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| Love, Sex & Relationships Sex, dating, relationships, adult topics and love. Talk openly about your love and sex lives here. Offensive or insulting comments are not welcome! |
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#1
11-09-2005, 11:54 PM
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It's a bit of a smokey night for me, so please do for give me but i was just thinking... for years... i've been told by people around me that males an females can never be JUST friends?
Apparently there's always some sort of feelings going on? I'm undecided? for years i've maintained that they can be really good and close friends but the males i know... either really really honest and admit that it's mainly the sexual attraction thing or they've got one tracked minds? Recently i've become very disheartened as all my male friends have tried it on... and even retards at work... Do people not know how to be just friends any more? or did they ever know... is it one complete game that i should be playing? What do you reckon? i'm lost? 
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#2
12-09-2005, 02:23 AM
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you know people who say you "cant just be friends" are usually those who are too damn embarassed around the opposite sex, or those who like to use the opposite gender be it sex, money (ie have hidden motives)
ive always had male friends, actually i find it a lot easier to get along with boys. none of them have become my "boyfriend" and we havent had some other "attraction" b/w us.... we are all just friends. Its up to you to decide i guess. its stupid to say that you cant just be friends, what about those people who prefer the same sex relationships? they are still friends with both males and females, and there would be no attraction there i say screw what other people say and just do what you want to do. If you are friends with a person of the opposite sex, its not about physical attraction, or "liking" someone in that way. There has to be a liking there, otherwise why would you talk to the person in the first place? 
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#3
12-09-2005, 08:06 PM
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I've got a few female friends who I'd call 'just friends' but i'd be lying (and most males would I think) if I said that the thought has never run through my head. I think it's just natural to run thoughts like that through your head, but it doesn't mean that it would be an ever present thought in my mind at all.
--- There's no set style. If it's runnin' it's runnin!! Partyvibe Radio : Listen :. Level 1 Radio : Listen :.
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#4
13-09-2005, 02:37 PM
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Don't get me wrong... i was always brought up and looked after my males and i've always thought they makke better friends untill recently (well the last year)... they still look out for me now and in their advice about males to me was to be aware that all only have one thing on there mind... from chats and events that have lead on from years ago... it just seems like they wern't messing... Any male i've just hung out with or chilled with has always over stepped the mark, and believe if i think something... i'm saying it!
To me everythings a contract... an agreement made between people... constant negotiations but a form of contract... i also think in accepting someone in your life and as a "friend" you accept any and everything about them and take on their problems as your own... loyalty, committment and support... there's rules... Straight talking and honesty... Stetting things straight , i do from the start... but it is so not a thing or part of a contract i'm willing to re-negotiate... and i get told that i lead them on, what's that about when we're just friends... not even a bootie call you know! Same sex couples... well there's a sexual attraction there... but the friends? i don't know... i'll need to re-think that and have a few more chats with firiends to see what they think before i'll make my mind up on that... I don't know... I have a few gay friends but it's not really my scene! If you know that a friend is in love with you how can there be a proper friendship?... it'll always be unbalanced... is it not better to completely cut contract... almost seems more humain? I do as i like and always have... i chat to absolutly anyone and everyone, always late cause i ran in to someone and spent to long chatting on the street... but with the thought of hurting or knowing at any point i choose, i'm going to end up hurting someone i think a lot of just seems really S#@T!!! And him constantly reminding me is even worse. I so think if i felt that way about a friend then i would so keep it to myself... Any way not a major problem... life is always up and daown... joy and sorrow.... but we always survive xxx Thanks for replying sugar xx
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#5
13-09-2005, 03:56 PM
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If I were to be fully attracted to a friend, though, I'm not sure what I would do. I've always believed honesty to be the key to a good relationship, friendship or otherwise, but what should I do? Should I tell her how I feel? That would undoubtedly make her feel a little dissapointed, I would probably be a little dissapointed in myself too. If I kept it to myself, though, it may not be lying, but it certainly isn't the truth. Feelings & emotions, though, are natural enough things. I think that it may be stranger for people who weren't at least a little attracted to their friends. If you didn't love them, why would they be your friends in the first place? Basically, to sum it up, I have no idea what should be done. Hope this helps... peace
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#6
13-09-2005, 04:45 PM
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i slept with pretty much all my female friends until i got serious about one person
it didn't mean we weren't friends afterwards i have lots of female friends now, although i would never sleep with them hope that helps
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#7
13-09-2005, 05:48 PM
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Suppose it depends on how much you value your freiendship to your heart... what comes first... what makes you happy or what makes her happy...?
