party scene's "political" focus?

[General Lighting]

anyone else who'se been raving for a bit think its changed a lot from the mid 90s, and (perhaps with newer crews) moved from a "hippy/working with the land/ reuse and recycling" type ethos to a "jeremy clarkson with hardstyle" type of movement?

[liaphin]

hi

i dont know your scene over there really much. have been there for some parties, some really crap and scary...some decent ones as well, which surely has been the efford of the soundsystem. i have spend more than a year now on squatjuice and finally gave up cause the general mood of the young partypeople just doent cope with mine at all and i find it really unconstructive, desillusionative, sad, etc...yes..it makes me angry as well cause seriousy i dont see the point of middle class kids ( kids at least able to access interent all day long...) playing the generation x and let themselve float in the mood of no hope, no love, being cool blabla. unch of opportunists if you ask me, cause the one i spoke personaly to were almost all agreeing with me - but in the forum caling me hippie, which took me a while to understand thats a insult !!!

i dont want to blame the single kids/ persons/crews - it looks much more like a general problem of teh society over there ?!
this isnt at all judgemental - more i would lieke to read some posts and what people which actually join the scene say. as well i think it may be interesting for you to read how someone from outside see the things.

i can see a lot of comone things in the european party scene, in the difefernt countries...of course a lot controversialas as well. but NOWHERE else i found a scene so much rotten and sad as i found in the uk.

tell me what you think :smile:

[General Lighting]

hi


i dont want to blame the single kids/ persons/crews - it looks much more like a general problem of teh society over there ?!
this isnt at all judgemental - more i would lieke to read some posts and what people which actually join the scene say. as well i think it may be interesting for you to read how someone from outside see the things.

i can see a lot of comone things in the european party scene, in the difefernt countries...of course a lot controversialas as well. but NOWHERE else i found a scene so much rotten and sad as i found in the uk.

tell me what you think :smile:

I understand exactly what you mean - there are a few decent crews here but what I meant was all the positive activism bit has gone out the rave scene and now it is becoming like a cheapo commercial nightclub on someone elses property. I am in my early 30s and have been involved with raves since 1991..

A lot of problems are indeed due to wider society and class divisions, and a big stubborness and fighting spirit in the UK. Whilst the fighting spirit can be good as channelled positively it makes us do brave and daring things (such as getting in a disused warehouse), here in Britain we do not have a solid tradition of working together to achieve things and often our aggression is turned on ourselves (like the arguments you see on other boards, or the constant problem with fighting and gangs at raves).

I get the impression in France and Germany youth culture has more direction to it, and young people often go to a "summer camp" thing where they go out to the rural areas and organise stuff together, study nature etc, set up things in tents (obvious good skills for later life with teknivals!)

This we do not have in the UK. Often we have to teach the younger people many things about equipment etc which they learn quickly, but what they have not always learned is how to work together, or solve their differences without conflict which can make our rave situation look worse.

Some people also do not think of or even care about the effect a rave has on the rest of the area (traffic, rubbish) or worse still see it as an opportunity for crime and anti-social behaviour.

Here is an example ; in my area there is a nice bit of land called the Ridgeway which is public land because it is the oldest road in Britain.

You can get to it from many other normal roads, and it is wide enough to park vehicles on and there are adjoining fields. Obviously this is a good rave spot; and since 1991 there have been occasional parties there.

the area around the Ridgeway has a lot of kids who have time and money to put together rigs (there is a lot of nice rig kit in Britain as you may have seen when UK crews attend teknivals!)

But what happened increasingly is that due to internal disputes, some crews would not work with others or share party-spaces.

So you ended up with 5 or 6 small raves every weekend in some areas sometimes within just a few km of each other instead of 2 or 3 larger ones; and of course all the locals were angry as this way there was more noise and rubbish.

so now there was a backlash and cops are more aggressive about stopping these parties (before they let them happen) - a guy from one crew got an ASBO law used against him and I expect the whole area will be locked down this summer :(

but even without cops and locals there is now a problem with fighting/violence at raves, kids fight with each other and have big arguments with their relationship partners in the middle of raves (IMO this should be sorted out at home, not brought into public!) also girls get hassled by blokes. Every rave I have been to in the last few months (apart from a couple) I have seen arguments like this brewing up somewhere..

if raves carry on like this then the rest of society will think they are no better than commecial nightclubs which at least pay license fees to offset the damage they cause to people ,,,,,

we need to make them better somehow so they can survive...

[lordpeanan]

when i started going to partys i thought that this was the way forward people were trying to get together and be free. this by the way was not 1993 or 89 but 2000. i do belive that there is still this idea going on but in england it is hard to find. poeple put each other in to pigen holes like: "your a psy trancer you carn't like techno", "technos just for dirtry ket heads" or "techno, trance its all about the dnb"...

i find this all over the place when what people should be doing of saying is lets all pull together and drop all this bullshit. i think that some poeple have a political focus and others do it cause they wont to get "mash up" and "funk the pigs". me personly i party to have a good time and each time i see creative freedom which i belive should not be stoped. a party at the end of the day can not change the world to much but the people who party can if they get active. i dont know if this makes any sense. but hay its the most i've wrote on here.

[PaulM]

i dont know if this makes any sense. but hay its the most i've wrote on here.


I makes very good sense!

I have only been getting into free partys over the last 4or5 years and know exactly what u r on about. :bitter: :bitter:

[General Lighting]

I makes very good sense!

I have only been getting into free partys over the last 4or5 years and know exactly what u r on about. :bitter: :bitter:

the timescale lordpeanan and yourself mention seems spot on

IMO the golden era of raves was in fact 1997-2001 or so (just up to 9/11). it was not the early 1990s, raves then were commercialised (even free ones), it was a hierarchical scene with a lot of wanabe gangstas and hard men (there are actually less of these types around today, most are brown bread, in HMP or on the UKG scene now)

in '97 blair had just got in on the youth vote so couldn't enforce CJA or anti-drugs laws as much initially; also there was more money, jobs, optimism about due to dot-com boom, plus lots of spare buildings in downtown city areas no one cared about as everyone wanted prime offices...

cops virtually left crews alone to put on parties, squat buildings long term - we'd take a building, get 2 or more raves out of it but also use the top floors for living and arts projects...

we had a great time there but it turned to excesses; people overdid the drugs, we lost a few good people and there were also the lifestyle/gender divisions which slowly drove people apart (particularly without outside forces like families/jobs to stop people getting on each others nerves)

also stuff like smashing buildings started to happen

so by 2001 a lot of people were burnt out, then all the money disappeared when the dot-coms crashed and 9/11 happened so people became more desparate/angry/divided - and the world has got worse since then.

it can get better but we do need a more united community; at the moment it sometimes seems like ppl only come together because there is a common resource everyone wants - drugs, a building etc (and when this is gone they drift apart again) rather than because they believe in creative freedom for everyone or want to collaborate on anything...

[BioTech]

I would definately agree.

The type of people involved today (the majority anyway) are the exact people I used to love avoiding by attending free parties. No I'm finding people are a little more open minded and friendly in smaller local underground club nights etc.

Although I've been partying for a while it wasn't until about 96 that I started going to free parties. The vibe was completely different and there seemed to be a lot of older generation folks partying then because they enjoyed the freedom and expression of the parties and everyone spoke to everyone and felt completely safe. It gave people who felt out of place in the normal world a positive environment to make friends and feel welcomed. Life long friends where made etc. Like GL said the cops pretty much left us alone too and even enjoyed a chat and a cup of tea too.

Now it seems to be very closed off with rigs and crews forming in to tribes determined by music style and other things. A lot of people that attend them now seem a very different crowd to what I used to know. Not so friendly anymore.

To be honest. I'm losing the energy I used to have inside me for free parties. It's no different from your local rude boy infested nightclubs apart from people being on slightly more exotic drugs and stumbling around a bit more. The only thing they have over clubs at the moment is the music and the locations.

