people want/choose to live solely off benefits? ive done it and it was shit, boring and after a while i felt like my brain was rotting. Saying that though that is exactly how i feel at my current job, :hopeless: but at least it pays slightly better.

[PhilKmorgan]

why would people want/choose to live solely off benefits? ive done it and it was shit, boring and after a while i felt like my brain was rotting. Saying that though that is exactly how i feel at my current job, :hopeless: but at least it pays slightly better.

The question of why is a theoretical one related to the costs and benefits of working.

The benefit of the work is clearly what income one gets from it, but then there is the time cost (what else you could be doing with your time). If you say that you can get about 100 quid pw on benefits and about 200 quid pw on minimum wage, then really thats an extra 100 quid for an extra 40 hours a week plus you have to pay taxes (2.5 per hour).

Maybe there are people out there who do not want be in a dead-end hampster wheel job being screwed for someone elses benefit.

Other than that, look at the hippies in the 60s, maybe the roots of the free party scence...

[photographthesun]

The question of why is a theoretical one related to the costs and benefits of working.

The benefit of the work is clearly what income one gets from it, but then there is the time cost (what else you could be doing with your time). If you say that you can get about 100 quid pw on benefits and about 200 quid pw on minimum wage, then really thats an extra 100 quid for an extra 40 hours a week plus you have to pay taxes (2.5 per hour).

Maybe there are people out there who do not want be in a dead-end hampster wheel job being screwed for someone elses benefit.

Other than that, look at the hippies in the 60s, maybe the roots of the free party scence...

But you dont have to work on minimum wage (people can chose to educate themselves/find a better job) and that is rather a selfish viewpoint is it not? tis certainly a complex argument, interestin though

[General Lighting]

just a thought - in the same way people are wary about giving out details of free parties or how to get illegal or "semi-legal" drugs, how do we know whether the OP is legit or not?

first post, without a word of introduction, asking how to do a controversial if not potentially illegal activity...

a thread like this on a high profile public forum would be a perfect way for an ambitious Civil Servant to gather intelligence on "potential benefit fraud methods associated with the unlicensed rave scene / illegal drugs culture"....

[ellie]

What if everyone chose to have that attitude?

Phil, please answer the above question.

[photographthesun]

just a thought - in the same way people are wary about giving out details of free parties or how to get illegal or "semi-legal" drugs, how do we know whether the OP is legit or not?

first post, without a word of introduction, asking how to do a controversial if not potentially illegal activity...

a thread like this on a high profile public forum would be a perfect way for an ambitious Civil Servant to gather intelligence on "potential benefit fraud methods associated with the unlicensed rave scene / illegal drugs culture"....

Surly there would be better ways to gather information than to spend large ammounts of time asking people on random forums who never give a strait awnser? Then again I do wounder...

When I had some bad paranoia sum time ago I thought it was quite possible that the whole of PV was just a data gathering site for the rozzers...weriod times! (I do not think this now im sain again it must be said lol)

[PhilKmorgan]

But you dont have to work on minimum wage (people can chose to educate themselves/find a better job) and that is rather a selfish viewpoint is it not? tis certainly a complex argument, interestin though

Individual rationality is the bread and butter of economics. One point of view (not really mine) is that it is only through people being individually rational that markets bring about socially optimal results. In other words, personal greed is good and you help society by helping yourself.....

[General Lighting]

Surly there would be better ways to gather information than to spend large ammounts of time asking people on random forums who never give a strait awnser? Then again I do wounder...

we've had people try this before to get info on raves...

even if the OP is legit, as I said earlier all it would take is for one lurker to copy and paste all the posts of any methods discussed and send them up to the DWP ....

there are a fuckload of "cyber vigilantés" around these days. It always pays to be paranoid - not too paranoid - but guarded about what you discuss on line.


