Loud = busted or quiet = get away with it???

[.a.n.t.]

Been wondering this for a while, thought I'd post on here as it seems more sensible than SJ...

What sort of parties do you prefer; (assuming they all stop about 8-9am)

10k+ stacks pounding it out but having to drive for well over an hour to reach the 'ideal' venue and it continuing into the morning.

A much quieter event, still noisy but nowhere near 10k, maybe 2 or something, that is nice and local, within 10-20 minutes of where you live that continues into the morning.

or;

a moderate sized stack 4-10k locally but running the risk of being shut down at anytime due to noise complaints. Might get away with it, might not...


This is in the fair county of Surrey btw where there are a few nice (unused ;)) venues ideal for the smaller stack...


(Decor and lights are the same throughout)

[General Lighting]

definitely the smaller, more local ones, with rigs arranged in such a way that they do not annoy loads of locals (they need not be that small, its a matter of choosing the venue well).

I've been to all sorts of outdoor raves over a span of 16 years now, and as fun as big "teks" or large multiriggers are I've found that because of the sheer noise level [as each crew tries to sound the best] they often hot up the venue so it can never be used again, are sadly sometimes blighted by various rivalries which often erupt into actual fights. The larger events also seem to attract predators who merely arrive to bully people, steal cars or other items or rag already stolen vehicles.

Everyones safe when they are peaking on their drugs, but particularly towards the end of events which span several days or last hours into a hot summer sunday afternoon things can happen like "lord of the flies" but accompanied by a better soundtrack.

Its called "group dynamics" and can be witnessed in both human and non-human species - they start competing with each other in various ways for territory, potential partners etc. All the drugs in the world cannot completely override the negaive aspects of our own personalities...

OTOH when you've got a more local crowd they tend to know each other and therefore behave a bit better.

last weekend I went to a good one in a fairly "popular" venue for my new area but only two bobbies turned up and left (mind you they had brought out a CCTV car so they were clearly logging vehicle details etc). however the party was left alone and carried on until Sunday afternoon.. However it was impossible to hear outside the area (it took us a while to find it); no locals could have had a right to complain as they can't have heard it!

[Raj]

:crazy_fremy personal preference is for a smaller rig so you are less likely to be busted [having said that our is a hand built fully active rig which has on occasion been known to drown out 20k passive ones]:crazy_fre
its also easier to move:crazy_fre

small local parties where you know the folk are nicer too; less nerve wracking WRT bad behaviour and possible fights...

:idea:of course the other solution is not to turn your rig volume all the way up; we achieve this by using a mixing desk to control the overall level being put out [ djs into mixer, mixer into mixing desk, mixing desk to crossovers, crossovers to amps] and tune the rig using the desk for that lush sound i demand from my rig. :crazy_fre clarity of sound is king to me :crazy_fre
It also means i have lots of headroom to use for the sound volume so i dont get that horrible distortion you can get when your kit is under powered and you are trying to squeeze more out of it:toxic: i also throw off red line monkeys after the first warning ie if they do it again they are banned for ever from playing on my rig:toxic: [there is always another dj out there..] [this just creates distortion which annoys people if left unchecked and it fools people into thinking its louder while just wrecking their hearing]

[i tend not turn up the rig all the way very often as i cant stand within 20 feet of my bass bins at maximum volume without it being physically painful:crazy_fre ]

hope that helps:crazy_fre:crazy_fre:crazy_fre

[globalloon]

loud and start a riot

:toxic:

[General Lighting]

although diverging from the subject of sound volumes and noise I think its worth bringing up this point...

many people make the mistake of thinking that the only way whereby the wider effect of raves comes to notice of the cops is either because of moaning locals/farmers or police surveillance of websites and potential venues.

Whilst this is doubtless the main reason why cops become involved, another often denied/forgotten reason is that there is an amount of car crime and other crimes associated with the larger raves and the people who attend them.

every large rave seems to attract toerags who attend the rave in one stolen vehicle which they then destroy on site or abandon; and presumably steal another one to get back home in (sadly often other ravers vehicles are targeted for this purpose).

