Anti-smoking in legals?

[doolittle]

Well watching the news this afternoon on good old Channel4 i have watch a topic about the new anti-Smoking rules!

Did you know that in Scotland alone the sales of drink and peole using public houses, clubs have dropped as much as 46% in customers not using public venues and the sale of Drinks has also been reduced by another 26%, But the Food scene in restaurants has gone up quite alot and has risen by 26%!

So what are you opinions on the anti-smoking that WILL take place next year! On one point i am worried because im a Promoter and of course this will hit my events pretty hard, Ok alot of people are saying things will drop to start off with but will pick right back up again after people get used to it. On a bonus for myself im a smoker who does find it very hard to give up and its alot harder when im booked to play for events because i see so many people smoking and jiust get the taste for it, so djing does not really help me give up smoking even if i have not had a fag during the week and as soon as i go out or play out and have a drink or two inside me then of i go again!

So whats your opinions on this matter?

[General Lighting]

So what are you opinions on the anti-smoking that WILL take place next year! On one point i am worried because im a Promoter and of course this will hit my events pretty hard, Ok alot of people are saying things will drop to start off with but will pick right back up again after people get used to it.
well our Scottish crew still seem to be finding events and venues

OTOH I do think there is a risk that those who depend on venue management for their incomes will move away from events which may attract smokers to increase their potential revenue, so smaller venues may fold (because the investors remove their backing) or become restaurants..

Tobacco is one of the most powerful addictions and the state restricting it will just end up with a proportion of people who do not accept the ban voting with their feet and buying booze/fags from the off license and socialising at home.

On a bonus for myself im a smoker who does find it very hard to give up and its alot harder when im booked to play for events because i see so many people smoking and jiust get the taste for it, so djing does not really help me give up smoking even if i have not had a fag during the week and as soon as i go out or play out and have a drink or two inside me then of i go again!

me too - I went from 20+ a day when I was in my teens to mostly occasional smoking at weekends... my dad smoked a lot and it didn't do him any good (he was very unwell in his middle age and passed away some years ago) so I am supposed to know better..

I am actually against the smoking ban as I don't think its acceptable to limit everyones freedom just because a few people cannot regulate themselves (although I think its inevitable)

I worked in public sector finance for some years and have been told by a number of knowledgeable people that if the tax off cigs and booze was given directly to the NHS instead of being spent on wars and millenium domes, every hospital in the country would be fully equipped and no one would be waiting for operations etc...

[doolittle]

I worked in public sector finance for some years and have been told by a number of knowledgeable people that if the tax off cigs and booze was given directly to the NHS instead of being spent on wars and millenium domes, every hospital in the country would be fully equipped and no one would be waiting for operations etc...[/quote]

Scary thought that one really

I also belive that if people have to go outside to have a ciggie this means that a load of Drunken 20somethings will have to stand outside in the cold in bad moods and = FIGHTS

Also i reckon that this will push alot of people into the Freepart scene which means the scum we try to keep away will be invading the free party scene

[doolittle]

p.s
hope its ok to post this in here

[General Lighting]

I remember years ago reading a Judge Dredd comic where smoking was illegal and so illegal "smokatoriums" were set up...

TBH the scum are already trying to invade the free party scene (like the gang problems in some areas) but what I think is more worrying is that authorities are going to have more ammunition to stop it ; someone is gonna whip up some hysteria that free party people are "funding their events by selling smuggled tobacco to young people" whether this is true or not.....

p.s
hope its ok to post this in here

yep - can't see a problem with it; these issues need to be discussed...

[ashleywhat?]

i don't see how this can even be regulated especially in clubs. you can't go out to have a fag and I don't see people going 6+ hours without a smoke. and who's gonna stop em? will there be smoke marshalls with clipboards monitoring the clubbers? just like laws against drugs this is completely unenforceable

[Tank Girl]

I was a smoker for 15 years

(even did the stopping rollies - went on to cigars - ended up on 2 packs of cafe creme plus aday - for 2 years - went back on the fags etc)

and I wanted to stop (for my health etc) and decided I'd have to do it as 'my choice' rather than having it imposed upon me in venues / pubs etc as that would just get my back up,
so I stopped around 7 months ago and still doing well raaa :bounce_fl :bounce_g:

however my other half still smokes as many as ever and we don't go to our local pub anymore as it is totally non-smoking and I am sure he'll avoid other places if he cant smoke - so I personally think it will affect buisnesses.

