California's Proposition 8

[ellie]

Californian voters have chosen to ban same-sex marriage, months after it was legalised by the state's top court.

Wasnt sure whether to put this in the relationship, politics, or religion thread!

Issue seems quite fitting after all our recent debates on here.

BBC NEWS | World | Americas | US Elections 2008 | California bans same-sex marriage (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/us_elections_2008/7711127.stm)

i'm pretty sure i know what mosts peoples opinions are on this but thought i would highlight the story (i only heard about it yesterday)

...more than $70m spent on advertising by both sides...:you_crazy

live and let live :bounce_fl

[process]

State Attorney General Jerry Brown has said those marriages will remain valid...

...The referendum called for the California constitution to be amended by adding the phrase that: "Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognised in California."
so does that make any sense then? :crazy_dizzy:

[amyberthelet]

:bounce_fl:bounce_g:raaa

[process]

:bounce_fl:bounce_g:raaa
are you trying to get a rise out of people you f****g ignorant bigot.:you_crazy

[Tank Girl]

WTF????

utter cunts :you_crazy

are we going back into the dark ages?




who else's rights will they be trying to limit next?

[process]

WTF????

utter cunts :you_crazy

are we going back into the dark ages?




who else's rights will they be trying to limit next?


fundeMENTAList christian extremists hopefully.

[GiantMidget]

Bit of a backwards step innit? :you_crazy

[Tank Girl]

fundeMENTAList christian extremists hopefully.


unfortunatley that wont happen

they have the power over there and quote the bible to back up their fucking stupid argument


ahhh!!!!! its just so fucking wrong!!!!!!!!

[General Lighting]

if this can happen where (I think) Hollywood is situated then it shows how bitterly divided the USA is.. luckily for them its a big country so people what don't get on with each other have the space. Europeans do not have this luxury.

[amyberthelet]

wow so much for letting diverse viewpoints have their say! And I didn't even 'say' anything! wow!:hopeless:

[GiantMidget]

ahhh!!!!! its just so fucking wrong!!!!!!!!




It is wrong but at least they're over there well away from the rest of us. All this recent talk about religion has made me realise how much i truly hate it! (wasn't an incitement to another argument just my own personal opinion!)

[MisterDuck]

:bounce_fl:bounce_g:raaa

religious nuts aren't known for their tolerance...

[amyberthelet]

haha now im a nut! WEEEE - I'm a nut for Jesus!!!! :weee:

don't care what u call me! I'm just the minority on here....I know I can't explain my viewpoint......

HAPPY to be a JESUS FREAK! raaa

[starlaugh]

I thought we were living in modern times... I can't see what is wrong with gay marriage, consenting adults following the feelings they have. To deny them the chance to marry is just unfair.

[JonnyQuest]

:bounce_fl:bounce_g:raaa

go play in traffic

[JonnyQuest]

HAPPY to be a JESUS FREAK! raaa


your jsut a piss poor excuse for a human

[amyberthelet]

luv u 2...... :crazy_dru

I'm not gonna debate and argue anymore.....I simply stated my opinion - is that only allowed if I agree with everyone else on here????

The world hates me - it hated Jesus first. That is a fact.

I NEVER said I hate gays did I? Does saying they shouldn't marry mean I hate them?

So I am happy its banned, you're not....let's leave it at that... this fighting isn't helping anything.

[coastie]

And I thought California was supposed to be quite a liberal state? A sad state of affairs to be in. Is does annoy me sometimes when they come out with all this stuff about the land of the free. Its pretty backward in some ways. :hopeless:

[Dom_sufc]

Bloody ell...

Amy. It's fine you have your opinion, it's fine that you have your religion, but do you really think it's fine for people in your country to live THEIR lives?

In your country can other people worship their gods freely? Can they have their Mosques/Synagogues ect? Why can't gays marry?

Freedom rights, equalities and being able to live your life. What's wrong with living as long as no one else gets hurt? Where's the hurt here? Personally I think religion Is a load of shit, yet I would never agree with a law that stopped them believing.

Infact, I dont think Im ever going to talk about religion on this board, or ever, again tbh. Instead I'll do something alot more constructive and hammer my head on my house wall.

[amyberthelet]

and I'll do something more constructive and PRAY! (don't worry, not on here)

[Dom_sufc]

and I'll do something more constructive and PRAY! (don't worry, not on here)

No comments on the rest of the post then?

[amyberthelet]

What good would it do? You KNOW my stance, that hasn't changed...I dunno why I even bothered to post those silly smilies TBH.....