[Tek Offensive]

due to only bein 17, i havent been raving for very long and dont know what it was like pre-2003 ( fuck me 2006 already) . the parties of today are the only parties i know. for me crime and fighting is a part of free ravin that has always been there, especially in winter when the rigs are forced into warehouses. i wish could have been around during the better parties of 97-01. it sounds like parties back then where more chilled, without the yobs muggin ppl, where everyone cleared up afterwards, where bits of equipment weren't stolen and where ppl were much more social.
as someone said already, styles of music can now be a divide, rather than the thing everyone is there for. then again, this type of rave is the rave i know, i still love each one i go to (with exeptions) but i would have loved to see what your all talking about. hopefully its a phase and ravin will evolve into somethin better . untill then theres not much we can do but wait, and keep on ravin

[General Lighting]

there are still parties which are comparatively violence-free; outside London free partying as a whole is far less likely to result in personal danger than attending licensed venues - but we always need to be vigilant, and promote a culture of non-violence.

Otherwise there is a serious risk the problems which screwed up London's scene will manifest themselves in the wider SE - a gang/fighting culture was tolerated and accepted, now its impossible to have a party in London without violence including the use of weapons - to the point where some crews have been forced back into the licensed venues and other have been forced out of London.

It starts off with vandalism, then goes on to robberies in dark corners and eventually gangs trying to "take over". It has been a problem on the scene since the early days, even in licensed venues but until recently wasn't as prevalent at "free parties"

Another nasty thing is harrasment of girls - this didn't happen as much in the 1990s - now people regularly hassle girls and if they are with their boyfriends they threaten the boyfriends. People I know have stopped going raving because of stuff like this, after all its as bad as a normal townie venue...

Maybe its because there are actually more raves and crews about than in the 90s ppl perhaps take these events for granted - only a few years back a rave was such a special occasion that few people would dream of fighting at one!

I wasn't a goody two-shoes in the 90s - nor were most of my friends (many of whom are now in rehab, HMP or dead) and we did (particularly on comedowns) do a lot of things which were anti-social and criminal - but never at raves - there was a culture of respect at these events; you didn't cause trouble, girls/women were respected, stuff like DJ's record boxes and rig kit was also respected....

It is down to people who attend raves and make them happen to improve things - nowadays due to busts and surveillance partylines aren't given out as widely as they used to be and most scum types are too thick to use computers, so how are they finding out about these events?

Its highly unlikely "local chavs" are going to roam about an industrial unit often some distance away from a town or city just on the "off-chance" something may be happening...

The average rave crowd by and large is pretty decent though - so perhaps some of the people at raves just need to choose their "friends" a bit more carefully...

some lads look up to "wannabe gangstas" who "fight" their way through life (or more realistically intimidate people with weapons and numbers because they are cowards on their own) - they need to realise instead what pathetic individuals most of them are and leave them behind in the townie venues where they will either eliminate each other or end up in HMP...

[lordpeanan]

i find this really intressting. because of what i said eariler and what i have seen. we (me and mates) put on small parties up to 100 ish. and try to keep the vibe more relaxed. just mates and any music as long as the night flows. i find that the free vibe has gone in partys to a degree alot of partys you have to pay to get in. i personly don't realy charge for anything just give it all away so everyone has a good night. the only time i've done a donations hat i was to pissed and left it in some blokes van, it had about £30 init. but then that bloke had brought loads of people in the back of the van so i hope he had a good time and brought himself a beer afterwoods. but saying that were are always out of pocket by a big way afterwoods.

[binge]

Depends where you are. Most Norfolk parties have the same original vibe that you are talking about, and this is why they get so slated on the 'other' board.

Jealously is a nasty thing.

I also believe that rigs that only play one style of music all night are creating this atmosphere of elitism and exclusionism- You rarely get more than 2 hours of the same style of music at the better parties, which means that everyone can enjoy it, not just the dnb/tekno/psy (delete as appropriate) heads. They also include the 'older' ravers.

And, not meaning to bitch, but when the only view you get of parties is through these very one-sided, often petty boards, things may not be quite as they seem- actually getting out more than once or twice a year would show a lot of people that these ideals do exist in the 'scene', just not as prevailiant as they once were.

[General Lighting]

Depends where you are. Most Norfolk parties have the same original vibe that you are talking about, and this is why they get so slated on the 'other' board.

Jealously is a nasty thing.


yep - there unfortunately is an amazing amount of jealousy and negativity about these days. Much of is it not from "kids" but from older ex-ravers who have burnt out or those who have done too much, too fast, too young - and it is not confined only to the Internet, its a problem which affects wider society.

I think the East Anglia lot get unduly slated for the wrong things TBH - they are no worse than any other crews in semi-rural areas. When the Ridgeway was being rinsed for 3 day parties by multiple crews (not just Surge) week in week out or London parties went off in buildings next door to housing estates few people moaned then...

I've also seen people (not from Norfolk) even bragging about pissing off locals and causing environmental damage - and the problem with personal disputes being brought to raves and fights occuring happens everywhere and outside London is worse than problems with robberies/gangs...

I haven't been raving there so I don't know how true that "community" vibe is and how much it extends into life outside raving (if it does that would be excellent) but East Anglia crews (or anyone else) often seem to get slated just for being a bit optimistic and idealistic.

Whilst I may be one of the main people posting the "heavier" stuff on here and we can't do detailed free party reviews any more I still try and put up supportive messages about decent events - and there are still a lot of good events about these days.

Free parties are still better than any other urban music events - I was reading a thread on SJ recently where people went to a licensed club in London and had to duck due to shots being fired in the venue!

Forums for mnay licensed clubs have way more hate and negativity than any free party board and some events themselves are no longer safe...people get robbed even where there are security....

This desire to "make things better" or create a "better" atmosphere through partying does seems to be missing from some people nowadays - but without it urban music events simply become places where people are posing about how loud their rigs are / how much substances they can take / how hard they are - coupled with a culture of negativity and violence this creates actual dangers to people and then its hardly surprising then authorities/government want to clamp down..

[BioTech]

You rarely get more than 2 hours of the same style of music at the better parties, which means that everyone can enjoy it, not just the dnb/tekno/psy (delete as appropriate) heads. They also include the 'older' ravers.



Hey! :you_smart










:wink:

[BioTech]

And, not meaning to bitch, but when the only view you get of parties is through these very one-sided, often petty boards, things may not be quite as they seem- actually getting out more than once or twice a year would show a lot of people that these ideals do exist in the 'scene', just not as prevailiant as they once were.

I feel like you are maybe aiming that at me.

Your'e probably right though. I do still see it at parties though tbh. Competition and bitchyness all over the place.... maybe I'm one of those jaded ex ravers that GL talks about but it's not the same anymore from where I'm standing. Although, yeah, i do need to go to more parties rather than base opinions on comments made on internet boards, but it just doesn't have the same buzz anymore. So more often than not i give parties a miss. Maybe it's time to call it a day :(

[General Lighting]

I feel like you are maybe aiming that at me.

So more often than not i give parties a miss. Maybe it's time to call it a day :(
do you have transport? still a few good ones round our way...

the main reason I still do it after all these years is that there is still a core of good friends I have made from the scene - Its worth taking a break though if its getting to the stage where its not fun anymore! I actually stopped raving from 2002-2004 because things were going downhill but kept in touch with my friends (I also met a few new people as well because I had more spare time - and got a new job which improved my morale etc...) - and eventually started partying again as our local scene picked up briefly (but then got too big and the clampdown started)

I think people do need to become less competitive/bitchy/stressed when actually doing raves (free or licensed) - there's a lot of posing and machismo now (I think it is perhaps also due to the gender divide and society becoming angrier)

but raves are supposed to be fun, not more stressful than your day job - and we can't afford not to work together when people like cops and residents groups are working together to stop our events...

[BioTech]

I personally don't have transport. I rely on mates for lifts and stuff and it's not always easy to drive to other areas. We do keep talking about checking some other places out though.

To be honest, it's not the parties. There are some good parties round here.

I think I just miss how I used to feel about a parties. A lot of the friends I used to have in the party scene are now of the same attitude as me and lots have moved on. Rigs I used to love and party with have gone and we don't hold parties ourselves anymore. Just seems too much competition and rivalry to even bother. Guaranteed if you do a party there will be another 2 parties on the same night not too far away splitting people apart. Then for the next few weeks you'll hear people debate the merits of each party and choose which one was the best.