The cops see the abandoned cars and take details of these (even if the car is burned out they can often still work out what model it was and will speculate on how it came to be there......) ; also for those unlucky enough to lose their vehicles at a rave they usually have to make a police report to get their insurance company to deal with the incident!

So the cops end up logging what must be a significant number of stolen vehicles associated with unlicensed raves (and insurance premiums of younger drivers are pushed up).

there is also a bad trend of people vandalising the surrounding areas whilst "exploring"; breaking into adjacent units, trampling fields, even trashing agricultural machinery..

It may not seem like "major crime" like terrorism etc but it still pushes up the crime figures for the area in which the rave has happened and gives cops/locals more ammunition to claim that these events must be stopped.

[Meltown]

What sort of parties do you prefer; (assuming they all stop about 8-9am)


U Wanna go till at least midday, 6pm is my perfered finishing time

In answer to question

All my local raves are generaly 2-4k but within walkin distance (although a long walk),

suppose norfolk raves are local to they usually have a bigger stack gettin 2wards 10k (usually not well set up so its only kickin half of what it could with decent amps and so on)
they hardly ever get shut down although pigs usually turn up they jus leave em to it (usually because of the huge number of inbreds that turn up)

I also go to quite a lot of squat parties in london, guess rigs can be anything from 2-25K+ with multipul rigs, depending who where & legality ect
i prefer these to teks an stuff, smaller parties with better music
we always go for a random walk around london when the suns cumin up as well - nuttin like sittin opposite the melenium dome havin a spliff at 6am

I do love big raves but dnt always enjoy them as much as my locals, at the smaller raves everyone knows me and i know everyone there, which makes it feel like a really close community

I usally have the best time at propper heavy squat partys
di*j**ct probs the best ive been to
kss&hub link ups are always heavy too - annoyed cant make the last one b4 summer 2moz
Its not like ravin in the country side, feels like you sum where in the propperly underground uk rave scene, there are shit loads of crack feind at london parties tho - the smell can be quite off puttin

[.a.n.t.]

U Wanna go till at least midday, 6pm is my perfered finishing time


That's why I added the finishing time in there as it's obviously better to drive for an hour to attend a party that carries on until the evening so you can spend the whole day there.

Round my way we used to have a kind of agreement with the police that we'd be cleared up and offiste by about 9-10am. That way we're out of sight of the majority of dog walkers in the area who would otherwise phone the police to say why aren't you doing anything about it.

It's all been fucked up now by various acts of vandalism by a minority at some parties so their once quite relaxed attitude has harshened...


Even if the smaller quieter parties get away with it all night, everywhere that is green and pleasant here in Surrey is invaded by dog walkers at 8am sharp every weekend. They then phone the police and they arrive at 8.30-9 Tried and tested that is!
We try to pack up about 7ish so we're offsite and no-one even knows. Means we can rinse venues without worry (though we do rotate, not same one every time!)

Depends though on the party really. If it's going off at 8am then I don't think we'd turn off until forced. Gotta cater to the crowd!!

[raverbaby]

Guess i was the only one who voted loud an local but its is good to have a big noisy one on your doorstep:bigsmile:

[N.L.O.T.F]

loud and start a riot

:toxic:

hell yeah

[General Lighting]

Guess i was the only one who voted loud an local but its is good to have a big noisy one on your doorstep:bigsmile:

it can be done (although harder out in the open)

30K in a warehouse earlier this year and the cops just let everyone get on with it (not too far away from where you live either)

[raverbaby]

it can be done (although harder out in the open)

30K in a warehouse earlier this year and the cops just let everyone get on with it (not too far away from where you live either)

Really! Closest one i have found was an outdoor one in lewknor on the oxford way thats about 3/4 miles up the road from me, but i still managed to get lost on the walk home. There was also one in stokenchurch last weekend but didnt make it.

Where abouts was this warehouse one then?

[atm23]

Its a tricky one and depends on location, crew and crowd.

I havent attended a free party for a couple of years now, I must have attended almost every party Exodus put on 92-2000 as well as numerous others over that period and beyond, mostly smaller ones.

My views are probably a little bias, in that I live arounfd Luton and knew lots of people that went to those parties, and just loved the whole scene at the time good and bad.