If you would like to 'debate' this, it needs to be done some other way....this is just goin round and round. I am an EVANGELIST Conservative Christian......nuff said.

[Dom_sufc]

What good would it do? You KNOW my stance, that hasn't changed...I dunno why I even bothered to post those silly smilies TBH.....

If you would like to 'debate' this, it needs to be done some other way....this is just goin round and round. I am an EVANGELIST Conservative Christian......nuff said.

Debate to me, is picking points from a statement that you disagree with, then giving logical counter points to them. After all the point to debate is to convince the "opposition" of your own point by both learning new Ideas developed through the discussion.

Blindly telling me what It says in the book isn't debate. I understand the fact in that you believe, but you must have a reason to believe it, other than the decision to without making your own thought on everything surrounding your religion?

Im not after an argument. Just an analytical, rational discussion so we can find the error in either of our ways... Surely this Is what you want too?

And imo, no, you shouldn't have put those smilies... Not without expecting this anyway. Just as I would expect It if the scenario were reversed, Gay Marriage had been made legal, I put 3 smilies on a Christian thread.

[process]

What good would it do? You KNOW my stance, that hasn't changed...I dunno why I even bothered to post those silly smilies TBH.....

If you would like to 'debate' this, it needs to be done some other way....this is just goin round and round. I am an EVANGELIST Conservative Christian......nuff said.
get bent and fuck off then cause this is the wrong board for you.:head_bang

BRING BACK GARRY. WE LOVE YOU GARRY. ALL IS FORGIVEN

[Tank Girl]

Blindly telling me what It says in the book isn't debate. I understand the fact in that you believe, but you must have a reason to believe it, other than the decision to without making your own thought on everything surrounding your religion?


you must have your own thought processes involved in your decisions to agree with what the 'book' says or is it really as simple as (stupid) blind faith and going along with it all without having your own individual beliefs

[marcusblanc]

get bent and fuck off then cause this is the wrong board for you.:head_bang

BRING BACK GARRY. WE LOVE YOU GARRY. ALL IS FORGIVEN

:laugh_at: :laugh_at:

[marcusblanc]

yer man is right Amy... :yawn:

this is the wrong board for u, go and evangelise somewhere else, i'm sick of the preachin! :hopeless:

believe what u wanna believe, but please leave us alone... :ar15:

we don't need ur faith cos we are grown ups :head_bang

well, most of us are anyway, ahem! raaa

[JonnyQuest]

get bent and fuck off then cause this is the wrong board for you.:head_bang

BRING BACK GARRY. WE LOVE YOU GARRY. ALL IS FORGIVEN


preach brother, no nazi's on pv please

[process]

preach brother, no nazi's on pv please
down with the nazi's

that means you Geldof!

http://nazret.com/blog/media/blogs/new/postcard_geldof_0828.jpg

[Tank Girl]

down with the nazi's

that means you Geldof!

http://nazret.com/blog/media/blogs/new/postcard_geldof_0828.jpg
I think you should shoot his kids first :wink:


never liked paula yates either

[process]

peaches seems quite sound tbf...
































http://www.topnews.in/light/files/Peaches-Geldof_0.jpg

:wink:

[GiantMidget]

down with the nazi's

that means you Geldof!

http://nazret.com/blog/media/blogs/new/postcard_geldof_0828.jpg

He's such a cunt.

[Tank Girl]

peaches seems quite sound tbf...
































http://www.topnews.in/light/files/Peaches-Geldof_0.jpg

:wink:
dr bunsen god give me strength :wink:

[GiantMidget]

peaches seems quite sound tbf...
































http://www.topnews.in/light/files/Peaches-Geldof_0.jpg

:wink:

I would.

[amyberthelet]

Hey - I SAID I wouldn't 'preach' on here didn't I? Just stating that I am an Evangelist Christian gets me THAT much hate? Wow. :hopeless:

And anything I might say to defend my postition on here would simply cause more of this hate, namecalling and ugliness......it makes sense to me, not to you. It is obvious that you don't want any part of God - got that.

IM SORRY I POSTED THE SMILIES OK?????? SHEEEESH!

[MisterDuck]

amy, i won't be offensive or insulting, but probably argumentative... but can we debate on this issue:

why exactly have you a problem with gay marriage?

[ellie]

amy, i won't be offensive or insulting, but probably argumentative... but can we debate on this issue:

why exactly have you a problem with gay marriage?

i'm sorry that i seemd to have sparked yet another 'going round in circles' religion thread - but i found this story really interesting and infuriating!

i'm with you boothy...please explain to me amy why, even if you dont agree with gay marriage, you cant accept that other people do and therefore let them get on with it.

its as if the christians have hit the 'terrible 2s' and are having a tantrum cus they can't get their own way - only they can get their own way cus their bloody big and powerful 2 year olds!