Plus dealing with the police isn't the same anymore. They have to put up with shit from other rigs all the time so now they aren't really prepared to listen. It's fight back in numbers or lose your rig, and I'm really not down with that sorta crap anymore.

Maybe a year down the line I'll be thinking differently. Lets hope so. The music and the parties have been a big part of my life for 15 years in one way or another. I'll always love the music but at the moment I'm just an observer as far as parties are concerned.

[BioTech]

Guaranteed if you do a party there will be another 2 parties on the same night not too far away splitting people apart. Then for the next few weeks you'll hear people debate the merits of each party and choose which one was the best.

Before anyone suggests trying to get everybody to join together... we tried that a few times. Sometimes it would be an up front no because they don't wont to be seen to be partying with us as we aren't part of the 'club' (long story), or they would say yes and then do another party somewhere else anyway.

[General Lighting]

Before anyone suggests trying to get everybody to join together... we tried that a few times. Sometimes it would be an up front no because they don't wont to be seen to be partying with us as we aren't part of the 'club' (long story), or they would say yes and then do another party somewhere else anyway.

we had this developing in the Thames Valley but it got better - ironically because of the clamping down!

As parties became harder to put on crews became a lot better at sharing spaces and buildings (even if they had differences over music styles) and if two raves go off on the same weekend they are miles away from each other at different ends of the region.

This IMO is better as not everyone has easy access to transport or can afford the not insubstantial costs of travelling hundreds of miles (also better for road safety). People are also more sensible about finish times and clearing up....

Even so one particular crew overdid one particular area and paid the price for it, and I have already mentioned on the other thread where trying to be "militant" eventually gets people. Its been tried before, either cops and locals push back, or the increasing acceptance of violence to solve matters means wannabe hard men start moving in.

None of this is a good thing.

If we are brutally honest with ourselves its becoming clear that crews are being forced back into licensed venues and if any more underground events are to continue we need to look at new ideas and tactics; the current way of doing things is not sustainable.

[globalloon]

but raves are supposed to be fun, not more stressful than your day job

it's funny that

it was the fun, freedom, self expression that got me into raving

then i felt that i was going to parties and they were too restrictive (either musically or it was all the same people doing things in the same way - a bit cliquey you might say)

so some friends and me started getting our own parties together

no music policy, no attitude

but then we found that people demand to be able to put you in a box (a techno/psy/house rig etc) or you get sidelined or not taken seriously

well forget all that

our parties will always be messy, raggamuffin, have live bands as well as DJs, we will never have security or know what time we will go home

there will be old people and children

and they will all be SAFE

arrrgh

bring on the springtime

[alexrising]

Not actuly having been to a free party yet, the comments im reading are worrying (i wont be taking my misses untill ive been to a few!) and hopefull (people still care). I know people who go to London raves and say its very hit and miss. I left the (club)DnB secene back in 96 cos the the kind of violence/attitude you are talking about, but now its picked up again, havent seen a punch up in a few years.
?????? does the vibe need to be steped back from to lets things cool down ??????

[General Lighting]

it's funny that

so some friends and me started getting our own parties together

no music policy, no attitude

but then we found that people demand to be able to put you in a box (a techno/psy/house rig etc) or you get sidelined or not taken seriously

well forget all that

our parties will always be messy, raggamuffin, have live bands as well as DJs, we will never have security or know what time we will go home

there will be old people and children

and they will all be SAFE

arrrgh

bring on the springtime

this is pretty much what happens with the collective in our area as well (K32) - we have a very diverse music policy, our parties are still as open as they can be (we have not had to deploy security). Lots of people attend them and enjoy themselves and have never complained about the music..

they do finish at a mutually agreed time around Sunday afternoon but thats because some people have to travel 50-60 miles to get to the venue and people have normal jobs some of which also involve driving - its self preservation really, we don't want anybody having a crash because of sleep deprivation!

[BioTech]

Not actuly having been to a free party yet, the comments im reading are worrying (i wont be taking my misses untill ive been to a few!) and hopefull (people still care). I know people who go to London raves and say its very hit and miss. I left the (club)DnB secene back in 96 cos the the kind of violence/attitude you are talking about, but now its picked up again, havent seen a punch up in a few years.
?????? does the vibe need to be steped back from to lets things cool down ??????

Sorry Alex, hope it hasn't put you off the idea.

I can't speak for other areas but around East Anglia the parties are quite safe (unless there is a clash with the police... which seems to be happening more and more). Certain people are turning up that wouldn't have come to the parties before, which means you have to be a little more security conscious with regards to your vehicles etc. Although that's a shame (it didn't used to be like that) it's no different from anywhere else you would leave your car really.

The problem I have with parties round here isn't violence, because you very very rarely see it unless OB are involved and I think this is how it is in most parts of the country bar London.

Saying that though, it still might be wise to check them out yourself to make your own decision.

[General Lighting]

Not actuly having been to a free party yet, the comments im reading are worrying (i wont be taking my misses untill ive been to a few!) and hopefull (people still care). I know people who go to London raves and say its very hit and miss. I left the (club)DnB secene back in 96 cos the the kind of violence/attitude you are talking about, but now its picked up again, havent seen a punch up in a few years.
?????? does the vibe need to be steped back from to lets things cool down ??????
you already live in "londonistan" and seem fairly clued up so I wouldn't worry too much, and you should be fine bringing your girlfriend to most raves outside London.

Whilst (as in any large male-dominated gathering) some idiots may try harrassing girls this is not tolerated at raves I attend and people are prepared to do something about it, but not to the extent where there are punishment beatings and near lynchings as this is one thing that fucked up the London scene. just find someone who is part of the crew or behind the bar or mention it to a few other people and the idiots will be sent on their way.

This would be better than leaving your gf at home as she may get worried about you or annoyed she is missing the fun...

Things are already sorting themselves out because of the backlash from locals - those crews who do not want to lose their rigs or have people getting absos/ going to HMP are learning they have to put on low impact events which are still fun, and ensure the people who attend them are there for the right reasons.

the problems on our scene can be, and must be, overcome - this is otherwise one of the more positive weekend lifestyle choices and can't be abandoned to all the other darkness going on in this world.

[alexrising]

No fear!! it will take alot more than a few idiots to put me off... and if people who want to keep it going/make things better dont come and support, then we wont get anywhere. I believe alot of trobles in this country stem from the "not my problem" mindset..... We cant survive on our own, we need each other!

[monkeypuzzle]

i find it realy sad that so many ppl just expect shit stuff to happen at parties, but again, i think this has something to do with the attitudes of some of the crews putting them on.

when i started in the 90's the crews were part of a much bigger movement of social change. ppl were involved in the fight against the cja, the anti nazi league and an appalling transport policy. as this ended ppl moved on to free parties as a way of expressing this energy with things like the OK cafes in manc. ppl no longer build speakers out of shuttering ply from squats, now, thats sort of a good thing but the diy elemant has been lost and replaced with young boys wanting to have a big rig and play load music cos its cool, not knowing what the roots are (read "bass culture : when reggea was king" lloyd bradley if you realy want to know). what we have to realise is that as with techno, the free party scene that we know/knew has split into many differant types and unfortunately some are bringing a bad name to an already sketchy scene.


long live small happy hippy raves

(and boxes built from scrap wood! he he)

[General Lighting]

i find it realy sad that so many ppl just expect shit stuff to happen at parties, but again, i think this has something to do with the attitudes of some of the crews putting them on.

when i started in the 90's the crews were part of a much bigger movement of social change. ppl were involved in the fight against the cja, the anti nazi league and an appalling transport policy. as this ended ppl moved on to free parties as a way of expressing this energy with things like the OK cafes in manc. ppl no longer build speakers out of shuttering ply from squats, now, thats sort of a good thing but the diy elemant has been lost and replaced with young boys wanting to have a big rig and play load music cos its cool, not knowing what the roots are (read "bass culture : when reggea was king" lloyd bradley if you realy want to know). what we have to realise is that as with techno, the free party scene that we know/knew has split into many differant types and unfortunately some are bringing a bad name to an already sketchy scene.


long live small happy hippy raves

(and boxes built from scrap wood! he he)
I'd suggest selecting better quality recovered wood (it can be found if you look carefully) but otherwise agree with everything you said.

we do need to reverse some negative aspects, such as the culture of violence and hostility and even if we are not accepted reduce the impact on others by better venue choices, timing and logistics.