I agree with GL though any party that goes on to long risks turning nasty, Exodus would go on well into Sunday but usually the crowd would thin out to a "hardcore" of looneies that stuck togethre and knew the score, most times any trouble was quickly stamped out.

I have never really liked events that go on for days, I usually choose a day and go to them then go home, I just get to mangled as do lots of other people and it gernally get wierd in a nasty kinda way.

I havent answered the question at all and have just rambled on ..but there u go !!

[globalloon]

i've just watched Bunsen's post with the video of the Beanfield (I was in one of those buses, about knee high to a pixie)

I think this country is well overdue a revolution

but there doesn't seem to be any central focus (poll tax was a close one), so in the absense of a rallying call...

i think we should just rise up and fight, right now. it's gone too fucing far. we should take every opportunity to not be pragmatic or cooperative. we, you or I should start a fight with the law today

i think the next big social movement will be against the police state we are living under

and i think it should start this summer

:toxic:

[atm23]

i've just watched Bunsen's post with the video of the Beanfield (I was in one of those buses, about knee high to a pixie)

I think this country is well overdue a revolution

but there doesn't seem to be any central focus (poll tax was a close one), so in the absense of a rallying call...

i think we should just rise up and fight, right now. it's gone too fucing far. we should take every opportunity to not be pragmatic or cooperative. we, you or I should start a fight with the law today

i think the next big social movement will be against the police state we are living under

and i think it should start this summer

:toxic:


Forward The Revolution ;-)

[globalloon]

Forward The Revolution ;-)

i spent 9 years of my adult life homeless, propertyless, fluid

i've just spent another 3 and a half years working in a sector that is supposed to be independant of government, for the people. it turns out that that same mentality will infltrate and ruin even the most trust / etical based places

so fuck it

let's just just smash the place up

and will the last person to leave please turn out the light?

[General Lighting]

i think the next big social movement will be against the police state we are living under

and i think it should start this summer

:toxic:
its already happening - but the problem TBH is that in Britain we fight amongst ourselves and do the cops work for them

look at "Londonistan" for instance - its not as if there isn't anger on the streets, there is bare ruckus and brawls with knives and even guns every weekend.

but its young working class kids killing one another over fuck all.

It is getting worse because I've been reading local media and checking out crime reports for 10 years now; I know all the spin/tricks that some local papers use to make you think there is more crime but even without this the actual amount of incidents does seem to be increasing..

blair is clearly scared of the youth, not only are young Asian kids being fired upon by cops because of hearsay, young white lads are being hauled off planes and out of pubs right now because they are just talking about having a fight over football (they haven't even been proven to be involved in hooliganism). Black people have been closely watched and controlled since they came here and started asserting themselves. Operation Trident started in 1987 following problems at the Notting Hill Carnival. - something which isn't mentioned at all by the cops or media

Even here in "Sleepy suffolk" you can sense the anger amongst some of the kids of the streets as the lockdowns start (a lot of things seem to "randomly catch on fire" in certain estates)

I think the rebellion is already happening but it is not a good one, it is a wrongly directed surge of hate and anger which is claiming a lot of innocent casualties..

more recently there was a rallying call on the rave scene - Exodus nearly achieved the combination of party lifestyles with a more equitable community and it inspired a lot of others (atm23 should know this)

but is anyone here actually prepared to give what Exodus did another try? (NB: its not as simple as cooking up ketamine!)

[Tek Offensive]

30K in a warehouse earlier this year and the cops just let everyone get on with it (not too far away from where you live either)

missed that one :( saw some photos tho, what a rig! apparently rather than try to bust the party they busted as many ppl as possible for other offenses. some one from my village lost his license cos of that

[atm23]

"more recently there was a rallying call on the rave scene - Exodus nearly achieved the combination of party lifestyles with a more equitable community and it inspired a lot of others (atm23 should know this)

but is anyone here actually prepared to give what Exodus did another try? (NB: its not as simple as cooking up ketamine!)"

