Clarifying

[amyberthelet]

Hey all, I would just like to clear something up.....

I am more than happy to DISCUSS my views on religion, answer honest questions etc. ...but if it resorts to ugliness and namecalling, that is NOT what I am into at ALL. I love you all - if I were to meet you in person I'd offer you a beer and invite you in to sit down and chat! :love: My original intent was to help. You are all in my thought ans prayers and I will try to get to know y'all better in time. :group_hug

[Tank Girl]

I love you all

you dont even know me so how can you love me,


this makes me feel uncomfortable when people say this as it just isnt true


and also be aware that some of your views I view as really offensive and ignorant...
hence some of the backlass against you

as I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels this way

[amyberthelet]

Well I'm sorry you feel that way - I do love you all.....! I do not have to like or agree with you or you with me - fair enough. And I just can't understand why people are so offended - but that is your choice. Hey, why should I expect any different than what Christ went through????

[DaftFader]

Well I'm sorry you feel that way - I do love you all.....! I do not have to like or agree with you or you with me - fair enough. And I just can't understand why people are so offended - but that is your choice. Hey, why should I expect any different than what Christ went through????
so your a marter?

[Playground Politics]

you dont even know me so how can you love me,


this makes me feel uncomfortable when people say this as it just isnt true


and also be aware that some of your views I view as really offensive and ignorant...
hence some of the backlass against you

as I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels this way




yeah i agree on some of this

[Angel]

I'm a bit like you in that matter too Amy..

I feel I love everybody too and people really have to treat me bad, for me to turn it to hate (not the right word,really don't like the word hate, but I'm sure you understand what I mean?)

The big difference in us is that I don't try and get everybody to share and agree with my views and opinions. We are all individual beings and we have the right to think and feel what we want and I for one is not going to "tell" people they'll end up in hell if they don't agree with me.. (that's the way you come across to me, and I really don't like that in a person)

I have read the Bible and I have read the Satanic Bible, some of the koran* and other relegious books too, and I can use things from all of them, but only choosing one of them will make me very narrow minded and I wouldn't like myself that way..

1 of my best friends is gay and I care so much for him and his partner, they are both wonderful people and I wish them all the happiness possible.
(you know who you are :wink:)

You make a mistake as a young girl and risk getting pregnant because you haven't been careful, a girl like that should be able to get an abortion when she have heard about what can be done if she want to give the child up for adoption instead..If she still choose to get an abortion she need all the support she can get because it's not an easy decision to make. And she should get that support.

I do however have a friend who have had 4 abortions because she's careless and really don't care about it.. I don't agree with her using abortion as "birth control" instead of taking care of herself.:hopeless:

I do love people, I love the difference in people some good some bad but I'm good and bad too.. I'm not trying to pretend I'm special or have more to gain that others just because of the believe I have..

I'm going to school with a young boy from jehovah's witnesses and I do not agree with anything he stands for in his religious believes, but he's a sweet kid and we just don't talk about it.. He don't look strange at me when I curse our teacher or are saying bad words, and I don't tell him he wrong in not celebrating Christmas or drinking or what ever he's religion " demands " him to do..None of my business. He's a good and sweet guy and none of us are questioning what the other believe and he's not trying to push his opinion in our face either.

We have a man in Denmark we call "moses", he's everywhere telling everybody what to believe and think and that we're all going to fry in hell for not sharing his opinions..

But I think the passion he feel for his religion and the way he always shout out, just push people away and think "what an idiot" and laugh in his face, he is really annoying and the way he try to get people to share his views really just push more people away instead of having them join him..

You're intitled to your believes, but you don't have to let the rest of us hear about it constantly, you really annoy me with the way you try make yourself look better than the rest of us, because you only are in your own book..

There are so many lovely people here and I respect them for the individuals they are and this place would be sad without them.. To be honest, it would be much nicer if you told us about your life before becoming a christian..I would be much more interested in gettin to know the real Amy instead of the Amy who's hiding behind the Bible.

[O-D]

People I meet I treat with respect, but I don't love them nor do I trust them.

Love, like trust, is earned not granted.

- Yet another memorable quote by the loveable (hur hur, I made a pun(is it a pun?)) O-D

[photographthesun]

Hey all, I would just like to clear something up.....