Its got to the stage where I am a bit wary about this summer - last summer there were riots, ravers and cops got hurt (some seriously) and permanent conflicts were created in some areas, (often due to bad choice of venues which annoyed significant numbers of locals) as well as ravers settling scores at the parties via violence.

I hope this isn't going to happen again this year, or it is going to be impossible to justify to the rest of society why these sort of events should continue. A commercial club where violence regularly occured would be shut down, so why should an unlicensed event which makes no obvious contribution to the local economy but creates extra problems be permitted?

[liaphin]

when i started going to partys i thought that this was the way forward people were trying to get together and be free. this by the way was not 1993 or 89 but 2000. i do belive that there is still this idea going on but in england it is hard to find. poeple put each other in to pigen holes like: "your a psy trancer you carn't like techno", "technos just for dirtry ket heads" or "techno, trance its all about the dnb"...

i find this all over the place when what people should be doing of saying is lets all pull together and drop all this bullshit. i think that some poeple have a political focus and others do it cause they wont to get "mash up" and "funk the pigs". me personly i party to have a good time and each time i see creative freedom which i belive should not be stoped. a party at the end of the day can not change the world to much but the people who party can if they get active. i dont know if this makes any sense. but hay its the most i've wrote on here.
for me it makes sense what you write :-)
i am not english and i dont know your scene very good but i´ve realised what you are saying myself over there and via conversations with people.
freeparty doesnt make you a free person and you are not more free danicng in a club to good music or at a freeparty.
i dont agree with people that do parties just for fun but after all to mash themselves up in a way they could never do in a club. this mainly for me is the problem, cause freeparty attracts drugheads that dont have the idea of free cultural expression.
how ever you could do a party or do uncommercial art, play alternative music that would hardly exist if there was not freeparties to play them...?
thats for me the background and the reason why i am interested and attracted in. and this makes it as well to a matter of politic cause the moment you do it illegal, you do a crime for teh governments.
humans has always been in the need of expression, it is part of our nature. but looking our lifes it has become hard to express, to be a cultural being, to be active. we got educated to consume only and freeparties are one way still some of us can be doing things.
but as well in this scene you find the same hedonism and egoism and stupidity like you find in the "society" - thats fact !
i spent my time in this scene always going on and forwarding my ideas and for luckyness the likeminded always find and therefore idealism of people will never die. i dont waste much time anymore to convince people in a particular "spirit" or ideal i believe in. i just live it and surprisingly enough i always find people...more and more which actually have the same aims and ideas.
this scene gave me the base to find them, so i am happy and positive about it and even thou i think the "scene" need to be reeducated, education happens thru exemplify something through one´s own life and activity
:smile:

[rob]

Its not a good feeling to chip in and be negative too though i do agree with some of the 'back in the day' and slightly whistful, and confused, observations folks have put here.

Things have deffo got more sinsiter and a bit edgy the last couple of seasons. The surprise i feel is how i always assumed the free party secene was a constant; with about the same levels of criminality, enterprise, excitement, cliquey-ness and safety. It always seemed to me the pattern of boom and bust seen in other indoor and commercial dance music genres (the excitement of the birth of a new style or feeling of the music and the eventual degeneration into a drug fuelled frenzy of moronic copycat records) was curiosly absent from the free party scene.

Looking at the previous posts it seems a set of complex social issues!

I seem to notice there are less people at do's who have been away abroad recently. At one time the free party scene had a quite proud international air. i meet less people just back from exciting places now it seems, with stories of dicsovering stuff. and less people invoved in a time consuming and intensive art/music/living projects.

possibly its just me being an old whinger. and ive heard some horrid stories from the 'early days' of gangsters and hards muscling in on idealistic parties for a quick buck. but there's the disctinction, most of those stories are about outsiders to the scene muscling in. these posts seem much more sinister as much of the complaints are about crews, locals to party venues and bad minded hangers on. inside the scene.

all a bit of a worry....

[Raj]

stuff goes in cycles; the problems come and go

to quote a mate of mine:
" if we stop trying to do things the way we like them done and let others have their way thatt's what we will end up with"

his point was as valid to this as what we were talking about then.

:question_ If we never educate younger partygoers or show them how it should be done how will they know any better? After all these modern parties are what they know. They cant remember being part of what we older folks experienced and are basing their judgement on what they believe to be true or what they have heard [especially what their mates have said...:alien_abd].
Until we challenge those beliefs at their roots this problem will never go away; we can waffle about it all we want but it isnt fixing the problem.

:rant: the problem is addressed by treating them as we would like to be treated and yes there will always be a*holes who throw it back in your face


:rant: they are all scared of something, all looking to make a new friend or connect with someone ; to find someone who cares; someone who will listen to their problems/fears/woes; someone who will not judge them for being uncool/stupid/fat/slow/[insert whatever seems right] but care for them for who they are now:rant:
:group_hug the unjudgemental acceptance/ love/caring was what sucked me in to parties and its what i try to bring back to them; whichever way i do it be it legally or otherwise
so i take the time to speak to the folk when i have it; to check they are ok and dont need something; introduce them to folks they dont know and might like; just care about them [and i always feel that i dont do enough of this; that if i had just taken time to speak to x s/he might be dealing with it better]

:horay:everybody feels better when someone cares about them even if they hardly know them;

:rant:we need to show them how we want them to behave before they will know how it is done; you wouldnt expect a child to be born with table manners and you s[I]hoould not expect young ravers to be born with party manners

[missMushed]

I havnt read all the threads so aplogies if i regurgetate any said information already! but as far as i can see the whole scene has changed just in thepast 4 years alone (well definately around norfolk anyway!) I have pretty much stopped raving in norfolk altogether as im sick of going to raves where all the organisers are preaching about peace love and unity, and not even understanding the meaning of it all! surely peace love and unity should be to everyone and everything....people and nature included, so why do brainwash and all their mini followers insist on putting on parties in the most inconvienient and inconspicous places? The younger generation of ravers only really seem to be interested in fighting the police and causing havok! NYE party was put on in the same place as they got gassed before, which is obviously them trying to make a point and say they are above the law, but they are not. None of us are. The law is a pain in the arse and we all have to woirk around it, butwe cannot fight it with fire, it needs to be fought with wit and intellegence, but unfortunately due to the copious amounts of ketamine being snorted intellegence is obviously something that is now lacked amongst new skool ravers! they seem to think by leaving your parents 10 bed mansion for a scummy squat, buying a few speakers, and snorting shit loads of K - its gonna create a revolution! im waiting for the day when all these people have to come round from their k holes and realise the world isnt their to hand them everything on a plate! Also the recent bank hol party was supposedly near a nature reserve...do these people not understand that animals are nesting and breeding at this time of year and need their peace otherwis you will end up with hundreds of abandoned eggs and new babies? It makes me a little sick to think that something i once beleived so much in has become everything i hate :get_you: . Peace x

[missMushed]

long live small happy hippy raves

(and boxes built from scrap wood! he he)


indeed!:horay:

[General Lighting]

i've only just moved into East Anglia from the SE (Reading/Oxon) and TBH I think the same thing has happened everywhere...

its way worse in "Londonistan" - although thats not a very PC name for the capital I use it because I am Asian and I see the capital city as violent and divided as the Middle Eastern countries of the world and the youths there (apart from a few decent people I know) live by fighting and violence as they know no better.

Even their most popular music scene, "grime", is based on fighting, people often beat up each other to the beat of the music!

round here though the "kids" (not all of them are that young either!) many seem to only be doing this because they are essentially powerless.

they appear to have already given up on making society something better; all they want to do is play a bit of music - but even if they try to do this by the proper channels it is denied to them in some areas (I've already made another thread about how locked down suffolk is!)

that said I think a lot of the dodgy venue choices happen because people forget East Anglia is flat, and are quite stubborn (on both sides) - theres an age-old intolerance of noise and "staying up too late" in England.

