Petition to Stop Mandatory Noise Control on Clubs

BioTech

12-01-2009, 07:24 PM

Please stop them from ruining the way we listen to music in clubs.

I think noise limiters are suitable in some venues. Especially those that are not designed for loud music and are in the middle of residential areas.

However, if this is passed then every club and live music venue up and down the country will eventually be limited to silly levels.

Please Sign Here (http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/NoNoiseControl/) - You will need a valid email address.

It has been brought to attention that the government wish to consider it a legal requirement in the new tax year to introduce laws insisting anyone applying or re-applying for an entertainment license must have a noise control device fitted to the venue. This will be the final NAIL for ALL entertainment in the UK as the level at which these devices CUT you off is dreadfully low and damaging.

PLEASE DO NOT INTRODUCE THIS LAW, WE LOVE LIVE MUSIC!

Petition to: NOT introduce sound control devices as a legal requirement in entertainmment venues!. | Number10.gov.uk (http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/NoNoiseControl/)

DJCliffy

12-01-2009, 07:30 PM

Signed that earlier on FB. Does that mean clubs like ministry and Fabric will have to have these Noise control devices?

Imo it's another stupid fucking stunt by stupid fucking morons who have little or no experience with such issues. i bet half of these idiots have never set foot inside a club. :you_crazy

BioTech

12-01-2009, 07:44 PM

Yep. Any new club that applies for a PEL and any existing club that re-applies will have to have limiters fitted. So eventually they will all have limiters in them.

I haven't seen any official statement with regards to the actual limit, or where the limiter will be placed in the club but there has been rumours floating about that it is between 80db and 90db which is going to be seriously damaging if it's situated anywhere in (or close to) the main room of a club.

DIONYSUS

12-01-2009, 07:45 PM

glad you posted this bio, but im not convinced that these gov petitions or FB prtest groups actually make any difference. Think FB and these petitions are good as they get the word about, about some important issues, but i really dont belive that the groups set up or petitions signed will actually change anything or stop a law going through (def the case with FB).

all in my very own opinon of course.. :wink:

BioTech

12-01-2009, 07:47 PM

Oh and the timelimit for this petition is the 23rd of Jan, so please sign this quickly people.

I don't always believe petitions have much of an effect, but on the smaller laws that they try and squeeze through without people noticing I believe people have a chance of making a statement which could change minds.

DontBeliveTheHype!

12-01-2009, 07:52 PM

thats been signed and sent to all my m8s .. can't belive the cheek of that man .. i understand if it's in a residential area ..but to make it mandator for all live music venues is like saing every person that goes mad need a frontle lobe labotamy :you_crazy

BioTech

12-01-2009, 07:53 PM

Think FB and these petitions are good as they get the word about, about some important issues, but i really dont belive that the groups set up or petitions signed will actually change anything or stop a law going through (def the case with FB).

I recently saw a news item on TV which reported on a facebook petition that managed to stop some law happening... can't remember what it was.

I agree with you that it is often a bit futile, but at the very least I'd rather people got involved with a bit of armchair activism rather than take it sitting down (excuse the pun) and let the government restrict our social fun without even so much as a mumur.

Tek Offensive

12-01-2009, 11:05 PM

well its gotta worth trying. im not too sure about this but isnt 80db pretty damn quiet compared to what alot of systems run at?

im not the kind of person who has my head right in a scoop all night long but surely thats far too quiet.

DIONYSUS

12-01-2009, 11:19 PM

I recently saw a news item on TV which reported on a facebook petition that managed to stop some law happening... can't remember what it was.

I agree with you that it is often a bit futile, but at the very least I'd rather people got involved with a bit of armchair activism rather than take it sitting down (excuse the pun) and let the government restrict our social fun without even so much as a mumur.

yeah good point.

i wanna know what that facebook petition stopped now..

BioTech

12-01-2009, 11:49 PM

well its gotta worth trying. im not too sure about this but isnt 80db pretty damn quiet compared to what alot of systems run at?

Difficult to say, but a heavy system caining it out would be about 135db standing right in front of it. That is quite excessively loud, but enjoyable all the same.

80 - 90db is between busy traffic to underground station

So yeah. Pretty quiet. Decibels are a logarithmic measurement and every 3db increase is 50% louder than before. Equally every 3db taken away is 50% quieter.