But I agree that there may be difficulties imposing it, my local hospital is a 'no smoking trust' however everyone ignores this and staff and patients alike still light up. I personally also think in some places i.e pcychiatric wards etc it would be unfair to futher restrict peoples rights despite the health implications.

[ashleywhat?]

well done tank girl for giving up
I lasted 3 days when i tried. it's well hard.
that's the thing, I can't even make myself stop smoking, nevermind the law. and i thinka lot of people are in the same boat.
not really sure what this new law is hoping to achiev but it will be interesting to see how it turns out

[globalloon]

i don't see how this can even be regulated especially in clubs.

first person to light up gets 'exited' :hopeless:

and so it goes on

it can be regulated same way as weed :cry:

sweden banned smoking a couple of years ago... according to research, clubs now smell of farts :yakk:

[BigAndy]

sweden banned smoking a couple of years ago... according to research, clubs now smell of farts :yakk:


I aint going clubbin in sweden then innit:crazy::yakk::crazy:


Personally i only smoke draw so it makes no difference to me, im outside in the pub garden rain or shine.:groucho:

[Raj]

seems to be working in scotland now

the clubs all smell a bit odd though:weee:

[BioTech]

I'm not a smoker so I'm not bothered, but I know that I would be annoyed if I was.

I'm suprised people allow it. If everyone sparked up in a club/pub are they going to throw everyone out or ban them?

[Raj]

they let them all outside to smoke and then back in again:you_crazy:you_crazy:you_crazy

[Amelia]

personally i think its rediculous... :rant:
if a law like this can be imposed all over the UK then i'd imagine anything can be particularly with all the other regulations sneaking in now (more so than ever i'd imagine)
I think a mass uprise will be needed in the near future
hmmm... tis probly enevitable actually :crazy_diz

please excuse my spelling... im tired, forgott to sleep :hopeless:

[General Lighting]

what worries me is that although it hasn't caused massive economic problems in Scotland and the Republic of Ireland (IE) there has been an impact on smaller venues.

the superclubs and theme pubs will swallow the not insignificant cost of putting in shelters etc; but the smaller venues may find this wipes out a lot of profit and may not have the resources to concentrate more on food sales etc as there are more regulations etc

I think there is a wider picture though; there has been a massive backlash against the "permissiveness" of society from the 1960s to 1990s and I think its the puritan lobby fighting back.

Smoking bans are becoming commonplace worldwide and in places with indoor smoking bans soon they become outdoor smoking bans and also end up with more resources being available to monitor other "licensing issues"

I've noticed a lot of "Western" politicians (Blair, Bush, Gordon Brown, David Cameron) are taking a harder line about acceptable lifestyles and anti hedonism - even if they have once had "wild phases" in their lives.

[Raj]

i have to say that i enjoy not going out and coming home reeking of ciggarettes but i agree with GL on this

pretty soon there are going to be no personal liberties - this will eventually cause a migration of people out of the UK to other less restricted areas where the individuals can manage it - somewhere with less rules and restrictions :hopeless:

[Meep]

I don't even smoke but I hate the idea that things get forbidden. I don't believe in anyone's right to tell others what to do as long as it doesn't harm others (harm to yourself should be a personal choice), and no one is forced to go to pubs / clubs where there is tobacco smoke. By being banned, tobacco will acquire the 'forbidden fruit' flavour and be even more attractive to teenagers - hardly the result that is hoped for.

[General Lighting]

I don't even smoke but I hate the idea that things get forbidden. I don't believe in anyone's right to tell others what to do as long as it doesn't harm others (harm to yourself should be a personal choice), and no one is forced to go to pubs / clubs where there is tobacco smoke.

friends of mine used to squat a lot of smaller pubs in SE England that had closed down (we would convert them into small party venues and arts/workshop places).

most had closed down around 2001/02 - but already invested in these extractor/air ioniser things to remove cigarette smoke from the roof space and remove it via a vent.

I have managed to get quite a few of these devices working and they were effective at removing the smoke (I was surprised they were left behind TBH!)

All these venues seemed to already have smoking/no smoking areas anyway. One even had a sign saying "NO SMOKING ON THE DANCEFLOOR" - to which I later added "AND NO DANCING IN THE ASHTRAYS".