I mean people here in Ipswich seem to all go to bed by 23:00...

it needs some sort of compromise or meeting of minds somewhere, otherwise there is going to be a big incident one day and people on both sides are going to get hurt. raves arent' just going to go away, but local yokels aren't going to roll over and accept being invaded/kept awake

I've been told that Norwich/Norfolk is a safe place but this weekend a homeless got the shit kicked out of him, the weekend before people were just getting randomly punched on prince of wales avenue, and I saw a lot of anger about in peoples messageboard posts on SJ (not defence against trolls but real hate about immigrants or anyone else who was different ) - you get the impression sometimes that if it wasn't for K there would be more violence..

the use of the RAF base for a massive rave though was only because the crews had been run out of their normal areas - I wasn't there but I expect the rigs were kept in that part and the nature reserve is some distance away. had the cops not forced ravers out of other East Anglian areas there would have been less rigs in that area.

its been raved before and I once worked for the organisation that looks after these nature reserves; had I been aware of any real danger to the wildlife I would have noticed it by now and posted stuff about it. raaa

the use of the RAF base for raves is far better than its previous use for making things to kill people with..

[missMushed]

i've only just moved into East Anglia from the SE (Reading/Oxon) and TBH I think the same thing has happened everywhere...

its way worse in "Londonistan" - although thats not a very PC name for the capital I use it because I am Asian and I see the capital city as violent and divided as the Middle Eastern countries of the world and the youths there (apart from a few decent people I know) live by fighting and violence as they know no better.

Even their most popular music scene, "grime", is based on fighting, people often beat up each other to the beat of the music!

round here though the "kids" (not all of them are that young either!) many seem to only be doing this because they are essentially powerless.

they appear to have already given up on making society something better; all they want to do is play a bit of music - but even if they try to do this by the proper channels it is denied to them in some areas (I've already made another thread about how locked down suffolk is!)

that said I think a lot of the dodgy venue choices happen because people forget East Anglia is flat, and are quite stubborn (on both sides) - theres an age-old intolerance of noise and "staying up too late" in England.

I mean people here in Ipswich seem to all go to bed by 23:00...

it needs some sort of compromise or meeting of minds somewhere, otherwise there is going to be a big incident one day and people on both sides are going to get hurt. raves arent' just going to go away, but local yokels aren't going to roll over and accept being invaded/kept awake

I've been told that Norwich/Norfolk is a safe place but this weekend a homeless got the shit kicked out of him, the weekend before people were just getting randomly punched on prince of wales avenue, and I saw a lot of anger about in peoples messageboard posts on SJ (not defence against trolls but real hate about immigrants or anyone else who was different ) - you get the impression sometimes that if it wasn't for K there would be more violence..

the use of the RAF base for a massive rave though was only because the crews had been run out of their normal areas - I wasn't there but I expect the rigs were kept in that part and the nature reserve is some distance away. had the cops not forced ravers out of other East Anglian areas there would have been less rigs in that area.

its been raved before and I once worked for the organisation that looks after these nature reserves; had I been aware of any real danger to the wildlife I would have noticed it by now and posted stuff about it. raaa

the use of the RAF base for raves is far better than its previous use for making things to kill people with..

Fair play but i was told it was actually on the nature reserve. Still that doiesnt give them any excuse, if they are gonna plan a 3 day rave, plan it ffs. They have plenty of time to find a suitable location, and also should expect hassle from the police and have a few deacent back up plans. I work hard as a volunteer conservationist, and when i can see hard work undon it makes me a little resentful.
Norwich is a violent place, but not so much so as other major cities, but since i was a bout 13, there have always been pople mugged, attacked and raped in norwich, nedles to say i dont walk the streets alone late at night as i value my saftey, but even that wont protect you, tyhe opther month a friend has his neighbour stab up a guy who tried to rob him on his doorstep, there was blood and flesh all over my mates front door...not a pretty sight to see after a party! I dont think K numbs the violence at all, ganja does, but k can cause psychotic thoughts and bring out the anger in people, i definately see it bring out the worst in alot of norwich people, and day by day watch their lives flow down the plughole. Im now pregnant and maybe that has changed my opinion, as now i have sometihing to keep myself alive for, (where as before in the past i had always been quite messy and reckless with my life), but seeing even the people i only know spiral out of control on Ket, makes me worried for the future of not only raves and my friends but of my child. As i know i would be devestated if my kid was a k head. Each to their own choice of course and i have no quims with peoiple dabbling in K dont get me wrong. its the obsession that its gonna create a revolution!

[General Lighting]

Fair play but i was told it was actually on the nature reserve.

the RAF base was only declassified very recently (although it had been decommissioned years ago) - it was not shown on maps but the nature reserve is!

believe you me if English Nature/Natural England) really thought their reserve was being rinsed right on their own doorstep (well at least until they all get shunted up North next year) they would have locked it down good and proper last time it got raved. The chaps and ladies there are not stupid and they know all about raves - yet they have admitted that they are low-impact compared to the damage farmers inflict on the environment when they are desparate to increase crop yields and profit.

Still that doiesnt give them any excuse, if they are gonna plan a 3 day rave, plan it ffs. They have plenty of time to find a suitable location, and also should expect hassle from the police and have a few deacent back up plans. I work hard as a volunteer conservationist, and when i can see hard work undon it makes me a little resentful.


this is true; although I'm a newcomer to the area I'm amazed that all the same locations get rinsed so often; and no one can find anywhere else. Its true that big landowners own a lot of the area; but surely there are smaller clearings, disused and abandoned farms or other areas in two of the biggest counties in England?

if people keep rinsing the obvious places like Thetford forest its bound to bring things on top! All land belongs to someone and under the feudal system which still exists it ultimately all belongs to the Crown.

the Norfolk/Suffolk border is there because ancient tribes fought bitterly to get control of the forest resources and the surrounding lands, and this is repeated at every border area in the country.

Perhaps ket and laziness do have a point but I've noticed many people do not even have a clue about the actual terrain and layout of even the 25 mile radius in which they live in, even if they have been there for years, and when choosing venues pick the "easiest possible option".

that said once big problem round here is that because the land is so good and fertile since ancient times there have been villages and settlements around every parcel of land; now with the decline of small scale farming they are either owned by the elderly or middle class nimby types who shit themselves every time they see more than 3 strange vehicles in the area..

I dont think K numbs the violence at all, ganja does, but k can cause psychotic thoughts and bring out the anger in people, i definately see it bring out the worst in alot of norwich people, and day by day watch their lives flow down the plughole.


unfortunately much the same can be said for cannabis - or any other drug.

drugs are merely like the amplifier in a rig; if you put a good quality signal into it you get good sound from the loudspeaker, but if the signal has noise and interference that will also be made worse.

so if people are angry and psychotic to start with drugs will clearly make them worse and if they keep taking them they will destroy themselves and others.

Im now pregnant and maybe that has changed my opinion, as now i have sometihing to keep myself alive for, (where as before in the past i had always been quite messy and reckless with my life),


congratulations - globaloon and his wife recently became parents. be careful though that your laudable desire to protect your child does not get corrupted into a desire to restrict others.

This is how in this country the nanny state very successfully works; by appealing to the maternal instincts of women... most of the anti-social behaviour laws have been set up by female ministers who want to improve the behaviour of youths and children.

but seeing even the people i only know spiral out of control on Ket, makes me worried for the future of not only raves and my friends but of my child. As i know i would be devestated if my kid was a k head. Each to their own choice of course and i have no quims with peoiple dabbling in K dont get me wrong. its the obsession that its gonna create a revolution!

I'm surprised TBH to hear people think that in East anglia, never heard it elsewhere where its just seen as a bit of fun.

Most of the hate and anger sadly occurs when people they realise they need jobs/money to survive, and then they find that because they are not prepared to work hard during the week as well as play hard, other people from Europe and elsewhere have come to Britain taken jobs that these people refuse to do...

but instead of even doing something else positive like setting up an infoshop or an eco centre they sit in their squats and blame everybody or do a bit of petty crime to get by.

I used to knock around with loads of squatters in Reading and saw this happen time and time again..

The only way society may be better is if people come together, not just ravers, otherwise we will end up with our country looking like Baghdad is now...

[Mr Fixxy]

absolutely cracking thread.