When I had some bad paranoia sum time ago I thought it was quite possible that the whole of PV was just a data gathering site for the rozzers...weriod times! (I do not think this now im sain again it must be said lol)places like Facebook are far better for this purpose as the admins there will instantly collaborate with law enforcement (without making a big noise about it like a more "right on" site would) to keep their commercial businesses running smoothly...

Even on friendly sites like this it still makes sense to be careful about what you post. "Free speech" always has a cost.

[photographthesun]

Individual rationality is the bread and butter of economics. One point of view (not really mine) is that it is only through people being individually rational that markets bring about socially optimal results. In other words, personal greed is good and you help society by helping yourself.....

hmmm, I dont think that takes into accunt mass benefit theift though really does it..

[SweetAss]

Doesn't bother me if you have a job or not PhilK but don't expect to be supported by the state when from what I have read you can't be bothered to get off your ass and earn a crust.... As you asked ellie "what give you the right too pass judgement"??? The fact that were working gives us the right, its our bloody money going to you!!!


I've been unemployed for periods of time & don't like it, admit i don't like takin' orders from anyone either but its a means to an end!!!

Peace

[PhilKmorgan]

Who's bloody computer you on get that when we all paid for you to get your PHD did it??.............get off your ass and stop trying to work out how to get a percentage of my money for doing fook all!!!

Peace

What the fook is this??

[ellie]

please answer my question phil :bounce_fl

[PhilKmorgan]

please answer my question phil :bounce_fl

The answer is that if everyone stopped working and sat around getting kaned and going to free parties, this kind of mass free-thinking would have a negative impact on GDP (gross domestic product).

I have to say that I cannot believe how conservative people are around here. Times were different in the 90s when I used to go proper free parties.:love:

[ellie]

The answer is that if everyone stopped working and sat around getting kaned and going to free parties, this kind of mass free-thinking would have a negative impact on GDP (gross domestic product).

I have to say that I cannot believe how conservative people are around here. Times were different in the 90s when I used to go proper free parties.:love:

it would have more of an impact than that. How would you get food, electricity, water etc?

[PhilKmorgan]

it would have more of an impact than that. How would you get food, electricity, water etc?

Do you like wearing edible knickers and doing it doggy style :crazy:

[ellie]

Do you like wearing edible knickers and doing it doggy style :crazy:

i take that as you agreeing i'm right :laugh_at:

[photographthesun]

Its no that much of a fair question as its a totally impossible senario for a verity of reasons..

[SweetAss]

What the fook is this??


Apologies Phil.......stand by most of what i said but that was out of oreder, My Bad!!! Just got off the phone with an irate client, think i passed my agro onto you!!!
Ill take a few deep breaths after a call like that again & look at the thread more objectively....Ta

[PhilKmorgan]

i take that as you agreeing i'm right :laugh_at:

You are not right because I do not believe that you cannot sustain what you are saying.

As I have said, I do not believe in 'societies all purpose rhetoric' because quite often the scientific evidence does not support these 'apparently common sense viewpoints'.

You cannot sustain the kind of general statements that you make simply by making a confident or agressive assertions that something is true. Neither can you sustain them with anecdotal evidence.:bounce_fl

[ellie]

If someone can't get a job but is trying then i'm happy for my taxes to help them out. If someone chooses not to work, and not to take benefits, then good for them. But if someone chooses not to work but takes benefits I have no respect for them. You can't have it both ways. Your not 10 getting pocket money any more. Your an adult and should take responsibility for your life. What if everyone chose to have that attitude - we'd be screwed.

tbh i think i'm arguing when the above said everything i should really need to. I'll leave it at that now.

[PhilKmorgan]

tbh i think i'm arguing when the above said everything i should really need to. I'll leave it at that now.

Sometimes there is no black and white view of what is reality, only 360 shades of grey. This is what I have learned..

[ellie]

Sometimes there is no black and white view of what is reality, only 360 shades of grey. This is what I have learned..

this is true most of the time, when speaking in the general. but i'm talking about the guy who posted the first post. he is claiming jsa without trying to get a job. IMO its wrong. Pretty black and white to me.