Exodus took up the struggle, not just with the state / babylon but with our own human weaknesses. I was never "crew" or "collective" and never had any desire or need to be.
In the end they "all floated down stream on a sinking eutopia" I'm not sure their style of communal living and political / religious beliefs was ever truley sustainable but at least they gave it a go.
If they had been left alone by OB etc who knows what they might have achieved but IMO much of the downfall wa due to internal polytricks and little else.
All of that said I never signed up that it was "crew" or Collective" that drove that scene imo it was the 1000's that turned up that actually changed the world...or at least the face of youth culture. The lasting feelings of unity and collective conciousness are still a power to this day.
The revolution has to take place on mass in peoples conciousness, it wont come from from some centralised religoen or belief system.....or have a read to much Mckenna !

[General Lighting]

missed that one :( saw some photos tho, what a rig! apparently rather than try to bust the party they busted as many ppl as possible for other offenses. some one from my village lost his license cos of that
this is normal practice nowadays - most raves attract a lot of traffic cops. TVP has a particularly large number of traffic cops anyway because of the 3 motorways in the force area.

Exodus took up the struggle, not just with the state / babylon but with our own human weaknesses. I was never "crew" or "collective" and never had any desire or need to be.
In the end they "all floated down stream on a sinking eutopia" I'm not sure their style of communal living and political / religious beliefs was ever truley sustainable but at least they gave it a go.

I don't think "babylon" can be blamed for their downfall (by that stage they had taken them on and won a lot of the battles!) but their ethos was a bit flawed ; it was after all cherry-picked from hippy activism, rastafarianism and North/East London gang/street culture and IMO they had a few problems like misogyny and looking up to the "hard man/gangsta culture" (which affect lots of other crews as well!)

they did remarkably well to be fair though and actually influenced Government policy to be more tolerant of these sorts of "alternative ventures" (ministers do not suddenly u-turn and stop evictions at the last minute until they have discussed it with a few people).

Its a big shame it came to nothing as it would have otherwise influenced a lot of people throughout the East of England and beyond had things gone better...

That said I don't think raves alone are much of a "revolutionary force". They are energy and resource-intensive and can divert people from actually taking action to make their lifestyles better (if only because of the recovery time needed!).

[atm23]

I could make alsorts of statements about the reasons behind the downfall of the Exodus Collective, but it has all been said before...beware the enemy within

[globalloon]

That said I don't think raves alone are much of a "revolutionary force". They are energy and resource-intensive and can divert people from actually taking action to make their lifestyles better (if only because of the recovery time needed!).

i think if you're doing other positive stuff, a party can be a good place to plant seeds in the minds of people who know they don't agree with mainstream culture / politics etc, but are a bit lost as to what to do about it

[raverbaby]

missed that one :( saw some photos tho, what a rig! apparently rather than try to bust the party they busted as many ppl as possible for other offenses. some one from my village lost his license cos of that

Who was that?

[Dr Bunsen]

Small and intimate's definately the way...

[.a.n.t.]

Even those are getting screwed over now.... (gunna raise another post about this weekends shambles.......)

[arkadarka]

i would rather have a 10k soundsystem personally but if having
a small one ment going till 6oclock the next day then i would have that but when you get to a cirtan amount at the party small just isnt feasable:cool:

[stax]

yep pack away to rave another day

[Acidfairy]

Too big a rig for the area has been part of the problem with some of the parties up here gettin busted.. the one i was at the other week where i had the boys in blue quizzin me was a link up that made a total of 15k.. no wonder we had noise complaints from 5 miles away wi ma screamin 303 noises.. :crazy:

[miss bassets]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 303 :bounce_g: :bounce_fl :bounce_g:

[Acidfairy]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 303 :bounce_g: :bounce_fl :bounce_g:

haha yup i love it too.. prob is the polis don't seem to like it much i think they can handle kick drums but when combined with the warped noises of the 303 they don't know what to do... :crazy_diz

[miss bassets]

haha yup i love it too.. prob is the polis don't seem to like it much i think they can handle kick drums but when combined with the warped noises of the 303 they don't know what to do... :crazy_diz

hehe yer but to b honest wen i hear sum of that 303 even i dunno wot 2 do!! lol i find wavin ur arms like a loony helps maybe i shud let the polis in on that 1 ;)

[Acidfairy]

Hahaha.. yeah ma mate says something like that as well that even he finds that the 303 noises do strange things to him so imagine how poor people at home hearing it feel...it must be really wierd not knowing what the noise is..