[process]

amy, i won't be offensive or insulting, but probably argumentative... but can we debate on this issue:

why exactly have you a problem with gay marriage?

your wasting your time mate

[amyberthelet]

I sent him a PM about it......I really hate this merry-go-round of insanity!

you must have your own thought processes involved in your decisions to agree with what the 'book' says or is it really as simple as (stupid) blind faith and going along with it all without having your own individual beliefs

Well before I was saved I DID 'think for myself' .... look where THAT got me! Every time I try to go it on my own I screw it up royally.....so I made the decision to follow Christ.

As for the homosexuality issue.....God designed man and woman to be together....it's in Genesis......I know, the Bible again! Hey, believe it or not I was into some pretty strange stuff once, and it was NOT fun.

Listen, please just forget I posted those stupid emoticons.....I don't have to respond to everything....like someone said we know where everyone stands. Any more questions, just click on one of my IMs or PM me pls.

[ellie]

I don't have to respond to everything....like someone said we know where everyone stands.


:laugh_at: I said that...then you went and posted the emoticons! :oh_god:

So i guess it would be best to let this rest - just be careful not to get those emoticons out again! Your views disgust me and i cant help but respond!

[amyberthelet]

ok forgot where I was......we are not subtle at my church...... totally diff. culture......

[Dom_sufc]

This forum's been pretty intense last few weeks eh? :weee:

[MisterDuck]

This forum's been pretty intense last few weeks eh? :weee:

it's all a ploy to draw you back from squatjuice :wink:

[Dom_sufc]

it's all a ploy to draw you back from squatjuice :wink:

I know me roots :laugh_at:

[Dom_sufc]

I know me roots :laugh_at:

Speaking of SJ, I have a brilliant new siggy In the spirit of the place ;) Found completely by accident.

[O-D]

If you are a proper, true Christian bible believer then you would be opposed to gay marriages.

The Bible makes it clear that god hates gays and he doesn't want any of them in heaven since they belong in hell, praise jesus.

So, when gays are getting married in a church before god, I can accept that Christians would have a problem with it because, in their view, god would have a problem with it.

I can understand that people would get angry about people trying to ban gays getting married, but you all have to understand that it is their RELIGION that is telling them that gays cannot be married.. in their mind, gays shouldn't even be gay.

It's not their fault, it's the fuckwit clerics/preachers/vicars etc. and of course the bible, that tell them these things and they've been told to believe it throughout their life.

Don't be angry at the common man, be angry at the people who's career is in religion at the top of the pecking chain.. they know full well that god doesn't exist.. but they're not exactly going to say anything while they have 2+ palaces to live in, eh? Praise jesus.


There is NO need to get angry with Amy because she believes in fiction. Anger gets nowhere. It's not her fault she's been taught to discount provable evidence and instead believing that: "God is just there, because he's there because he's always been there" 'theory' (I say theory with a wince). Religion needs to be teared down yes, but not the people who believe in it.

But yes, Amy, people of your belief do seem to quote scriptures whenever and wherever they are. If I offend a religious person online I get emails of scripture, if I go on a forum and there happens to be a religious person on there you can be 99% sure they've posted scripture, I've talked to religious people on the street and they seem to LOVE reciting scripture at me and anyone else they have a chat with.
People who are not religious have a problem with this because you are not keeping your faith personal and private (like it says you should do in the bible, you cheeky blasphemous person, you!) but instead blurting it out for everyone to have to put up with... I might start going on religious forums and quote lines out of the Origin of Species.. wouldn't that go down a treat.

[amyberthelet]

Where in the Bible does it say to keep your faith private????? For goodness sake - King David danced like a madman in praise and worship! He sang songs! And in the NT Jesus commands the disciples to go and make disciples of the nations!

[MisterDuck]

Where in the Bible does it say to keep your faith private????? For goodness sake - King David danced like a madman in praise and worship! He sang songs! And in the NT Jesus commands the disciples to go and make disciples of the nations!

by all means practice your faith, just not in my general direction thanks.

[General Lighting]

All religions have an element of evangelism in them, but in the prevalent culture in the UK everyone is expected to give each other space (as there simply isn't the physical space for groups to live separately if they don;t agree with one another.)

Texas alone is 3 times the size of the entire United Kingdom!