There are alot of questions it brings up.

One of the most serious being that is it possible to do everything legally now 'minus the obvious drug abuse' with as much sucess in legally licenced venues.

When rave evolved it was partly due to a backlash at the unreasonable licensing laws. Now you can pretty much got to a nightclub night for the same price as a rave (or close) for the same amount of time.


is legal the way forward?

[General Lighting]

absolutely cracking thread.

When rave evolved it was partly due to a backlash at the unreasonable licensing laws. Now you can pretty much got to a nightclub night for the same price as a rave (or close) for the same amount of time.



but your endz is londonistan innit? :ar15:

this is clearly not the case in all areas of the UK. Some areas do not have venues opening after 2am and those in power do not want that to change.

Suffolk is a good example as it borders on to Norfolk, Cambs and Essex where there is a larger night-time economy.

Their "politically correct" argument is that it creates further costs, risks, dangers and burdens to society as the findings from other counties reflect this (what the cops don't deal with, the NHS picks up!)

The real reason is that its cheaper as the kids who have cars travel to the other counties and any trouble that occurs is Someone Elses Problem.

is legal the way forward?

surely its a backward step? legal late night events, licensed on a market-based, competitive framework including full payment of "extra" costs of policing etc have been around 10 years or more and are available to those who can afford to pay ticket prices, or can travel to places where the authorities grudgingly allow this to happen.

what people want is a low cost, lightly regulated solution which isn't only open to those with lots of money to risk on an event that could still be stopped at last minute or disrupted (think of what happened to the Fridge this weekend).

However to get it people do need to improve their self-regulation - two generations have already tried and failed.

[T.I.G]

absolutely cracking thread.

There are alot of questions it brings up.

One of the most serious being that is it possible to do everything legally now 'minus the obvious drug abuse' with as much sucess in legally licenced venues.

When rave evolved it was partly due to a backlash at the unreasonable licensing laws. Now you can pretty much got to a nightclub night for the same price as a rave (or close) for the same amount of time.


is legal the way forward?

I've been going to alot more legal parties over the last year as the amount of more 'underground' club-nights going on seems to have been increasing by the week (coupled with the fact that I haven't been going to free-parties as much due to winter/not wanting to stay up all night)

We started doing our own legal night on a monthly basis about 4 or 5 months ago and it has been cracking, although we're going to need a bigger venue soon!

The reason I state the above is to show that I like the legal scene before I say this...

...I really don't think we can do everything as well in a legal club (minus drug use) because:
- people just can't run riot in the same way
- there isn't the joy of a new place to explore almost every weekend
- it costs a hell of alot more, i.e. paying £3 for a bottle of beer when you can just take your own to a free-party
- i think another large appeal of free raves is people have their cars/vans/tents etc as a retreat and a bit of personal space, which is rarely the case with a club

[elraveon]

absolutely cracking thread.

There are alot of questions it brings up.

One of the most serious being that is it possible to do everything legally now 'minus the obvious drug abuse' with as much sucess in legally licenced venues.

When rave evolved it was partly due to a backlash at the unreasonable licensing laws. Now you can pretty much got to a nightclub night for the same price as a rave (or close) for the same amount of time.


is legal the way forward?
I think its a direction we are being herded into. ;)

[CT23]

hi

i dont know your scene over there really much. have been there for some parties, some really crap and scary...some decent ones as well, which surely has been the efford of the soundsystem. i have spend more than a year now on squatjuice and finally gave up cause the general mood of the young partypeople just doent cope with mine at all and i find it really unconstructive, desillusionative, sad, etc...yes..it makes me angry as well cause seriousy i dont see the point of middle class kids ( kids at least able to access interent all day long...) playing the generation x and let themselve float in the mood of no hope, no love, being cool blabla. unch of opportunists if you ask me, cause the one i spoke personaly to were almost all agreeing with me - but in the forum caling me hippie, which took me a while to understand thats a insult !!!

i dont want to blame the single kids/ persons/crews - it looks much more like a general problem of teh society over there ?!
this isnt at all judgemental - more i would lieke to read some posts and what people which actually join the scene say. as well i think it may be interesting for you to read how someone from outside see the things.

i can see a lot of comone things in the european party scene, in the difefernt countries...of course a lot controversialas as well. but NOWHERE else i found a scene so much rotten and sad as i found in the uk.

tell me what you think :smile:


Stop moaning ya bloody Hippy . . .

:crazy_fre

OJ I call for revolution - local goverment, wider democracy

Environmental/public sector/financial/local ammentitys reform

Its our bloody system lets show them we'll take the rains



If you can get legal outside partys in the countryside

then fairplay

otherwise its strictly free all the way - has to be?????

[stylecomplex]

i kinda think that the free party scene has always been set to self destruct, the enthesis being on freedom but what some people dont understand is that freedom is not individual to you, freedom does not mean i can do what the fuck i want, tread on peoples toes etc you must respect others peoples right to express themselvs not get robbed etc.

today we live in a society filled with rules and regulations people get to an event were they are free from all this bullshit and its to much for them they dont know how to controll themselvs.

its like you keep a dog on a lead its hole life as soon as you take the lead of its gona run away/go wild. our society dosent teach self controll instead it governs you constantly.

[stylecomplex]

the use of the RAF base for raves is far better than its previous use for making things to kill people with..


this is very true

[rob]

damn there are some bright folks on these boards.
and a lot of good sense.

i like the idea of the smaller , less impact DIY setup though i worry about elitism. certainly it is so that too many cooks spoil the brew in those places where too many crews are competing.

i feel the message is wrong at times - one thing that used to set the rave scene apart was the understanding that rave folks did what they did and enjoyed themselves in the way we do because we were broadly decent, broadly minded, tolerant and understanding but didnt need necessarily to follow all the nitpicking bs rules imposed by and followed by the faceless selfish hordes. hence our fun was subversive but difficult to truly demonise (note how the press gave up trying back in the early nineties on a national level)

i agree with the observation that unnecessary and out of control behaviour is more prevalent than before and often thats down to folks thinking they can leave all their respect and manners in the car ashtray with their spare rizla. its up to us to say 'not so' and be proud of our high standards of thought and work hard to party accordingly!

[missMushed]

the RAF base was only declassified very recently (although it had been decommissioned years ago) - it was not shown on maps but the nature reserve is!

believe you me if English Nature/Natural England) really thought their reserve was being rinsed right on their own doorstep (well at least until they all get shunted up North next year) they would have locked it down good and proper last time it got raved. The chaps and ladies there are not stupid and they know all about raves - yet they have admitted that they are low-impact compared to the damage farmers inflict on the environment when they are desparate to increase crop yields and profit.



this is true; although I'm a newcomer to the area I'm amazed that all the same locations get rinsed so often; and no one can find anywhere else. Its true that big landowners own a lot of the area; but surely there are smaller clearings, disused and abandoned farms or other areas in two of the biggest counties in England?

if people keep rinsing the obvious places like Thetford forest its bound to bring things on top! All land belongs to someone and under the feudal system which still exists it ultimately all belongs to the Crown.

the Norfolk/Suffolk border is there because ancient tribes fought bitterly to get control of the forest resources and the surrounding lands, and this is repeated at every border area in the country.

Perhaps ket and laziness do have a point but I've noticed many people do not even have a clue about the actual terrain and layout of even the 25 mile radius in which they live in, even if they have been there for years, and when choosing venues pick the "easiest possible option".

that said once big problem round here is that because the land is so good and fertile since ancient times there have been villages and settlements around every parcel of land; now with the decline of small scale farming they are either owned by the elderly or middle class nimby types who shit themselves every time they see more than 3 strange vehicles in the area..



unfortunately much the same can be said for cannabis - or any other drug.

drugs are merely like the amplifier in a rig; if you put a good quality signal into it you get good sound from the loudspeaker, but if the signal has noise and interference that will also be made worse.

so if people are angry and psychotic to start with drugs will clearly make them worse and if they keep taking them they will destroy themselves and others.



congratulations - globaloon and his wife recently became parents. be careful though that your laudable desire to protect your child does not get corrupted into a desire to restrict others.