[General Lighting]

Hahaha.. yeah ma mate says something like that as well that even he finds that the 303 noises do strange things to him so imagine how poor people at home hearing it feel...it must be really wierd not knowing what the noise is..

you could always say its a new weapon to keep midgies away ;)

[Acidfairy]

you could always say its a new weapon to keep midgies away ;)

:laugh_at::laugh_at::laugh_at: i like that one...

[Nick The Greek]

I think a big rig is quality:devil_wag, but i would take it further away than 1 mile from town. Best out in the sticks miles from anywhere. Yea you might not get as many people, but you are sure to pull all the like minded people. And that way sometimes you dont even have a visit.

The biggest problem is net advertising and infolines, that just gives a tip off. Before ya know it choppers in sky and bingo your pinged! Whatever happened to the old school way of doing things?

Dont get me wrong i have made the mistake of net advertising and infolines. But this year has been a turning point for me, leasons have been learned.

Had two shutdowns, the first shutdown the police arrived in force with riot gear, attack dogs the lot. That was a very close shave, lucky enough i was able to negotiate with the police. Second time i just shut down (cheif inspector showed up) wasn't to bothered cause we had 20 or so hours of tuneage:wink:

[Acidfairy]

The biggest problem is net advertising and infolines, that just gives a tip off. Before ya know it choppers in sky and bingo your pinged! Whatever happened to the old school way of doing things?

Dont get me wrong i have made the mistake of net advertising and infolines. But this year has been a turning point for me, leasons have been learned.



Well said mate.. dejvu likes weren't we discussing this earlier lol :groucho::groucho:

[Nick The Greek]

lol yea i know, been on my mind for a while. thats why i been changing the way DM opperate:wink:

[Raj]

sensible plan i thinks:groucho:

[miss bassets]

i prefer parties that r a bit of a mish to get to.....less chance of annoyin the locals n gettin unwanted attention like nick the greek sed its mostly the genuine party heads that are prepared to go the extra mile, i find with the local parties i go 2 u always get the beer boys turnin up wit thier attitudes afta the pubs close

[missMushed]

i prefer parties that have a deacent soundsystem, not always huge wall of speakers as they dont always sound that good. Fair if they have managed to get it right, but i often find this isnt the case and big massive walls of speakers can sound like loud wet farts! Some ofthe best parties i have been to have been smaller scale ones just a small stack, but pounding sounds! but then some of the best have been bigger ones (such as the planet yes multirigs a few yrs ago!) I like a party to be in a good location, with places to explore, and a good place for a sunrise spliff! but then ive had good times at warehouse parties. I think the main thing to make a party great is to have all my friends there!! (or to be in the mood to make new ones!)

[noname]

Not really a question of Loud V Quiet IMO (although quiet always helps get away with it wrt being noised up by OB etc)

Good attitude from all involved is paramount, and good atmosphere (main job of the DJ really) are the golden ingredients. Decent chems are a given in that IMO (sorry, but it's the truth. Rave music may not be about the drugs, but they are a large part - it may be possible to have a good rave with no drugs, but I've never been to one. I've seen good drugs turn a crap party into a stomper too many times to mention though...:weee:) That's people for you...

Back to topic though - I'll forgoe the rant about long throw subs on a rig with no nearfields (done that at least once somewhere). Suffice to say I think they're silly...You can be loud without being audible 6 miles away...:you_crazy:you_crazy:you_crazy

Smaller parties are good, cos numbers aren't guaranteed. Granted, a 10000 person 30 rig rave is a ball, but a rave in a field that size with 100 people less so. Small parties are easier to get the atmosphere going in. If 10000 turn up, with another 29 rigs you can always move somewhere bigger...raaaraaaraaa

[stax]

we has a wee gathering sat/sun , bout 50 -100 at peak, 2 bobbys came down(1male 1female) had a chat, complimented us on location(in a dip) and asked how many more peeps we were expecting to which we replied that is it. they were met with NO hostility. they asked us to clear up to which we replied we ALWAYS do. we uped our course a bit by saying about violence in city etc and that theres hardley any trouble at partys which they seemed to take in. they even had a little bop about infront of the stack as they left- if only all coppers were like that

raaa

[Signal Jammer]

Nicely!