[Raj]

All these venues seemed to already have smoking/no smoking areas anyway. One even had a sign saying "NO SMOKING ON THE DANCEFLOOR" - to which I later added "AND NO DANCING IN THE ASHTRAYS".

:laugh_at::laugh_at::laugh_at::laugh_at:

[Raj]

effective extraction seems more sensible to me and no smoking areas is good too

and it would remove the effectiveness of bl**dy smoke machines too:weee:

[Meep]

"AND NO DANCING IN THE ASHTRAYS".

:biggreen:

[doolittle]

at he end of the day


SMOKING MAKES ME LOOK COOL

[Acidfairy]

I actually don't mind the smoking ban up here at all and i smoke.. Its actually a good way to be able to go outside and cool down when u've been dancing like hell for hours...

But as mentioned before u can smell everyones farts all shape sizes and colours imaginable.. its dire.. last month at eruptor i reckon one guy must've had a curry before he came out he was reeking...

[General Lighting]

apparently France introduces a smoking ban on 2007-01-01

surely that would be tantamount to their Govt selling the Eiffel Tower to the Chinese for scrap metal?

I wonder if there will be more riots?

[Acidfairy]

Yikes that would be like Saudi Arabia tryin to do that lol

[doolittle]

http://images.bigoo.ws/content/gif/funny/funny_31.gif

[globalloon]

apparently France introduces a smoking ban on 2007-01-01

france already implemented a smoking ban about 6 years ago

nowhere took it on board and the law was never inforced, beyond about 30% of cafes having a no-smoking area sign up in one part of their premesis which is ignored by all

FFS the french cops refuse to even take a statement about serious crime such as attempted rape (even if they have they have witnessed it), so enforcing a smoking ban seems unlikely in the extreme

[doolittle]

france already implemented a smoking ban about 6 years ago

nowhere took it on board and the law was never inforced, beyond about 30% of cafes having a no-smoking area sign up in one part of their premesis which is ignored by all

FFS the french cops refuse to even take a statement about serious crime such as attempted rape (even if they have they have witnessed it), so enforcing a smoking ban seems unlikely in the extreme


Thats bad

[Shit Robot]

Personally i only smoke draw so it makes no difference to me, im outside in the pub garden rain or shine.:groucho:

Me Too! Maybe see you in a pub Garden one day,Ours will be the table in the cloud of smoke and the ripped up Rizzla packets on the table.

[BigAndy]

Me Too! Maybe see you in a pub Garden one day,Ours will be the table in the cloud of smoke and the ripped up Rizzla packets on the table.

Im already there!:weee:

[Shit Robot]

:laugh_at::laugh_at::laugh_at::laugh_at::bounce_ci :bounce_ci:bounce_ci:bounce_ci

[doolittle]

:bounce_fl :bounce_fl :bounce_g: :bounce_fl just thought would join in

[Wide]

I'm quite in favour of the smoking ban in pubs, not so sure its gonna be much fun in clubs, especially if they start stinking of everyone's farts :/

Its not really about telling people what they can and can't do to themselves but about preventing people from harming other people. I don't consider myself a puritan/killjoy btw :) and think posession of drugs should be decriminalised.

I'm just finishing writing my dissertation on this topic if anyone's interested in reading it when its finished pm me.

[General Lighting]

my worries are not so much the ban itself but what is known as "function creep" - a phenomenon originally from technology/engineering sciences that carries through to wider society... where a system used for one purpose gets used for others.

if a ban is put in place, it needs to be enforced.

That means that various people in authority will need to patrol venues to look for smokers; and expect non-smokers to call up anonymous hotlines to report the breaking of this ban.

the Police may not have the resources to do this; so the job will probably go to uniformed and maybe even covert Council enforcement officers; the same ones who deal with licensing, environmental health etc, although cops will be on standby in case things get nasty (it is after all denying an addict their drug)

so a check for smokers could end up with people in authority also noticing "the music is a bit loud here" / "they have been playing an extra two tunes after shut down time" / "people are also using "going off for a cig" to obtain and deal drugs (this IMO could be the biggest threat to the club scene)

voila; yet more restrictions on the late night party scene...

[the rev]

my boss is pretty worried about this. we dont really have any decent outdoor area unlike a couple of similar venues in town. I dont give a monkeys though im off travelling again in march!:bounce_fl :bounce_g: :bounce_fl :bounce_g: :bounce_fl :bounce_g:

[r1cky1]

Try and stop me where or when i want a ciggy.