I doubt the limiter will be placed right in front of the soundsystem but 85db is pretty quiet. Maybe it will be ok if it's placed outside the club (unlikely) or at the club entrance, but I reckon lairy shouting would set it off if that's the case.

BioTech

12-01-2009, 11:52 PM

...or at the club entrance, but I reckon lairy shouting would set it off if that's the case.

Actually that raises another issue. Clubs/venues will have to make sure people are quiet and don't get excited and possibly go so mental that they might applaud or let out a cheer; because that would probablt trip the limiter.

DJCliffy

12-01-2009, 11:55 PM

yeah good point.

i wanna know what that facebook petition stopped now..

I think it was something about marrying cousins.

DIONYSUS

13-01-2009, 12:00 AM

Actually that raises another issue. Clubs/venues will have to make sure people are quiet and don't get excited and possibly go so mental that they might applaud or let out a cheer; because that would probablt trip the limiter.
i doubt they would actually link it to the system, but maybe it would just be a sound and level recorder, so if it went over they could have reason to refuse the license next time they apply or be able to revoke the current one. If it was a music breach rather than someone just shouting standing next to it if you know what i mean...?

DontBeliveTheHype!

13-01-2009, 09:18 PM

i doubt they would actually link it to the system, but maybe it would just be a sound and level recorder, so if it went over they could have reason to refuse the license next time they apply or be able to revoke the current one. If it was a music breach rather than someone just shouting standing next to it if you know what i mean...?
yeah thats what i imidiatly thought of when i first read this .. it would be wired into the system some how so it knew how loud it was as oposed to actualy hearing how loud it was .. like inbetween the amp and speakers .. not that that would nesisarily work as it would have to understand all the frequencys and know what speakers were running from the apm to be acurate .. but surly it can't just be an electronic ear that picks up noise .. and if it is then it surely can't just cut the sound .. now i have read prosessed thread it's more likely going to be a monitoring device .. you know how the govenment like to go big brother stylee on our asses .. they will probably just use it to gather information and then use that to do some thing nasty to people like fine the club owners ... MORE MONEY for them .. that sounds like the govenment i know and hate!

BioTech

14-01-2009, 12:12 AM

but surly it can't just be an electronic ear that picks up noise .. and if it is then it surely can't just cut the sound

That's exactly what it is. There are plenty of these devices already in operation in some clubs. They cut the power supply provided to the soundsystem, which can be damaging to the equipment, not to mention the clubs business.

DIONYSUS

14-01-2009, 12:17 AM

That's exactly what it is. There are plenty of these devices already in operation in some clubs. They cut the power supply provided to the soundsystem, which can be damaging to the equipment, not to mention the clubs business.
thats a fucking joke then.:you_crazy

Tank Girl

14-01-2009, 01:21 AM

indeed raaa

DJCliffy

14-01-2009, 03:37 PM

I've just written and sent a letter to my local MP telling him about this. Took me bloody ages but made some valid points. Hopefully he'll get back to me before the 23rd! :wink:

BioTech

14-01-2009, 04:08 PM

I've just written and sent a letter to my local MP telling him about this. Took me bloody ages but made some valid points. Hopefully he'll get back to me before the 23rd! :wink:

Nice one Cliffy!

starlaugh

14-01-2009, 04:58 PM

I signed it, also got a few others to sign it.. So far this week I have had this petition sent to me 9 times through FB

DontBeliveTheHype!

14-01-2009, 05:33 PM

I signed it, also got a few others to sign it.. So far this week I have had this petition sent to me 9 times through FB
i sent it to all my friends on msn .. and it's my status on facebook ... gonna keep presuing the point to whome ever i can :wink:

General Lighting

14-01-2009, 06:39 PM

has anyone got links to whatever Parliament debates would have originally sparked this? A plan like this for the entire nation doesn't just happen randomly.

At least one MP would have had to introduce a motion in Parliament and usually this means 5 or 6 (if not more) other MPs (not necessarily all from the same party) have backed him/her up...

its worth digging out as much info on this as whether or not the law gets changed it often is a precursor to increased enforcement of existing laws, and Local Authorities can already demand a venue installs sound limiters as part of a Licensing application..

BioTech

15-01-2009, 12:20 AM

It would seem that this might be a load of bullshit scaremongering. I've been looking for some proof since this issue was raised but couldn't find any apart from the original 2006 noise in the workplace act which mentions restrictions coming in to affect in October 2008 (if I remember rightly) to protect staff in music venues.