[PhilKmorgan]

this is true most of the time, when speaking in the general. but i'm talking about the guy who posted the first post. he is claiming jsa without trying to get a job. IMO its wrong. Nothing black and white about that.

I believe in live and let live

[photographthesun]

this is true most of the time, when speaking in the general. but i'm talking about the guy who posted the first post. he is claiming jsa without trying to get a job. IMO its wrong. Pretty black and white to me.

But that is your view point not a fact, morality can certainly never be black and white...

hmm, this is getting a bit racist :p

[ellie]

I believe in live and let live

and me...where it doesnt impact negatively on other people.

[ellie]

But that is your view point not a fact

thats why i said black and white to me :wink:

[photographthesun]

thats why i said black and white to me :wink:

:cry: I am but a fool

[PhilKmorgan]

and me...where it doesnt impact negatively on other people.

Where is the negative impact?

[PhilKmorgan]

Save the whales:crazy_diz

[ellie]

Where is the negative impact?

i feel my tax payers money can be much better spent than keeping someone who can't be arsed to get a job.

[PhilKmorgan]

i feel my tax payers money can be much better spent than keeping someone who can't be arsed to get a job.

We have been through this before..

[ellie]

thats what tends to happen in arguments :wink:

you said ...quite often the scientific evidence does not support these 'apparently common sense viewpoints' ... can you give me an example?

[SweetAss]

i feel my tax payers money can be much better spent than keeping someone who can't be arsed to get a job.

+1....:crazy:

[PhilKmorgan]

thats what tends to happen in arguments :wink:

you said ...quite often the scientific evidence does not support these 'apparently common sense viewpoints' ... can you give me an example?

What I mean by 'societies all purpose rhetoric' is about sterotyping people (e.g. all unemployed are lazy or stupid or involved in benefit fraud).

[ellie]

What I mean by 'societies all purpose rhetoric' is about sterotyping people (e.g. all unemployed are lazy or stupid or involved in benefit fraud).

but the guy who started this thread basically said he was committing benefit fraud?

The thread is all about staying on job seekers allowance indefinately!

I definately don't think all unemployed people are stupid or lazy - many of my friends have been on it at some point! (and i don't mean that in a 'some of my best friends are unemployed' way!! :laugh_at: )

[DJCliffy]

Save the emu's!!!!

[DJCliffy]

Please those who have a (negative) moral emotional reaction to the subject matter don't bother replying. I don't want to get into my ethics here.

I have been living happily on government benefits for almost a year now claiming JSA and housing benefit.

I have to have another interview soon which I believe is my third 'restart' interview. I have had a suspicion for a while in the back of my mind that one day they will want me to go into 'compulsory' schemes to begin encouraging me more sternly back to work. Others say this either never comes or the schemes are a breeze anyhow. I still haven't received or found any definitive information regarding this. What are other's experience on this who have been on JSA for a year or more? Is there any increasing pressure to get you back to work or can I continue this cycle indefinitely without them escalating (at least significantly) in their pressure for me finding a job?

I can almost live on housing benefit alone as I live very frugally, but it's mainly that I have to claim JSA to keep being entitled to HB as they need to see the viable source of my low income.

I have also been reading up on the hardship provision and have heard several homeless looking fellows (not judging just saying) asking for it in the past in my local Job Seekers office. I have only read the same rhetoric online about who is entitled to this- those unwilling or unable to work for whatever reason, but no literature on how it is paid. As I can (almost) live of HB alone then claiming hardship fund may be an alternative to JSA should my circumstances change. My main query is how is it paid and do I have to go in and sign up periodically as with the JSA or is it just transfered straight into my account? Presumably I won't have to do the actively seeking work farce with hardship provision as that is not one of the criteria for hardship fund. So anyone who has info on this also please give me a heads up.

Thanks.

I can help you here. Join my cult and live on my emu farm. You can have everything you want but it will come at a cost. you must take an emu as a wife. I look forward to hearing from you.