We have had several like this as am sure many more peeps have to.

You just wouldnt get this response from a multirig event and I think most of my memorable times have always been at smaller intimate locations. Although I did go to Monegros this year and that was 50k of peeps which was immense and I loved every minute of it. The difference is that its a paid for event and as such well organised.

It is always good to read that there are still PC's working with the community, what a nicer place it could be if as you say they were all like this.

Having the right rig with quality of sound is paramount in our book, and often that is lost with a mulitrig/big rig event......its all about the music......

[norfolk_junglist]

loud in middle of nowhere avin it!! raaa raaa

[the rev]

i've just watched Bunsen's post with the video of the Beanfield (I was in one of those buses, about knee high to a pixie)

I think this country is well overdue a revolution

but there doesn't seem to be any central focus (poll tax was a close one), so in the absense of a rallying call...

i think we should just rise up and fight, right now. it's gone too fucing far. we should take every opportunity to not be pragmatic or cooperative. we, you or I should start a fight with the law today

i think the next big social movement will be against the police state we are living under

and i think it should start this summer

:toxic:

Amen to that, I've been sharpening my pitchfork for months, I'm ready. As to the question loud or quiet, imo the louder the better, i love it when the police turn up but can't stop us. All they can do is try to look hard in their silly riot gear and walk around trying to gather evidence with their fucking cameras. People used to fight for what they believed in but now it seems we are prepared to roll over onto our interest free three piece suites and be pacified by television and the promise of two weeks paid holiday a year.

Death to consumerism, death to ignorance, death to opression.

Live to party raaa raaa raaa raaa raaa raaa raaa raaa raaa raaa raaa

[boothy]

it depends. if i help fund/organise it, i'd rather not have my rigs taken (hypothetically, i dont have a rig yet!), even if the police don't stop it they'd probably confiscate the rig vans at the end along with some pretty expensive equipment.

loud with bare ravers 'avin it when the police can't do anything does make a "resistance" sorta point... buuuuut if the rigs get taken it's a bit shit, just gotta help the rig vans get out unnoticed!

queit small ones are good cos everyone knows each other. they aren't as hectic or messy as huge ones but good laugh and guarenteed no OB and no scally cunts!

[General Lighting]

parties that don't get busted don't need to be tiny, its about well chosen locations and sensible attitudes- you can put 500-1000 people into the right area and have a party go relatively unnoticed!

[TEK Tonic]

Location, location, location!

[boothy]

parties that don't get busted don't need to be tiny, its about well chosen locations and sensible attitudes- you can put 500-1000 people into the right area and have a party go relatively unnoticed!
yeah we're runnin a small party this summer, then next year hopefully we'll have permanent rig and get a crew together, start developin the scene up 'ere....

gonna be postin loads askin advice on here in a short while methinks :groucho:

[tarifa]

I think this country is well overdue a revolution

i think the next big social movement will be against the police state we are living under

and i think it should start this summer

:toxic:

Yeah? Great. i'm totally with you but cynical old bat that i am its NEVER gonna happen!

People have never been so apathetic! Especially the young, sorry guys but people on here arn't the usual suspects.

No-one believes they have the power anymore. The seeds of doubt have rotted the asylum.

There are armchair revolutionaries everywhere you look but critical mass is an unachievable goal.
UNLESS television disappeared overnight, THEN we'd see some action :bounce_fl

[General Lighting]

UNLESS television disappeared overnight, THEN we'd see some action :bounce_fl

not everyone watches it though..

HTV makes me wanna smoke crack
he even sprayed it on the side wall of their studio :laugh_at:

I worked in the TV industry for a few years of my life, now I hardly even watch TV (ironically my viewing hours dropped the more I got to learn about how the industry worked :laugh_at:

[boothy]

People have never been so apathetic! Especially the young, sorry guys but people on here arn't the usual suspects.


cynical was an understatement :weee:

i think there may be some who would suprise you there. certainly "apathy" has existed but recently there has been a lot more people of my generation actually giving a shit imho...