This is how in this country the nanny state very successfully works; by appealing to the maternal instincts of women... most of the anti-social behaviour laws have been set up by female ministers who want to improve the behaviour of youths and children.



I'm surprised TBH to hear people think that in East anglia, never heard it elsewhere where its just seen as a bit of fun.

Most of the hate and anger sadly occurs when people they realise they need jobs/money to survive, and then they find that because they are not prepared to work hard during the week as well as play hard, other people from Europe and elsewhere have come to Britain taken jobs that these people refuse to do...

but instead of even doing something else positive like setting up an infoshop or an eco centre they sit in their squats and blame everybody or do a bit of petty crime to get by.

I used to knock around with loads of squatters in Reading and saw this happen time and time again..

The only way society may be better is if people come together, not just ravers, otherwise we will end up with our country looking like Baghdad is now...


Thank you for the congratulations, and yeah i can see your point about being careful not to impose restrictions on others...all i seem to wanna do is mother everyone! which is becoming a bit annoying! But hard to do. There is this unbearabl maternal instinct that i never knew i had slowly brewing up inside of me (more so after hearing my babys heart beat today!:wave: ) that makes me want to protect and look after everyone that needs it! but i will def take ur advice on board!

In norwich Ket is becoming a bit of a problem (from some peoples eyes obviously not in the eyes of the K heads!), with the k dealer(s) pushing it onto young girls and turning the innocent into squat junkies. they then beleive that K is the way forward and i hate to say it but there is one group of people obsessed with ket that is worringly turning into a charles manson esque type family....nuff said. Some people i know even do it at work because they cant stop doing it during the day! coke i can understand this coz you stay compus mentus, but to be doing ket to benormal...suggests to me there is a problem! I think alot of this comes from boredom of being stuck in the arse end of britain with most reasonable entertainment out of reach along with half deacent job opportunities. with no hope of getting a deacent job locally and no inspiration to work in retail/sales/catering or factories, there is little else to do! this is a shame as i feel norfolk kills all inspiration and ambition, and you often find people who come here from other places such as london, get stuck here andsucked into it all as norwich is too comfortable and familiar. its like one big village everyone knows everyone one way or another. I for one would find it hard to move from here to another city knowing norwich is a pretty safe place as far as the UK is concerned especially now with a child on the way!

There are alot of places to party if u look hard enough, but as u said people tend to go for the easy option. A friend and I are thinking about orgnising a couple of one off partys this year in an attempt to bring back the old vibe east anglia had, not just one big stack and nothing else, but tents, colour, bars, chill out area, reggae tent etc, and we have found 3 cocha places all land owned by people willing to lend it to us. this means we have 2 back up plans if it gos wrong. Not one of these place is near housing, nor likely to disturb anyone else. its not hard if you are prepared to look.

And yeah i agree, all dugs cause psychosis and ive seen people fuck up from smoking weed all day everyday as they see this as acceptable where as they might not do other drugs if u see what i mean.

And yes indeed we do need to stick together not just as a party scene but as a whole, but that idea is long gone. with peoples preconseptions of what should be rather than seeing what actually is and dealing with the problem. And steroetyping instead of seeing what people are really about. Alot of this separation is caused by the media and media hype and the fact that most people are too ignorant to really give a shit!

peace xx:horay:

[General Lighting]

the maternal instinct is otherwise a very good thing (like those stories you see where a female animal in a sanctuary adopts the young of a across territorial/species boundaries..)

you might be better off talking to globaloon about baby type stuff as he's a recent dad - I know little about babies (other that they need to be fed, taken for walks and you should not let them escape and wander the streets) and view the thought of fatherhood with horror at the moment. for me they are like dogs, cute but high-maintenance and better if someone else is looking after them..

In norwich Ket is becoming a bit of a problem (from some peoples eyes obviously not in the eyes of the K heads!), with the k dealer(s) pushing it onto young girls and turning the innocent into squat junkies. they then beleive that K is the way forward and i hate to say it but there is one group of people obsessed with ket that is worringly turning into a charles manson esque type family....nuff said. Some people i know even do it at work because they cant stop doing it during the day!
I've seen this happen with pills, then speed, and now ket and it regularly happens with booze. Its part of Britain's binge culture but I agree with what you also said that it is because life in Britain can be utterly boring and soul-destroying sometimes.

OTOH boredom and lack of jobs is country-wide - it also occurs because we are stubborn and push against the "babylon system" and refuse to accept what they offer us, they push back by (grudgingly) loosening border controls and giving these jobs to people from other lands who will work weekends and 12 hour days.

it is no better in London, Reading or Essex (I've lived in all these places as well).

I didn't want to leave all my mates behind in Reading and miss out on loads of raves/fun times with them but my old employers were downsizing and a good job opportunity came out here but it involves more responsibility and sometimes working long hours and weekends to keep up with the workload.


there is an alternative for people who don't want to follow like sheep - but they cannot sit on their arse and cane drugs - as well as fun times they need to get out there and create an alternative local economy, not just based on drugs/stolen goods (which gets you only put in jail eventually) - which is based not just on "fun" stuff like music/art/parties but "important" stuff like food, infrastructure, technology construction and engineering.

I like the idea you have about going back to the "old vibe" and also using places with permission (might be worth looking into the TENS laws (21 quid for a legal party with 500 people!) - the authorities can object but they would be daft not to encourage this sort of event - the desire to party is are not going to go away whatever cops/authorities do and if they stop raves people will do worse drugs and get into more trouble.

I also feel that raves have become quite high-impact recently inasmuch as resource use is concerned, hundreds of motor cars driving to the other end of the country; rigs which require 4 houses worth of electric power (no exaggeration, I worked out how much power was being required for some peoples stacks!)

I reckon there aren't many ravers TBH, perhaps about 10,000 active ones across the entire UK (including Scotland and Wales) maybe 20,000-50,000 including old punks/hippies who dont/can't party any more due to family/work commitments - out of a country of 60 million.

we need to face up to the fact that we are a stubborn, noisy minority (less numerous than even non-white ethnic groups which only make up 6% of the UK's population) and society is currently grudgingly indulging us (but less and less with every year).

I reckon as well a lot of people just give up when the clampdowns get worse they get older / get stable jobs / familes and worse even support clampdowns or go back to licensed clubs as "we've had our fun - fuck the rest of 'em". A lot of the insular drugs culture is essentially an admission of defeat.

more and more we need to create some form of real community that is tolerated by wider society (even if not universally accepted), just as religious and ethnic groups have done - otherwise low-cost, low regulation raves will eventually be stopped altogether.

We need that so that when your baby is a kid or teenager they can still attend a party, and when I am old and look like a cross between Zone Warden and Sifu from a karate film I will still ride my bike to them (even if there are robot electric cars about etc) :D

[missMushed]

you make a good point! its nice to talk to someone who has a mature outlook on life WHO ACTUALLY HAS A VALID POINT TO MAKE! maybe im meeting the worng people, i dunno, but it seems that anyone i know whos around my age (21) has such a narrowminded view of life even though they think they are being liberal! its always our way or no way. not prepared to accept other epople way of life, yet wanting people to respect theirs!

no one is prepared to work as u say long hours and weekends, which i use to before i became pregnant, and my partner does regularly, infact he's doing a 14 hr split shif today after only doing one yesterday! this means that we usually miss out on alot of stuff that hppens, but to be honest are quite happy doing so, as it means our minds are sane, our bodys are healty an dwhen we do get to go out, it makes it so much more worth it and end up having a better time than woulkd have if we raved and got wasted every weekend like we use to. Even then my bf would still work sundays after partying no matter what state he is in.

If we do get these partys organised this year ill be sure to let u know!
And maybe see you in many years to come at a rave far far away!!!

peace!

[General Lighting]

i was a right chav/toerag in my teens to my early 20s and extremely angry/rebellious (to the point where I easily could have committed some quite serious crimes) then a lot of harsh things happened to people I know (in many cases because of their involvement with drugs culture and wider crime)

it made me think "hmm - I do want to carry on raving but I don't want to fuck up my life and future too much".