[joshd96320]

hi zelissa

[PhilKmorgan]

but the guy who started this thread basically said he was committing benefit fraud?

The thread is all about staying on job seekers allowance indefinately!

I definately don't think all unemployed people are stupid or lazy - many of my friends have been on it at some point! (and i don't mean that in a 'some of my best friends are unemployed' way!! :laugh_at: )

There is a grey area here about if this guy is doing benefit fraud:wink:

[General Lighting]

Save the emu's!!!!

CITV: Emu (http://www.citv.co.uk/page.asp?partid=237)

[ellie]

There is a grey area here about if this guy is doing benefit fraud:wink:

well if i've read into his message wrong and he is looking for work, then fair enough and i'm happy for him to get JSA (as i've already said)... but i don't think i have read it wrong :wink:

[PhilKmorgan]

well if i've read into his message wrong and he is looking for work, then fair enough and i'm happy for him to get JSA (as i've already said)... but i don't think i have read it wrong :wink:

The question about whether or not you have read this wrong can only ultimately be answered by the person who wrote the post:group_hug

[ellie]

The question about whether or not you have read this wrong can only ultimately be answered by the person who wrote the post:group_hug

so have we been arguing about different things? once it is definate that someone is taking JSA with no intention of getting a job...do you then think they are in the wrong?

[PhilKmorgan]

so have we been arguing about different things? once it is definate that someone is taking JSA with no intention of getting a job...do you then think they are in the wrong?

This is a complex question with not really a clear cut answer.

As I said above, what about failing companies who extract millions of public money and pay it out as fat cat bonuses.

[ellie]

This is a complex question with not really a clear cut answer.

As I said above, what about failing companies who extract millions of public money and pay it out as fat cat bonuses.

why can't they both be wrong?...different degrees of wrong fair enough, but still both wrong.

[PhilKmorgan]

why can't they both be wrong?...different degrees of wrong fair enough, but still both wrong.

I will have to think about this and post later.

[ellie]

I will have to think about this and post later.

your reply better be good then! :wink:

[PhilKmorgan]

why can't they both be wrong?...different degrees of wrong fair enough, but still both wrong.

Which do you think is worse?

[ellie]

Which do you think is worse?

I guess each case would be different. Some JSA claims would be more morally wrong, some unearnt bonuses would be worse. But for this argument i don't think it really matters. my point is that it is wrong to claim JSA without seeking a job.

[p0ly]

When I had some bad paranoia sum time ago I thought it was quite possible that the whole of PV was just a data gathering site for the rozzers...weriod times! (I do not think this now im sain again it must be said lol)

woooo strange thought man!

[PhilKmorgan]

I guess each case would be different. Some JSA claims would be more morally wrong, some unearnt bonuses would be worse. But for this argument i don't think it really matters. my point is that it is wrong to claim JSA without seeking a job.

I have had a hard day and you are exhausting..

[ellie]

I have had a hard day and you are exhausting..

thank you :ty_ty:

[joshd96320]

thank you :ty_ty:

:laugh_at: what an emoticon

[PhilKmorgan]

your reply better be good then! :wink:

As I have said previously, there is no clear cut answer as to what is right or wrong (actually I like the ambiguity of 360 shades of grey). Really it just depends on you personal politics and you will find all sorts on this site. At the end of the day, this is warehouse party site not a god damn facist convention. There are some people who are free spirits or creative and just like to do their own thing (Ian Brown from the stone roses was a doley). Would you also condemn a generation of hippies who opted to get off the grid and sit round the camp fire at festivals with a big fat spliff instead of going to work. I don't care if someone's on the dole or not, it is certainly not a criteria for pidgeonholing someone as worthless. I have met all sorts and I am not the sort to point a long moralistic judgemental finger.

To sum up, based on the totality of your postings, I would say that you are a woman who likes (and in fact needs) to be tied up and spanked. This is not just a passing thought, I have a sixth sense and am normally spot on this kind of thing.