I am more than happy to DISCUSS my views on religion, answer honest questions etc. ...but if it resorts to ugliness and namecalling, that is NOT what I am into at ALL. I love you all - if I were to meet you in person I'd offer you a beer and invite you in to sit down and chat! :love: My original intent was to help. You are all in my thought ans prayers and I will try to get to know y'all better in time. :group_hug

you dont though :( you just put foward statments and then avoid discussing them in any detail..

[DIONYSUS]

and also be aware that some of your views I view as really offensive and ignorant...
hence some of the backlass against you

as I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels this way



+1.

[Tank Girl]

And I just can't understand why people are so offended - but that is your choice. Hey, why should I expect any different than what Christ went through????

I am offended as you are narrow minded and hold inappropriate offensive opinions and views that I feel are totally immorral and totally out of date to modern day society.
just as I am offended if the BNP put their shit leaflets through my door!

whare is your empathy for your fellow humans?

and I personallybelieve the word love is banded around too freely - nothing personal but
- how can you 'love me' - you dont know me, love is built up overtime and goes with trust and friendship IMO

- its crazy and bollox to say this to a complete stranger! :you_crazy

[amyberthelet]

Ok, well I am simply following what Christ would have me do. Not the world's way, but His way. I know you don not understand or accept that....ok.

Angel, I believe you and several others have me pegged wrong.... I am simply agreeing with that Christ taught and what is in the Bible. As a Christian I hold that it is the inerrant Word of God. That is my belief. You see me as narrow-minded because I agree with God! You have issues with me - you have issues with Him!

I THOUGHT I stated that I am NOT condemning you to hell - I CAN'T do anything of the sort!!!!! I also said that I KNOW I cannot change your beliefs - why are you still saying I am?????

I just posted a few prayers thinking I could help.....then I posted an 'answer' because I THOUGHT it would clarify things. My bad.

And yes, as Christians we are to expect hatred and abuse, just like what Jesus went thru. He preached love and he was CRUCIFIED!!!!

I DO have empathy to my fellow man! I do love gays, other races, all sinners - I am one too! I NEVER meant to say that I was better than anyone - I am most emphatically NOT! I tend to curse and drink too much, along with a tendency to anger......

As a Christian all we are to do is spread the word - that doesn't mean it is accepted or welcomed. I NEVER set forth to try and FORCE anything on anyone. I will not try to do so - but I will stand up for what I believe.

[amyberthelet]

Angel & all...I actually did post some stuff about me not rtelated to Christianity - its on the chatter part.....you must've missed it.

[Angel]

but I will stand up for what I believe.

Think we have figured that out :wink:

But please don't keep on going, it's getting really boring :yawn:

[amyberthelet]

well tell the others that - when i stop debating they keep eggin me on!!!!! And the bit about me is in the introductions thread

[noname]

well tell the others that - when i stop debating they keep eggin me on!!!!! And the bit about me is in the introductions thread

I think you would get a great deal further if you didn't come across as someone who is trying to convert us all. It's a bit like preaching on the street corner - people think you're a bammer, and the best you're likely to get is gentle abuse from the passersby...

And before you tell me you're not preaching, and just discussing your views I would point you to the lowdown of all the threads you've started (because forums have this useful feature where you can search by user :wink:)

Apart from your welcome thread: http://www.partyvibe.com/forums/introductions/33314-hi-there.html

In the month you've been here you've started the thread of your life story: http://www.partyvibe.com/forums/drugs/33429-my-story.html which you posted in the drugs forum, but IMO belongs in either religion or chatter.

Then we have http://www.partyvibe.com/forums/spirituality-morality-religion/33700-god-faithful.html , http://www.partyvibe.com/forums/spirituality-morality-religion/33617-when-i-need-stand-strong.html , and my favourite with it's draw in title http://www.partyvibe.com/forums/spirituality-morality-religion/33789-arent-there-some-tough-questions.html. (http://www.partyvibe.com/forums/spirituality-morality-religion/33789-arent-there-some-tough-questions.html) (oh, and in answer to one of the statements in that particular thread - the last time I saw a fundamentalist christian with bombs - other than Bush and the US government for the last 8 years was Timothy McVeigh who didn't have the guts to strap them to his body, and just planted them under a building full of innocent people). Maybe the reason people equate fundamentalist christians with fundamentalist muslims is because they really are very similar - both utterly unwilling to support that any other view is in any way valid, and both secretly hoping that everyone in the world gets either converted, or goes away somehow... Allah and Mohammed never taught that their followers should kill anyone either... It's all down to interpretation, and the idea that the believers are the "chosen ones" (making by default anyone else "not chosen").