Couldn't find anything else and I've since read similar opinions from people on Speakerplans. Seems we've been had.

Well maybe not completely because it is becoming more and more regualr for clubs to have limiters installed so that they can gain or keep their license. So maybe a little complaining isn't all bad.

DIONYSUS

15-01-2009, 12:39 AM

BioTech

15-01-2009, 11:34 AM

With this one I would have thought that it is someone reading in to something and getting the wrong end of the stick.

The thing is, this isn't too far from the truth of what is happeining anyway. The only difference is that limiters would be enforced on all clubs in the long run. I'd imagine that in a few years there will be more and more of them installed rather than just 1 in every 10 venues having them.

If you are a paranoid and cynical person you could also think this may be a government trick to gather the emails (linking them to addresses) of likely noisy bastards that need to be kept an eye on.

DIONYSUS

15-01-2009, 12:54 PM

If you are a paranoid and cynical person you could also think this may be a government trick to gather the emails (linking them to addresses) of likely noisy bastards that need to be kept an eye on.

:crazy::wink:

DJCliffy

15-01-2009, 08:16 PM

Hang on a minute so did i write a very long and angry letter to my MP for nothing? :crazy:

benjam1n

16-01-2009, 02:24 AM

hi! yeah i dont use your site too often but i thought it might be worth dropping a link to my blog which is related to this post and the petition, it contains some valuable information which you might want to take a look at. :-) Chase Your Horizon (http://chase-your-horizon.blogspot.com/)

BioTech

16-01-2009, 05:06 PM

Hang on a minute so did i write a very long and angry letter to my MP for nothing? :crazy:

Erm... maybe! :bigsmile:

Nah, like I say, they are imposing these on clubs anyway but this new "fake" legislation would have made it a blanket enforcement of the rule. So it wasn't a total waste of your time.

Nice one for doing it IMO.

BioTech

16-01-2009, 05:08 PM

DJCliffy

16-01-2009, 05:11 PM

Erm... maybe! :bigsmile:

Nah, like I say, they are imposing these on clubs anyway but this new "fake" legislation would have made it a blanket enforcement of the rule. So it wasn't a total waste of your time.

Nice one for doing it IMO.

No worries man, :wink:

General Lighting

16-01-2009, 05:19 PM

its worth showing the MP's that there is a demand for the night time economy and its not entirely negative, as there are loads of people writing to MPs asking for harsher clampdowns...

bear in mind the whole culture of entertainment venues opening later than midnight is only comparatively new, from the 1990s and things could easily go "back to the old days..."

starlaugh

16-01-2009, 05:22 PM

bear in mind the whole culture of entertainment venues opening later than midnight is only comparatively new, from the 1990s and things could easily go "back to the old days..."

I would just be heading to a free party earlier if this happened, would rather it not though finishing at midnight would just take the piss!

General Lighting

16-01-2009, 05:30 PM

I would just be heading to a free party earlier if this happened, would rather it not though finishing at midnight would just take the piss!

the very reason why there were once so many illegal raves in East Anglia was because licensing authorities knocked back the hours of many legal venues due to a backlash over drugs use, but cops now consider both licensed and unlicensed events to have the same risks and are way better at tracking the obvious links between both cultures..

round here people I know who only do legal events get watched by cops to make sure they arent acting as a meeting point for illegal raves..

Raj

18-01-2009, 09:30 PM

Its lunacy to lockdown the sound levels in clubs like this - it will lead to clubs turning the bass down and turning up the high end to try and make it sound louder and its the high end distorting which is particularly damaging to your hearing. :crazy:

FFS my neighbours mower is louder than 80 db. Will sound limiters on DIY equipment be next? Or on building trade tools? [That should be good - not many pro power tools are less than 90db :you_crazy ] In fact thinking about it the last kettle I had was almost 90db :you_crazy:you_crazy:you_crazy

Baah

Signed

DJCliffy

29-01-2009, 04:01 PM

Got a letter back from my MP about the noise limiters scandal. DEFRA, (Dept for Environment, food and rural affairs) and the HSE (Health and Safety Executive) have confirmed that the Govt has no plans to introduce noise limiter legislation. Apparently venues cannot have noise limiters forced on them under current legislation. My MP told me he'd keep me in the loop should anything change. He's such a legend! raaa