[Space Master]

Yeah? Great. i'm totally with you but cynical old bat that i am its NEVER gonna happen!

People have never been so apathetic! Especially the young, sorry guys but people on here arn't the usual suspects.

No-one believes they have the power anymore. The seeds of doubt have rotted the asylum.

There are armchair revolutionaries everywhere you look but critical mass is an unachievable goal.
UNLESS television disappeared overnight, THEN we'd see some action :bounce_fl

Yeh, ppl just seem content with copying and pasting right-wing news stories and "getting high" just means seeing yourself as higher than the latest group of ppl getting victimised. Judging by some postings, even chavs are doing DMT and Ket now, lmao, then hissing about <<insert group to be hated>> on their comedowns. Even <<insert group being hated>> are doing it.

It's ok to be a Nazi these days. The politically correct thing is to say "forget political correctness, it's time we wiped out <<insert group being hated>>".

I can't wait till the National Socialist (Nazi, New Labour) party just effs off. Lib Dems would be a welcome change (bet they would mess up too, but not as badly). UP THE LIB DEMS! I reckon things will be better then. I really do.

[General Lighting]

IMO it isn't younger peoples fault - they cannot be blamed for caving in to the immense pressures of society and the market if they do not have supportive older people (not just their parents) willing to back them up

I know too many people of my age who have not only given up raving but support greater social controls on ravers and drug users and say "we had our fun but, its got out of hand" :you_crazy (I believe the opposite, I think todays youth are more sensible and responsible than I was back then!)

And in a capitalist world, market forces hit harder than even police forces or armed forces - they mean people have to constantly fight for jobs and there is way more competition today from other countries due to the effects of globalisation - and youths are forced to grow up faster and faster these days. There is a great pressure to conform, even in friendships and relationships and those who don't conform can find themselves quite lonely sometimes; this is obviously hard on anybody, young or old and a lot just cave in. This IMO is the cause of the apathy you are seeing.

And to be fair growing up in the late 80s/early 90s (when we were young) was fairly cushty - despite thatcho, major and early Blair we actually had a fairly good time; jobs were easy to get, raves were new so the govt hadn't quite sussed out how to control them, drugs were getting cheaper and cheaper (to the point many of us fucked up on them)

I also feel that whilst technology has advanced a lot, socially Britain has gone back at least 20 years in the wake of the fallout from the dot com crash, 9/11 and our Government's misguided foreign policies adversely affecting community and race relations in this country.

Youths of boothys age are essentially back where I was in 1987 - but with greater pressures in their lives (if I could go back to my teenage days but with todays lifestyles I wouldn't want to, don't think I could cope! I'd end up in jail or dead.)

I expect a lot of them are angry and looking for ways to change things. Some turn to drugs, gangs and crime, but others look to more positive ideals and this is what sites like this and communities associated with raves should IMO be doing.

[tarifa]

DDP - re political correctness - its a mad animal that's got out of control i know but i'm in agreement with you about the backlash, sucks.

Boothy - I'm NOT talking about you guys, I do know lots of people who give a fuck its just they're in such a minority. But compared to the 60s, 70s, 80s an early 90s things have been awful quiet recently

GL - yes i understand about the pressures of life, conformity, responsibility etc. But good points about how diff it is for 18 year olds now compared to wen we were 18.

I grew up in Liverpool in the 80s - a HARD place to be, no jobs, no nothing, total shite, it wasn't the same as it was down south by any stretch BUT we did party our arses off and i guess things were a hell of a lot easier re pre CJB etc.

Why i was ranting - I grew up militant, protesting, marching, hunt-sabbing etc I believe every single person has power (Ghandi -hero). Even though we may have done it wrong sometimes (there was a violent side I now regret) at least we believed we could do something.

Now I am in a v responsible job in a totally straight environment. I LOVE my job, its hard but fantastic BUT the people in it have NO fight! They get shat on from a great height, they moan but they don't do a goddam thing to help themselves. The job we're in does make it hard to protest but there are ALWAYS things that can be done! There's no self belief, no willingness to try, just apathy ARRRGGGHHHH ! ! !