Sorry. Preaching is dull. And I find it offensive that you feel a discussion forum is the place to come and state your views and win converts. Because you are not discussing - you know what the truth is, and you're trying to get others to believe along with you (which is not discussion, it is lecturing and proselytizing).

Nil points.

Come back when you have something to discuss.

[p0ly]

amy, you say IM taking things out of context (LOL LOL LOL) plz you said you could explain EVERY one of these bible quotes to me??? go on then......


(Jesus Speaking) If anyone comes to me without hating his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, and even his own life, he can not be my disciple. (Luke 14:26 NAB)

(Jesus speaking) "Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword. For I have come to set a man 'against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and one's enemies will be those of his household'". (Matthew 10:34-36 NAB)
But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust in his eye has already committed adultery with her in his heart. So if your eye – even if it is your good eye – causes you to lust, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your hand – even if it is your stronger hand – causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. (Matthew 5:28-30 NLT)

you honestly cannot explain these bible quotes without sounding stupid.

[amyberthelet]

Ok I COULD explain them, but I really doubt you'd accept my explanation and just call me names......no matter WHAT I said I'd be tagged as stupid. And the more we go round on this in this forum, the others will hate me more. Hence why I suggested a private chat.

And noname, I put my story in the Drugs forum hoping it MIGHT help someone who is ADDICTED like I was! Silly of me I know!:crazy:

Last night a revelation came to me.....I HAVE come across as overzealous...as in a song we sing at DBC...'Zeal for Your house, will consume me.' I forgot that I am a US citizen who as part of a people who in rebellion broke from England centuries ago, might just encounter some bitterness and oppostition. In fact, my husband told me that most people who try to evangelize in the UK from here GIVE UP! I honestly had no clue - I really should have gone about it in a different manner than with guns blazing so to speak.. and for that I apologize. In my country, abortion has only been legal since 1973 - you see that as most backward, since it was NEVER ILLEGAL there.....it's a matter of viewpoint and understanding each other's culture. Over here it's quite common to evangelize - most would NEVER think of doing physical harm to others....albeit there ARE sadly some exceptions (priests raping young boys/girls, and those who CLAIM to be a Christian like McVeigh, who was NOT BTW).....

So please accept an apology from a boisterous overzealous Yank who only was trying to help! :love:

[noname]

And noname, I put my story in the Drugs forum hoping it MIGHT help someone who is ADDICTED like I was! Silly of me I know!:crazy:

A laudable aim, and not silly of you (I've been addicted to things, and also managed to give them up - anything that helps someone do that is to be applauded. I thoroughly disagree that you require god to do it though - I'm one of the most godless bastards you will ever come across, and I could do it... I would question wether, if you feel only god can do it, what you've done is trade one addiction for another... But thats just me - I will always be a great believer in people, and believe very strongly that it is inner strength that allows us to conquer things like addiction....)

[General Lighting]

Last night a revelation came to me.....I HAVE come across as overzealous...as in a song we sing at DBC...'Zeal for Your house, will consume me.' I forgot that I am a US citizen who as part of a people who in rebellion broke from England centuries ago, might just encounter some bitterness and oppostition.

this is nothing whatsoever to do with the American war of Independence (which probably isn't even taught much in British high schools today), nor for being American. there are many American users of this site who don't encounter opposition, and people here still appreciate things such as the popularisation of the Internet that US investment brought to the UK.

Its simply because any evangelist is viewed with suspicion by a community on the fringes of "normal" society, whatever country or faith they may come from. We get them here, from all the sections of society including reformed crack smokers, some are native British, others come from foreign lands.

There is also already a strong Christian community in this nation for those people who wish to be part of it. The same applies for other religions practiced in this nation, but by and large people give each other space and don't attempt to convert others - they wait for people to seek their own faith.

Incidentally, abortion in this country was made formally illegal in 1829 - and remained so (with rare exceptions) until 1967. Prior to 1829 women who helped other women procure abortions were often judged and viewed as witches by the locals, and often punished by being burned alive.