The UK itself is also made of three countries plus one disputed territory, still at civil war (albeit with less bloodshed in recent times) fuelled by two rival Christian tracts).

it is however very diverse and multicultural, with communities from all over the world living here. All of us have to live in something approaching a civilised manner.all religions/faiths or none are tolerated until people start hurting each other because they can't reach a consensus on how to live.

So its expected in our country not so much that your faith has to be private but people will normally only discuss matters of faith amongst close friends rather than strangers.
However faith groups can openly have their space and resources like churches, mosques, temples and display whatever symbols they want, provided they comply with local (zoning) and national laws. You can wear (within reason) your traditional dress or any badges of faith you wish to, or not follow any faith at all.

Also, if I went into a Christian or Muslim youth group today, tried to be all friendly and talk about music, cats, nature, bicycles etc (and I am interested in all these things) but deep down my plans were to get these youths to go to raves, take drugs, drop out from society and rebel against their families - the leaders of that faith group would be perfectly within their rights to ask me to leave that group or even to call law enforcement if I refused to do so, particularly if I was trying to influence youths <18 years old. If it were a online as opposed to a real life community, the moderators and/or those what paid for the resources would be perfectly within their rights to limit access to the resources if they feel they are being used for the wrong reason.

But I would not even think of doing such a thing as trying to infiltrate and corrupt a faith group as (legalities aside) I feel it is utterly morally wrong to be underhand like that.

[amyberthelet]

Also, if I went into a Christian or Muslim youth group today, tried to be all friendly and talk about music, cats, nature, bicycles etc (and I am interested in all these things) but deep down my plans were to get these youths to go to raves, take drugs, drop out from society and rebel against their families - the leaders of that faith group would be perfectly within their rights to ask me to leave that group or even to call law enforcement if I refused to do so, particularly if I was trying to influence youths <18 years old.


Um YEAH....that's WRONG:you_crazy Same rules apply here as well!

Lessee if I've got it right.... 3 countries - England, Scotland & Wales..disp territory = Ireland? where it's Protestants vs Catholics

[General Lighting]

Um YEAH....that's WRONG:you_crazy Same rules apply here as well!


exactly, so it works the other way - even for communities of so-called "sinners". There's nothing wrong with holding different views but we must be prepared to give each other space.

Lessee if I've got it right.... 3 countries - England, Scotland & Wales..disp territory = Ireland? where it's Protestants vs Catholics

close...

The bit of Ireland controlled by the UK is Northern Ireland (our full title is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland).

Southern Ireland is a sovereign nation in its own right.

You are correct about the two religious factions, which thankfully have finally found some level of uneasy peace and are finally making progress. But this conflict spread across our nation for many years and has shaped the views of all our citizens. I expect it could take another half century before the damage done by this conflict is repaired.

[amyberthelet]

Well that really is sad.....the church - meaning ALL believers - should get along......there's a song that goes 'and they'll know we are Christians by our love'.......

The clash btwn those 2 factions IS 'religion' and THAT's what even GOD HATES! It's not about land or dogma etc.....:you_crazy

[O-D]

Also, if I went into a Christian or Muslim youth group today, tried to be all friendly and talk about music, cats, nature, bicycles etc (and I am interested in all these things) but deep down my plans were to get these youths to go to raves, take drugs, drop out from society and rebel against their families - the leaders of that faith group would be perfectly within their rights to ask me to leave that group or even to call law enforcement if I refused to do so, particularly if I was trying to influence youths <18 years old.


Um YEAH....that's WRONG:you_crazy Same rules apply here as well!

Lessee if I've got it right.... 3 countries - England, Scotland & Wales..disp territory = Ireland? where it's Protestants vs Catholics

I think the point he was trying to make is while doing that is indeed wrong, it's equally wrong to go into a school/youth centre/forum and try and convert kids (or anyone else) to your religion is equally wrong but we're not allowed to tell them to sod off because it'd be offending/insulting etc.

[Raj]

Please remember to attack the posts and not the poster Thank you

And if you dont want to see more endless religion crap all over the forum just ignore Amber completely and she will eventualy get bored and go find a new place to annoy :crazy_fre

[amyberthelet]

er, my name is Amy and I'm not going anywhere ty! I just decided not to keep going round and round about the same stuff is all.....I'm not gonna let anyone run me off!

[MisterDuck]

er, my name is Amy and I'm not going anywhere ty! I just decided not to keep going round and round about the same stuff is all.....I'm not gonna let anyone run me off!

you've been alot better recently, gettin involved in different discussion etc. - and because of that i'll just say ur very welcome here in my eyes

as long as stem the religious views a bit :wink: