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View Full Version : Drug Tolerance Policy: Yes or no?


Metallama
08-05-2008, 07:30 PM
Hello everybody immersed in the world of mind alteration.

I live in the Netherlands and as most people who use drugs are familiar with, we have a drug tolerance policy.

In my opinion, this policy is a good one, although it has it's drawbacks (just like everything in life, by the way). I was wondering how the rest of the world viewed this policy. But then I'll first have to explain it.

In short, this is how it works:

- Marijuana, Salvia Divinorum and Magic Mushrooms have been semi-legalised. These are called "softdrugs".

- To acquire any of these you must be 18 years of age or above.

- The government has also established a maximum amount you can carry along concerning weed (to stop dealers from being able to legally drag loads of pot around to sell it to minors). You can buy only 5 grams of weed at an appointed shop, and officially spoken you can't carry more than 5 grams with you. But usually law enforcers do not prosecute you when you carry less that 30 grams.

- You are not allowed to use any of these substances in public domain, except some bars, coffeehouses, concert halls and festivals which specifically allow usage of weed. The shops which sell weed ofcourse provide accomodations for usage.

- You are allowed to grow your own quantities of these substances to certain extent. You are allowed to keep five marijuana plants (for personal use), and because mushrooms and salvia are sold far less and rarely sold outside the appointed shops you can grow as much of those as you want.

- Weed is sold in Coffeeshops. (Semi-)legalised drugs, or legal substances with drug effects are sold in smartshops, along with all the equipment needed to enhance drug experiences, or to aid your body after bad experiences with (hard)drugs. Home-growth equipment and seeds are sold at Growshops.

- Only cities may have these shops within their borders, and not too close to schools. What further limitations are applied is different in every city.

There are, however, some strange side-notes to this policy.

For example, the use and sale of these drugs have only been semi-legalised out of political stance (to not seem soft and powerless to other countries, that is).

This leads to strange situations, because Coffeeshop owners are not allowed to stock more that 100-150 grams and they are not allowed to buy these amounts, because they'd have to buy it from a dealer, which is illegal. Dealers get the weed from growers, who'd have to own more than five plants to get large amounts of weed, which is also illegal.

Personally, I think the policy works great, because although it's easy for people (minors included) to be high on drugs all the time, it's still not all that dangerous because the addictive potential of weed is very low (the noticeable effects are boredom when you're sober and nicotine addiction from the (usually) needed tabacco to roll the joints).

Salvia and mushrooms have virtually zero addictive potential, both mentally and physically, so the only thing threatening about it is the overwhelming experience. But since Smartshops give very detailed information and support about how to safely use it, that's also relatively safe.
Also, since THC triggers tolerance adaption, it's impossible to constantly be high on weed because you don't feel anything of it anymore when you use too much. Psilocybin and psilocin (mushrooms) only have effect once every week, and only have full potential again a month after the last time used. Salvia only lasts 10-15 minutes and only has psychedelic effects.

Since it's no real tabboo in the Netherlands, it's far easier to get support when you have a problem as a result of using softdrugs. Also, since it's fairly easy to acquire these substances, people interested in trying it are not forced to find a dealer and immediately be involved with criminals. Next to that, you can also be sure that whatever you get will always be safe, since shops can be held liable for bad quality drugs.

As far as I'm concerned every country should adopt this policy, because it solves a lot of issues concerning use of less dangerous drugs. Although I do think these drugs should be officially legalised, only controlled like alcohol. Not just semi-legalised to avoid criticism. And weed should be grown legally by people with special permits, who are controlled by the government every now and then.

General Lighting
08-05-2008, 07:35 PM
are mushrooms still legal in the NL? I thought they had been made illegal fairly recently (they were even legal in the UK until 2005 due to a mistake in the law!)

DaftFader
08-05-2008, 07:39 PM
As far as I'm concerned every country should adopt this policy, because it solves a lot of issues concerning use of less dangerous drugs.i agree that alot more contrys should be more drug "easy" ... not only because of the fact that drugs arn't the "KILLER" of all humanity .. like they make out along with global warming and some other things .. but thats another story.... but also because for any pionier contry with a "drug exceptance" will not only get shuned by the others that dont have these policys .. but also all the scum from others will move there for easy targets .. like you get in holland donw the back streats ... if there where more contrys like holland .. then holland wouldn't be such a "hot spot" for this kind of shit ... :group_hug

DaftFader
08-05-2008, 07:43 PM
are mushrooms still legal in the NL? I thought they had been made illegal fairly recently (they were even legal in the UK until 2005 due to a mistake in the law!)shit .. was it 2005 they made mushies illigal .. i went up to camden last year and was horified that i couldn't get any .. was shocked that they were illigal lol ... what was this mistake? .. the fact that they were legal unprepared? .. why was that loop hole there? .. because of the fact that they grow naturaly in the uk? ... if so what happens if you get found out to have mushrooms growing nateraly on your land?

Metallama
08-05-2008, 07:57 PM
Mushrooms are still legal, but the government is planning on banning it. Our current government is a bit conservative. Personally I view them as a bunch of small-minded clowns, since we have Harry Potter for president. Harry Potter on Ritalin that is (no offence to clowns though).

DaftFader
08-05-2008, 09:15 PM
no offence to clowns thoughtoo right :laugh_at:

Metallama
08-05-2008, 10:32 PM
By the way, if anybody votes against drug tolerance, please let me know why:P

General Lighting
09-05-2008, 11:25 AM
Mushrooms are still legal, but the government is planning on banning it. Our current government is a bit conservative. Personally I view them as a bunch of small-minded clowns, since we have Harry Potter for president. Harry Potter on Ritalin that is (no offence to clowns though).

I've always considered the Netherlands to be a fairly well run European nation, which in some aspects appears to have a more tolerant outlook to life in general than Great Britain.

In other words, this is not Zimbabwe. Your elections are doubtless free and fair, so what drove the consensus of people to vote for that political party?

This is the big question that must be asked. I have a nasty feeling that a lot of "normal" Dutch people are embarrased by the reputation the country has

ask many British people about NL and they will just say "drugs and sex".

They are often unaware of the architecture, skill in engineering and high technology in your country - its often overshadowed by its reputation as a "hedonists paradise" (which also has a darkside).

Metallama
09-05-2008, 12:23 PM
I've always considered the Netherlands to be a fairly well run European nation, which in some aspects appears to have a more tolerant outlook to life in general than Great Britain.

In other words, this is not Zimbabwe. Your elections are doubtless free and fair, so what drove the consensus of people to vote for that political party?

This is the big question that must be asked. I have a nasty feeling that a lot of "normal" Dutch people are embarrased by the reputation the country has

ask many British people about NL and they will just say "drugs and sex".

They are often unaware of the architecture, skill in engineering and high technology in your country - its often overshadowed by its reputation as a "hedonists paradise" (which also has a darkside).

Quite true. Sad though that small-mindedness, shame and prejudice should rule political voting. It's like we're still in the stone age.

General Lighting
09-05-2008, 01:09 PM
Quite true. Sad though that small-mindedness, shame and prejudice should rule political voting. It's like we're still in the stone age.

it is this what has to change before any progress can be made - and maybe also the behaviour of the drug users as well?

the sad fact is similar experiments in other European countries have been tried on a number of occasions and deemed a failure (DK and SE) - with prohibition returning worse than before.

even with the current more "liberal" countries there is still no real tolerance of drug use, particularly amongst non drug users.

its still viewed by many as a crime and immoral to take drugs, and this is the attitude which needs change.

process
09-05-2008, 06:51 PM
@Metallamais that a picture of dmt crystals in your avatar?

Metallama
10-05-2008, 01:36 AM
it is this what has to change before any progress can be made - and maybe also the behaviour of the drug users as well?

the sad fact is similar experiments in other European countries have been tried on a number of occasions and deemed a failure (DK and SE) - with prohibition returning worse than before.

even with the current more "liberal" countries there is still no real tolerance of drug use, particularly amongst non drug users.

its still viewed by many as a crime and immoral to take drugs, and this is the attitude which needs change.

Very true. The fear and negative thinking which has been imprinted upon the "non drug users" community concering drug (ab)use seems to be far stronger than grown-up behaviour like independant thinking and objective analysis (non drug users does not literally apply here, since alcohol is a very dangerous yet socially accepted drug, and caffeine is actually more addictive than any psychedelic drug, also causing more physical harm).

It's really a sad thing, because a major part of health issues and social risks concerning drug use come from the inability to bring the problem out to the public because it's condemned by society. In the age when scientific research and objective review of everything known to man seems to pave the road to enlightenment, mankind is still too stubborn to give taboo subjects like drug use a chance.


@Metallamais that a picture of dmt crystals in your avatar?

Yes it is.

process
10-05-2008, 05:43 PM
whats the rules on dmt over where you are is it classed as one of the hard drugs or is it unregulated?

party on
11-05-2008, 12:47 PM
personally i think the dutch have the right idea to policing drugs ..shame this country isnt the same

party on raaa

Metallama
11-05-2008, 07:13 PM
whats the rules on dmt over where you are is it classed as one of the hard drugs or is it unregulated?

It's a hard drug. But as long as you don't use it on the streets and don't carry more than half a gram around police won't necessarily make a fuss about it, unless you're already in a far less than sober state or you start making trouble.

process
12-05-2008, 10:08 AM
It's a hard drug. But as long as you don't use it on the streets and don't carry more than half a gram around police won't necessarily make a fuss about it, unless you're already in a far less than sober state or you start making trouble.
does that mean that they are going to make mushrooms as hard drugs as well when they do it?

Metallama
12-05-2008, 01:16 PM
does that mean that they are going to make mushrooms as hard drugs as well when they do it?

Mushrooms are already softdrugs. So when the government decides they're too dangerous, they'll become outlawed.

There is a sort of slumbering motion going around between politicians to ban mushrooms for quite a while now, but they don't seem to push it through. It'd be pretty stupid too, because magic mushrooms grow everywhere in moist soil. The Netherlands even have their own brand of psychoactive mushroom, "Inheemse Kaalkopje" (not a very popular shroom though).

JonnyQuest
12-05-2008, 10:02 PM
they grow here aswell buddy dont stop em being illegal as fuck

MisterDuck
12-05-2008, 10:59 PM
they grow here aswell buddy dont stop em being illegal as fuck

innit.

fuck it, weed will probably grow natural in some places, bet its still illegal in said places tho

the one thing that is different bout mushrooms is the fact they grow everywhere means you don't have to go through dodgy dealers and risk of impure drugs etc. which is good, and there is no way the government can cut off the supply no matter how many they arrest

Metallama
12-05-2008, 11:38 PM
they grow here aswell buddy dont stop em being illegal as fuck

True :wink: But I think it's stupid of your government (and any other government for that matter) to ban 'em while they're so easy to get. I mean, they grow in every moist, not too warm surrounding and just pop up all over the place in the fall. Instead on focusing on being angry at people eating everybody's favorite entertainment champignon, it'd be far more useful just to sell them in a controlled environment so people can just get them (with proper age limit and guidance from the store clerck ofcourse) and not have to get into either a criminal circuit, or have the chance of picking the wrong mushroom and being in for a nasty surprise.

JonnyQuest
13-05-2008, 12:14 AM
it keeps out the commoners

JulesDogg
20-05-2008, 02:54 AM
As of 18 July (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_18)2005 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005), both dried and "prepared" (that is, made into a tea) psilocybin mushrooms were made illegal in the United Kingdom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom). Prior to this date, fresh mushrooms were widely available (even in city centre shops), but section 21 of the Drugs Act 2005 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Drugs_Act_2005&action=edit&redlink=1) made fresh psychedelic mushrooms ("fungi containing psilocin"), a Class A drug (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_A_drug). Prior to these laws being passed, possession and use of psilocybin and psilocin was prohibited, but courts had ruled the law did not apply to naturally-occurring substances containing these compounds, and for a brief period Psilocybe cubensis and other psilocybin mushrooms were sold in farmers markets. Mushrooms spores are not illegal, due to the fact they do not carry psilocin until they are cultivated.

Absurd