England was until the 1960s dominated by a Conservative christian minority with money and power, until a change in power structures meant younger people got more of a voice.

This change led to such things as pop culture, the pirate radio stations, the Beatles, Queen etc and all UK youth culture stems from this... but it means therefore that any attempt to impose conservative christian values on younger fringe communities in this country (or even many "normal" people) will result in conflict.

[amyberthelet]

noname, YES I am addicted to JESUS!!!! Another song goes..'You are my bliss, You are my drug, You are my addiction'!!

GL, thanks for the info - here in the US evangelists spread the word because we are commanded to do so..it is the Great Commission. In the Bible it states that if you do not warn others of the wrath to come, you are responsible - their blood will be on your hands. We are the 'watchmen on the wall'. That was where my zeal came from.

[Tank Girl]

it has nothing to do with history -

as GL has given you the facts,

but also I am utterly shit at history and the above mentioned wouldnt even have come into my conciousness




In fact, my husband told me that most people who try to evangelize in the UK from here GIVE UP! I honestly had no clue - I really should have gone about it in a different manner than with guns blazing so to speak.. and for that I apologize.


So please accept an apology from a boisterous overzealous Yank who only was trying to help! :love:

again I'm confused?
I thought you'd said before you wernt here to preach / convert ?
isnt this what you've just admitted your doing?


[quote=amyberthelet;243931 - here in the US evangelists spread the word because we are commanded to do so..it is the Great Commission. In the Bible it states that if you do not warn others of the wrath to come, you are responsible - their blood will be on your hands. We are the 'watchmen on the wall'. That was where my zeal came from.[/quote]


again back to personal responsibility - I and only I am responsible for the good and bad choices I make - no one else.......

I can only be responsible for myself not anyone else (unless I were to have a child who is too young to make their own decisions / choices until they are )

[amyberthelet]

The intent to come on here was to HELP those who may be addicted and are looking for a way out.....

My point of view comes from The Bible - you are not a Christian so of course you're not held responsible for others.....

[noname]

The intent to come on here was to HELP those who may be addicted and are looking for a way out.....

My point of view comes from The Bible - you are not a Christian so of course you're not held responsible for others.....

I would question wether saying the only way to beat addiction is to believe in god:
Yes, beating crack IS possible – but only by letting GOD do it!

is actually helpful...

That isn't the only way to beat addiction (and yes - we know you've swapped the crack addiction for a jesus one - one questions that swapping one addiction for a more socially acceptable one is beating it however...)

By all means help people by telling your story, but do remember the old proverb about good intentions and the road to hell....

[p0ly]

doesnt god have a 'Divine Plan'!!!! so w/e crap comes out of ur mouth wont make a difference, i get very pissed off with religious people cos they HONESTLY think i should go 2 hell for eternity (WOT a fucking ridiculous, superfluous x100000000000000 punishment) cos i dont believe in a fake god, whos gospel has so many ridiculous parts that only a fool would belive it..................... like god would even bother letting you into heaven after all uve been through. if richard dawkins on his death bed repents and fully believes in god he'll be let into heaven??????? LOL GL AMY WOT A WASTE OF A LIFE YOU ONLY GET ONCE!!! HELL = FEAR FOR WEAK PEOPLE

[amyberthelet]

Please deal with your anger issues w GOD, not me. I am getting frustrated and angry, and nothing good can come of that. If you don't believe, then WHY LET IT BOTHER YOU SO MUCH???

And yes, if Richard Dawkins repented on his deathbed, and meant it, yes he would go to heaven. Anyone would.

I cannot PROVE the existence of God....Thomas Aquinas even tried....just because you cannot EXPLAIN asomething doesn't mean it does not exist - back in the 50's they weren't able to explain quarks!

I'm gonna go and pray - not worth losing my temper over!

[p0ly]

lol im not seriously angry AT ALL, its text on a computer??? LOL ahahahhahahaha i said swear words AND TYPED IN CAPITALS SO THAT MEANS IM REALLY ANGRY!!!! i have great internet anger INFLECTION!!!

nothing uve said makes sense in any shape or form to me, oh but there will be some ridiculous reason why i cannot see this and i am in the wrong for illogical dumbass reasons. tbh amy all u have done is made me (and im guessing the majority of people who have read your comments) think ur religion and country is alot more dumb than before u started, plz explain all these comments and been asking you??? because you will sound stupid answering them on a forum???? LOL sorry all i can say to you is you are a fucking moron sorry but that is honestly wot i think of you and ur fucking horrible cult

[amyberthelet]

Well God bless you too.