My immediate and extended family were and are always supportive even during bad times in my life which helped loads. I'm Asian but born in the UK so I've had the benefit of two cultures, a strong (but not overbearing) sense of family values, and can get the best out of both and learn to tolerate everyone if they tolerate me

I also know how locked down societies can become out of fear, intolerance or merely a desire for "economic growth and stability" and don't want Britain to go the way of some Asian nations in order to compete in the global market (which seems to be happening)

Also the internet became a big thing in my life - I've been online since 1992 and there I learned about the wider alternative community stuff which also filtered in from the eco-protest movements of the mid 90s.

At the same time the skills I learned about helping people and machines communicate via the net have kept me in work over these years despite not having that many paper qualifications (I don't have a degree or anything like that...)

I still look like a young Asian kid wearing sportswear most of the time though (people often can't find me at raves as they are looking for an old bearded hippy - LOL )

[rob]

i hope most of us realised early on in the evolution of the scene it was a bit of a tightrope and has provided comfort for people wanting to drop out and do nothing constructive, as much as for those wanting to make a difference.

now heres the rub.

its one of the best observations made yet. we are a noisy stubborn minority, expensive in resources and generally wasteful. and if we dont want to make it all in the name of something progressive then much of the scene is just pure hedonsim.
and if thats what were all really there for then at least be honest and say as much. if there is an underlying ethos (rather than a vague sense of wanting 'freedom from oppression' - sound familiar?) we should make more of it.

[General Lighting]

i hope most of us realised early on in the evolution of the scene it was a bit of a tightrope and has provided comfort for people wanting to drop out and do nothing constructive, as much as for those wanting to make a difference.

now heres the rub.

its one of the best observations made yet. we are a noisy stubborn minority, expensive in resources and generally wasteful. and if we dont want to make it all in the name of something progressive then much of the scene is just pure hedonsim.
and if thats what were all really there for then at least be honest and say as much.
which to be fair on the "cheesy clubbers" who go on sites like DSI and attend raves like Gatecrasher, Tidytrax etc, this is exactly what they are doing. They are perfectly happy to pay the substantial ticket prices and accept the nanny state of cops, bouncers, defined start/finish times - and to go back to work from Monday to Friday, contributing to the market economy - without whinging and moaning about "babylon etc".

You don't see a lot of incisive political comment on dontstayin.com..

we can't claim "oppression" as much now late night licensed music events are permitted and happen in certain parts of the country.

if there is an underlying ethos (rather than a vague sense of wanting 'freedom from oppression' - sound familiar?) we should make more of it.
I think this is fundamental to the continued survival of these sort of lower-
cost events, as well as (re?)integration with wider society.

There is a spiritual case for being allowed free expression and art for all (not just the rich) even in a capitalist society; but ravers need to state their case in a positive manner by working a bit "smarter" and creating less "problems" as well as using the TENS system (and if the cops cave in to nimbyism then publicising this problem)

As an example raves have happened even in zero tolerance areas - where the one local who stumbled across the event burst out laughing and said "its like Ibiza on my doorstep, I used to go to things like this when I was young, carry on until lunchtime if you want!" (needless to say not a single cop turned up)

I've seen a building's janitor arrive and send cops away after a rave, and saying to the crew "hang on, you left this building cleaner then when I locked it up!"

so it can be done and should be done - unless ravers are prepared to be attending only events with £100 ticket prices and cop checkpoints on entry 5-10 years down the line..

[Sneer@ya!]

Basically i been goin partys for years and been a rudie fo' years and been part ov jackin' cru for years...:crazy_fre

....ive been reading this site fo a while and its got potential, apart from all u f====n fruitcake crying little sad country bumpkins. your always crying about chavs doing this and that. shut up. u lot get your selves so wrecked and cant handle your drugs that u get robbed n beaten by London cru, ha ha, its ya own faults!!!!!!:bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile:

solution dont go London parties!!! simple p--s off!! :bounce_m:

and ya see a 'chav'/'rudie' in a party - leave coz they gonna jack ya!!!!!!!!

pussyholes, stop ya moaning and bitching, jus coz we dont shop in charity shops and smoke old holborn and we like decent music - jungle and HATE tekno, i mean what is that noise all about?????its a joke! thats another story.

yeah the point is there aint no chav-crusty divide, apart from tha one you lot create with all ya moodiness.

[missMushed]

Basically i been goin partys for years and been a rudie fo' years and been part ov jackin' cru for years...:crazy_fre

....ive been reading this site fo a while and its got potential, apart from all u f====n fruitcake crying little sad country bumpkins. your always crying about chavs doing this and that. shut up. u lot get your selves so wrecked and cant handle your drugs that u get robbed n beaten by London cru, ha ha, its ya own faults!!!!!!:bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile:

solution dont go London parties!!! simple p--s off!! :bounce_m:

and ya see a 'chav'/'rudie' in a party - leave coz they gonna jack ya!!!!!!!!

pussyholes, stop ya moaning and bitching, jus coz we dont shop in charity shops and smoke old holborn and we like decent music - jungle and HATE tekno, i mean what is that noise all about?????its a joke! thats another story.

yeah the point is there aint no chav-crusty divide, apart from tha one you lot create with all ya moodiness.

:bored_yaw :bored: :bored_yaw :you_crazy :you_crazy :you_crazy :you_crazy :you_crazy :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn:

[globalloon]

had a wicked time at belatine celebrations

lots of pure happiness plus plenty deep conversations

music and parties can be a perfect way to build bridges

so many people drifting around a bit lost, using escapism as the only way they know how to deal with so much in life they find instinctively wrong, but don't know how to channel that feeling

when you get people together through music and partyinging it's like a river that knocks the sharp edges off the rocks, smoothes us out likes pebbles and can be a catalyst to finding common purpose

positivity vibes

and happy beltane

[Dutti B]

hi

i dont know your scene over there really much. have been there for some parties, some really crap and scary...some decent ones as well, which surely has been the efford of the soundsystem. i have spend more than a year now on squatjuice and finally gave up cause the general mood of the young partypeople just doent cope with mine at all and i find it really unconstructive, desillusionative, sad, etc...yes..it makes me angry as well cause seriousy i dont see the point of middle class kids ( kids at least able to access interent all day long...) playing the generation x and let themselve float in the mood of no hope, no love, being cool blabla. unch of opportunists if you ask me, cause the one i spoke personaly to were almost all agreeing with me - but in the forum caling me hippie, which took me a while to understand thats a insult !!!

i dont want to blame the single kids/ persons/crews - it looks much more like a general problem of teh society over there ?!
this isnt at all judgemental - more i would lieke to read some posts and what people which actually join the scene say. as well i think it may be interesting for you to read how someone from outside see the things.

i can see a lot of comone things in the european party scene, in the difefernt countries...of course a lot controversialas as well. but NOWHERE else i found a scene so much rotten and sad as i found in the uk.

tell me what you think :smile:

unfortunately I AGREE WITH YOU 100%

I am english and am a great britain but the tolerance and morals of alot of english youngsta's is ubelievabely out of tone with any other country.

For this I am ashamed and feel that the majority put shame to the english society.

But not everyone here is like this only the self centered stuck up ya own arse norrow minded biggots go on squatjuice religously.

I can tell you I know some really free minded people who respect and understand the meaning of free parties and pagens who love the earth and its habitats.

There doesn't seem to be anyone strong enough to show the brat camps the true meaning?

or maybe I am wrong.

what does everyone else think?

[General Lighting]

There doesn't seem to be anyone strong enough to show the brat camps the true meaning?

or maybe I am wrong.

what does everyone else think?

I can't help but think family values and real friendships (not just small talk whilst hammered on drugs and then paranoia/mistrust on comedowns), communities and positive role models need to be emphasised more...

It doesn't mean you have to dress like a full on hippy and live in a yurt made out of recycled materials (unless you want to do such a thing) and it doesn't mean you have to hide from bad news...

but I sometimes get the idea that people have actually forgotten how to interact in a positive manner and depend on drugs to stop them wanting to fight and kill one another (if only for a few hours), also there are a lot of people about just using one another for what they can get instead of real friendships

that said I've noticed some good things on here, there are a bunch of newer younger ravers who seem really clued up, are balancing their lifestyles with the rest of their responsibilities such as education/families etc and even when things get bad they are trying to sort themselves out and not to make all the same mistakes of previous generations..