I dont think so... that aint happening...

[Raj]

its working in scotland - the new complaint is about discarded butts outside :crazy:

its very strange to go to clubs and not have people smoke around you

[Raj]

France to impose smoking ban from next year

Sun Oct 8, 2006 7:37 PM BSThttp://i.today.reuters.co.uk/images/spacer.gif
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PARIS (Reuters) - France said on Sunday it will ban smoking in most public places from next February and in bars, restaurants, hotels and night clubs 11 months later.
"We have decided to ban smoking in public places from February 1, 2007," Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin told RTL radio and LCI television.
The familiar "bar-tabacs," special bars that sell tobacco, night clubs and other such places would have until January 1, 2008 at the latest to comply with the rules, he said.

Public places include stations, museums, government offices and shops but the ban will not extend to the streets or private places such as houses or hotel rooms.
Villepin said the state would provide for one-third of the costs of anti-smoking treatments, such as patches.
"That would represent the first month of treatment," he said.
In a report presented on Wednesday, several parliamentarians called for a total ban from September 1, 2007 at the latest, without exception. But a smoking ban will cause problems for the many tobacco shops in France.
Villepin declined to comment on the impact it would have on government tax revenues, saying public health considerations outweighed any such fiscal impact.
In the report, the parliamentarians said each year between 2,500 and 5,800 people died of the consequences of passive smoking, inhaling the smoke of smokers.
Around a quarter of the adult population smokes in France and some 66,000 smokers die each year.
Polls regularly show that a majority of French people support a ban on smoking in public places.
Weakened by a battle with trade unions and students over a controversial youth jobs contract, the government backed away in April from a ban on smoking in bars and restaurants to avoid a clash with France's many smokers and tobacconists.

Ireland imposed the world's first nationwide public smoking ban in 2004. Italy, Sweden, Scotland, Norway and Spain have followed suit to varying degrees.
Belgium, Britain, Northern Ireland and Portugal are expected to put new tighter rules in place next year.



[url]http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/articlenews.aspx?type=healthNews&storyID=2006-10-08T183502Z_01_L08148626_RTRIDST_0_HEALTH-FRANCE-SMOKING-DC.XML

[Signal Jammer]

Check this link out for a 'smoking bus' suggestion for one of the Dublin pubs when they first brought their ban in

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3593135.stm

[globalloon]

France to impose smoking ban from next year

Sun Oct 8, 2006 7:37 PM
PARIS (Reuters) - France said on Sunday it will ban smoking in most public places from next February and in bars, restaurants, hotels and night clubs 11 months later

the wierd thing with this is that there is already leislation which means that bars, clubs ands retaurants must have a designated smoking area, with at least 50% of the premesis non-smoking

the day the law came in, loads of no-smoking signs went up, but no-one has ever paid any attention to it

a bit like traffic violations

[Raj]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4719654.stm

Smoke ban 'threatens environment'

:weee::weee::weee::weee::weee:

[Signal Jammer]

Interesting read -

'gas emissions are up by 380,000 tonnes a year due to patio heaters.'

and the smokers' campaign group Forest said 'the damage to the environment from patio heaters was "minuscule" in terms of the overall effect.'

Bit like people who dont recycle!

When I smoked rollies I didnt have a problem smoking outside in all weathers.

[Raj]

i am a shameless anti smoker [in my house] and always boot smokers out for their ciggies no matter how inclement the weather - i sure as sh*t would not provide a patio heater for them - if they need to smoke that badly they bring their coats round too

i dont let people smoke in my house because i dont smoke myself and i cant stand the smell of stale ciggarettes in my house - its pain in the rear end to air out of the rooms and makes me retch to boot [and i am also an asthmatic :hopeless:]

i am blown away by the fact that anyone would provide patio heaters - what a spectacular waste of money that is :you_crazy:you_crazy:you_crazy

[doolittle]

i am a shameless anti smoker [in my house] and always boot smokers out for their ciggies no matter how inclement the weather - i sure as sh*t would not provide a patio heater for them - if they need to smoke that badly they bring their coats round too

i dont let people smoke in my house because i dont smoke myself and i cant stand the smell of stale ciggarettes in my house - its pain in the rear end to air out of the rooms and makes me retch to boot [and i am also an asthmatic :hopeless:]

i am blown away by the fact that anyone would provide patio heaters - what a spectacular waste of money that is :you_crazy:you_crazy:you_crazy


keeps you warm though

[globalloon]

at my gaf it's a case of get in the shed if it's raining

good thing about my shed is that is has a barrel of home brew cider in it

[Raj]

keeps you warm though

:laugh_at::laugh_at:

yeah mate but if you want to be warm while you smoke at mine - bring it with you :wink: [and hope we dont have our usual howling gale too :groucho::groucho::groucho:]

[General Lighting]

when I lived in Reading the purple turtle pub had patio heaters anyway and there is no smoking ban there

they are used anyway to heat up outdoor areas so they can be used in colder seasons - to expand the available space in a pub (and therefore the amount of punters and revenue); OK they are not good for the environment but the pubs wouldn't spend the money if there wasn't a return..

[freespirited]

[quote=General Lighting]when I lived in Reading the purple turtle pub had patio heaters anyway and there is no smoking ban there
quote]

i practically live in reading go to the turtle evry week and they still have patio heaters and no ban!
and now its open till 4 am in the morning! crazy

can see why they have heaters though cos in the winter its bloody freezing!

[boothy]

My two points on the issue:

1. What are they going to do about indoor gigs? Inside a venue for around 4 hours, sometimes more if you want to get near the front - how are they going to enforce no smoking? Normally there is a very strict "once in, you are in. no leaving and then returning" policy. Having said that, I went to see Primal Scream in November at the Manchester Apollo, and despite numerous signs all around advertising the fact that it was a no smoking venue; just about half the crowd ignored the rule. The venue staff didn't make any attempt to enforce it.

2. Is this new smoking ban going to effect football stands? If they are included in the ban... well, I can't see it happening. I support Grimsby Town, and there is a no-smoking family stand which is an atmosphere suitable for both home and away supporters (with some exceptions). However the Pontoon Stand, with the die-hard supporters in... well, a large percentage of regulars there smoke. There is no way the stewards will be able to prevent hundreds of smokers lighting up.

It really is stupid. Better ventilation is what was needed, extracting the smoke, designated smoking areas - not an all-round ban on smoking in public places. Personally I smoke; but even my most anti-smoking mates (the ones who are always on my back about it) disagree with this ban.

[General Lighting]

lots of UK venues already have had extensive segregated areas and extra ventilation since the mid 90s it seems - When me and my mates were partying squatted pubs I regularly used to encounter various forms of smoke extractors whilst doing the "site survey" :laugh_at:The equipment was clearly cheap enough for the breweries to abandon rather than recover it when the venues closed...

(I used to get them powered up when fixing the electrics - so we had squat parties with smoke extraction - can't complain we weren't thinking about health and safety... :laugh_at:

I have a nasty feeling that the authorities will make extensive use of people grassing up venues that don't comply - I would bet that some managers/promoters will visit their commercial rivals venues and grass them up if they are flouting the ban just as a way of making life hard for a competitor...

Also if people start getting angry when the ban is enforced and kicking off at door staff or others in the street CCTV ops will see this and get the venues put on closure as "flashpoints for violence" ....

TBH I don't think the smoking ban is more about social control than protecting health....

Its being done (across the EU, not just Britain it seems) as a nasty wider trend of "lifestyle policing" which is being used on a number of levels to remove the parts of the "nighttime economy" that Middle England/Middle Europe doesn't agree with.

[shortylila]

Right as a smoker the ban is a good thing and a bad thing... Explaination below.......................

Good ...

You dont go out and find burn marks all over your new clothes... or body

You dont come back stinking of fags ( I have to admit hate the smell of stale smoke)

Dont dance like being given an electric shock all the time by dodging fags all night

Dont have to use inhalers all the time being asthmatic

Bad..

There are only 2 bad things and one is kinda good

In a well known well packed club you leave drinks on an unmaned table.... could be spiked anything and the club will take no responsibility .... NO they should on their premises as we have to go outside so should watch ALL drinks at ALL times as on the club grounds!!

Queues for fags ... makes you not want one!! ... good in my book as dont smoke nearly as much

*********************

Right been to loads of gigs after the ban started up here and smoking in gigs with closed roofs with thousands and thousands of people in it .... no chance at all of getting away with it!!!

All gigs have more staff roaming about with torches and one puff of smoke that is it out the door.... all toilets have security in them too... gigs that dont let you out the door after it started... it is tough .... yes i know but you just have to deal with it and run outside when the gig is over!!