Bye.

:love:

[TEK Tonic]

Well I'm sorry you feel that way - I do love you all.....! I do not have to like or agree with you or you with me - fair enough. And I just can't understand why people are so offended - but that is your choice. Hey, why should I expect any different than what Christ went through????

Yep - you're just like Jesus. You and the J-man are almost the same person really. God bless you for trying to save us all.

[TEK Tonic]

I THOUGHT I stated that I am NOT condemning you to hell - I CAN'T do anything of the sort!!!!! I also said that I KNOW I cannot change your beliefs - why are you still saying I am?????





well I am simply following what Christ would have me do. Not the world's way, but His way. I know you don not understand or accept that....ok.



So you ARE trying to condemn us all to hell because that is what Jesus (or God) does and you are blindly (faithfully) doing what Jesus tells you to do.

[DIONYSUS]

lol im not seriously angry AT ALL, its text on a computer??? LOL ahahahhahahaha i said swear words AND TYPED IN CAPITALS SO THAT MEANS IM REALLY ANGRY!!!! i have great internet anger INFLECTION!!!

nothing uve said makes sense in any shape or form to me, oh but there will be some ridiculous reason why i cannot see this and i am in the wrong for illogical dumbass reasons. tbh amy all u have done is made me (and im guessing the majority of people who have read your comments) think ur religion and country is alot more dumb than before u started, plz explain all these comments and been asking you??? because you will sound stupid answering them on a forum???? LOL sorry all i can say to you is you are a fucking moron sorry but that is honestly wot i think of you and ur fucking horrible cult

2 wrongs dont make a right etc etc etc dont judge a whole country on one person ete etc etc devils advocate blah blah blah.

[amyberthelet]

I am not the judge.....yes I follow Jesus but I do not point fingers and go - YOU - damned to hell!!! Everyone has a choice....how bout I live my life & you live yours......I did what I saw as right, but you in no way have to accept it. Nobody is condemned at this point! Let's all enjoy the life we are given and be friends.

[GrassChopper]

Love religion :love: or hate it :head_bang... I think everyone has to agree it's the number 1 cause (by a huge margin) of arguements everywhere.

Bloody religion :laugh_at:

Also I'd like to announce my love for the ideals of Shamanism raaa

[Angel]

Let's all enjoy the life we are given and be friends.

That will never happen if people don't stop writing on these threads..

It's just the never ending story and we'll never agree so these threads will keep on forever :hopeless:

[DIONYSUS]

That will never happen if people don't stop writing on these threads..

It's just the never ending story and we'll never agree so these threads will keep on forever :hopeless:

maybe one of the mods could lock all the threads that seem to be going round in circles and are just ending up getting abusive rather than interesting...

[O-D]

maybe one of the mods could lock all the threads that seem to be going round in circles and are just ending up getting abusive rather than interesting...

That would be a good idea, except then the 'Spirituality, Morality and Religion' section might as well be deleted.

And to be perfectly honest, I actually am insulted that morality is in the same room as spirituality and religion, because it implies morality is from spirituality and/or religion so that implies Atheists don't have any moral values.

[General Lighting]

That would be a good idea, except then the 'Spirituality, Morality and Religion' section might as well be deleted.

And to be perfectly honest, I actually am insulted that morality is in the same room as spirituality and religion, because it implies morality is from spirituality and/or religion so that implies Atheists don't have any moral values.

TBH the reason these were combined was partly because if there are too many sub forums the board gets unwieldy for both users and mods/admins - but it was also to show the opposite - that as you say people who don't celebrate a conventional form of religion or spirituality can (and of course should) have some kind of moral values and debate them. If we'd had a religion only board it may have only attracted those what thought they were "believers!". Also there are people who don't folllow organised worship but consider themselves to be "spiritual".

I was once a Christian but have not attended worship for nearly 20 years in a protest at the in fighting between religions in this country which I have already explained in some depth.

However (despite on occasions doing stuff such as breaking drugs laws etc) I do consider myself to have strong morals and values (to the point where I have even boycotted certain parties and events because I don't agree with things what are going on there) without being part of any organised religion.