I had yet another chat other day - I was saying we should try, they said it wont work so whats the point. They dont even know why standing up makes a difference even if you don't win ! ! ! Sorry but am so angry bout the whole thing.

My earlier life was in the militant minority. My present career is in the scared, powerless, lazy majority, i'm still not used to it and i DONT have to like it! And they ARE the majority of the population.

An it makes me so sad an angry i feel sick, an want to bang my head against a wall (end of rant :wink:)

[Space Master]

Hi, l'm glad someone agrees, and just to clarify... by Nazi l don't necessarily mean White Supremacists or Third Reich, l mean the wider picture, fascism/totalitarianism etc, and like l implied, ppl acting against it are often just as bad, no matter what background they are from.

Anyway, l voted for the middle option - the party that doesn't annoy the majority of ppl in the surrounding area.

I once said it should be ok if you get a license. I think what l meant was, licenses should be free and easily obtainable, so easy that you won't even need them unless there is a complaint, and then if the cops are called, they can decide on the spot by using noise meters and all that i.e. there's no personal judgement involved, it's just down to meter readings, and there could be 2 types of limit, one for a residential area, one for a field, and maybe a 3rd for semi-residential. I reckon those noise limits already exist, so l think this all boils down to getting noise limits changed, because ppl having fun can be noisy sometimes and parties don't happen all the time, so maybe the noise limits can be increased at least for semi-residential and rural settings.

Sod fire regulations - a house party is held in a house, a person's house is their castle. A derelict warehouse should be knocked down right away, and if it isn't then it's got to be taken to mean it's ok to do whatever. A normal warehouse in use (not derelict) will already be covered by whatever regulations there are.

[Space Master]

because ppl having fun can be noisy sometimes and parties don't happen all the time, so maybe the noise limits can be increased at least for semi-residential and rural settings.

^^^ I reckon that's what it all boils down to, recognising that ppl want to party and that having a monumentally good time isn't an everyday thing, so it's not the same as industrial noise limits.

[xstephyx]

I think id rather have the 10k oneeee! :weee: , ..if ya gonna partyyyy mights aswell make it worth the whileeee ;)

[Space Master]

I think id rather have the 10k oneeee! :weee: , ..if ya gonna partyyyy mights aswell make it worth the whileeee ;)

Yeah but only if it's Slayer or Jason Donovan :yakk: Or the Original Nuttah tune raaa .

[xstephyx]

Trueeeee :weee: :angel:

[boothy]

I expect a lot of them are angry and looking for ways to change things. Some turn to drugs, gangs and crime
far, far too many unfortunately... the pressure is really up there with it for some people, and i know many kids my age who are selling crack for their so-called older "friends" ffs...

all i meant tarifa was kinda what GL was sayin... there is a lotta anger and will to resist, but (and i can only speak for myself and those i know really, i'm just making presumptions) the sort of... clampdown, almost on "freethinking" is pretty harsh sometimes.

it's like you're forced through a machine to make you the ideal citizen who is happy with his average job and good grades and trivial opinion or something... and for many who don't accept this, the escape routes (drugs, crime, violence, suicide) mentioned are appealing. been there, done that, at 15, kicked outta school, bored as fuck and felt a bit meaningless, i coulda turned that way (mostly to drugs + crime), i even started too. some of my mates are much further down that path :hopeless:

[boothy]

what would be really helpful is if young people specially teenagers were helped out by older ravers or older free-thinkin people in general.

i know its hard with police clampdowns n all, but ideas spread quick in the minds of teenagers :groucho:

get a young geezer and his mates into the scene and to a few good parties, then they are hooked... and the parties will kick off bigstyle if my sorta generation gets the idea that this movement is worth it and people do start organisin raves n stuff, and we carry the torch almost...

it happens a lot already... i mean, some of me mates, 15-16, ran a party this last weekend... it weren't to the same sorta scale as most, but it had the free-party ethos, it wasn't just a normal "teen" party...

all of a sudden theres half the fuckin school/college/young people wantin to do it... and lookin for organisers. get this spreadin and it's 1989 revisited innit?