We have smoking police and am not joking we do!!!...... T in the Park was after the ban and I saw hundreds of people being rushed out by security in the tents ... if you are sly u can get away with it ... but in my opinion after paying all the cash to see the bands ... Is it really worth just the one puff???????


BTW does include football stands but ones that dont have 50% ventilation .. dont think much they can do...thing is die hard fans will still go to the matches whatever...

Ban in England is going to be different to Scotland anyway but quite similar... just not as strict for the 1st ban.... ours was shocking straight out.... streets are a mess..

[Acidfairy]

Bad..

There are only 2 bad things and one is kinda good
I'd say there's another bad one.. u can smell everyone's farts.. all shapes sizes and colours imaginable.. not nice :crazy::crazy: not to mention some really exotic BO

[Techno4yourhead]

You can smell a proper fart whether there is smoke or not.

[General Lighting]

have ticket prices to enter events in Scotland increased since the ban?

I can't believe all these people looking out for smokers work for free, or carry out an extra security task without demanding some compensation...

Did any smaller venues close, or convert into restaurants, offices or other "less problematic" types of businesses?

[Raj]

Well Edinburgh has lost all but one of its venues and this is being killed by stages....its not a new problem though it started back in the 90s

Part of the problem was that all the clubs stopped evolving in terms of their playlists and their special features and thought they could cash in on their success up to that point while siphoning off funds and doing minimal[or no] work to keep the clubbing experience interesting.....

They were wrong and the crowds stopped going clubbing [some altogether] while many went to free parties [partly because they were free which is why getting donations to help run these parties up here is such a pain] and partly because the parties didnt stop at 3 am :groucho: and were always a fresh experience

Not allowing smoking in the venues is just another nail in the coffin of licensed clubbing - the numbers in clubs had already dropped off sharply before this happened

[General Lighting]

Well Edinburgh has lost all but one of its venues and this is being killed by stages....its not a new problem though it started back in the 90s

Part of the problem was that all the clubs stopped evolving in terms of their playlists and their special features and thought they could cash in on their success up to that point while siphoning off funds and doing minimal[or no] work to keep the clubbing experience interesting.....

They were wrong and the crowds stopped going clubbing [some altogether] while many went to free parties [partly because they were free which is why getting donations to help run these parties up here is such a pain] and partly because the parties didnt stop at 3 am :groucho: and were always a fresh experience


sounds just like what happend this side of the border in the 90s then...


Not allowing smoking in the venues is just another nail in the coffin of licensed clubbing - the numbers in clubs had already dropped off sharply before this happened
I reckon it will cause damage in England and the Govt will want it to do so (even Cameron's mob if they were to get in would be as bad if not worse)

There already appears to be (in England) a "balkanisation" of late night partying, with the licensed venues being pushed into "rougher" areas of London and inner cities, and even then subject to intense scrutiny from the authorities...

I've heard of venues getting licenses knocked back because the local rudes have decided to rob the punters' cars in the car park - and because the victims have reported the break ins to the old bill so they can claim on insurance, the cops record it as "crimes associated with the presence of the late night venue" :hopeless: ; also dance events are treated more harshly as "places where class A drugs may be present"

unlike squat parties (which are also under threat due to increased surveillance and security) these venues are managed by someone who has to make a commercial success of the business to keep their job and the building freehold owners (not necessarily the same people) demand a return on investment

increasing hassle with regulators/law enforcement due to the line of business they choose eats away at the time they have for other things and thus reduces profits....

I can see venue managers who are not dedicated to providing late night musical entertainment simply converting into posh restaurants / wine-bars with shorter hours and all sorts of other pretentious crap to try and minimise risk and maximise (or preserve) revenue..

or just selling up and building loads of offices etc....

[kaito]

Exactlly - and thats my only real problem with this law - the fact that its going to continue the trend that is currently happening (and has been slowly but surely since the town centre planning regulations of the '70's) for the death of small underground or alternative venues to be pushed out of the market in favour of homogenised pretentious bullshit bars, chain pubs, theme pubs and restaurants.

While I'm glad its gonna help me stop smoking as I only really do when i'm out, to me its not worth it, as its another step to a homogenised society of clones who all do the same safe shite that the government wants us to do - removal of dissent by social conditioning and removal of alternative choices anyone? Maybe going a little too far to say its all intended to move things that way but it does seem to be the trend we are heading towards.