Is she on the look out for someone?... or does she just want to left alone? I hate it when male friends decided to write love letters or decide they want more than a friendship... just seems like all the time spent together was false or unbalance... we're at the same place but on different plantets... One min you can be as open and honest with someone then the next you don't want to tell them things just incase it bugs them or something... it's a different ball game.. i haven't been able to maintain the friendship how it was before, it alters something.... but that's coming from someone that wants to be alone... If i wanted to have domestics with someone then i'll call my family!!! Friends should be just friends in my opionion but if you feel the need to say anything then just be perpared just incase the worst happens... anything positive then thats a major BONUS... FRIENDSHIPS last for ever, most relationships don't... Think carefully only you can tell if your in love or if your love her... don't confuse the two sugar xx
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#8
13-09-2005, 05:50 PM
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And sleeping with all your friends... well then they might of well been bootie calls... are they still close female friends?... or what you were up to would probaly to refered to as Playing...
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#9
13-09-2005, 07:12 PM
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#10
13-09-2005, 07:57 PM
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Yeah... i get it... a Bootie Call...sex, no commitment etc... yeah i think they work well but not with real friends?
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#11
13-09-2005, 08:23 PM
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besides, i wouldn't want to have sex with someone i didn't know and like 
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#12
13-09-2005, 08:33 PM
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Well a bootie call you get the sexual commitment but not the rest of the relationship stuff... i wouldn't waste my time for one night!
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#14
13-09-2005, 08:57 PM
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people have different moral standards or values though... many young people are returning to traditional values though - a few of my friends who were complete hedonists are getting married/settling down etc.. But like biotech said blokes will at least think about what it would be like to sleep with their female friends as its been programmed into our minds to think of sex fairly frequently - however if they are decent chaps they don't keep thinking about this it can also be easy to misinterpret signals particularly when drugs or alcohol (which break down emotional barriers) are involved but if it was clear two people were just friends and a lady wanted to be alone you wouldn't keep trying it on, write them love letters nor have domestic arguments etc.... that IMO is rather predatory but there are a lot of people like that about sadly and those who look upon every girl as a potential conquest or trophy... --- Seriantia que quondam fuit Rollandi le Pettour in Hemingeston in comitatu Suff’, pro qua debuit facere die Natali Domini singulis annis coram domino rege unum saltum et sifflettum et unum bumbulum. 15 cans of Adnams.. 
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#15
13-09-2005, 09:08 PM
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I just think bootie call is a nice sounding way of putting it instead of the Fuck buddy... to most it's less offensive words... most will class fuck as a "rude?" word and it's not so blatent...
If you've got kids running around while chatting on the phone... i'd prefer to say Bootie Call than Fuck Buddy! and i know but no matter how hard you try... little ears hear all
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#17
14-09-2005, 10:22 AM
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I've come to realise that while it is possible to be friends with men, it has proved impossible (at least in my own experience) to be freinds with those who are sexually attracted to you.
I've been with my partner for 12 years now - we met at a party way back and have been together ever since, through thick and thin - as a result I've not been interested in starting anything with other male friends. With one male friend I've had a particular problem. We've been friends for a very long time, and though family and other friends warned me that that he had feelings for me i simply refused to acknowledge it or deal with it - we had such a laugh together and I didn't want to lose the person who i thought was my best friend. One night, a very smoked up night, I had fallen asleep while he was still in my bedroom and awoke (very vaugely) with his hand up my top feeling my breasts - i wasn't sure if i ws dreaming or not and i was really stoned. it wasn't until the next day when i confronted him that i was sure that it had actually happened. he apologised and said that he was so high he didn't know what he was doing. I chose to forgive him and never told my boyfriend about it. 10 years later - older and a little wiser - i've realised that our friendship was completely false. no friend would do that to you - but when you're young and naive, you just don't know any better. Now, i don't have time for people like that in my life. he drained my energy, was very demanding, and hung around hoping that i would split from my boyfriend. so, can men and women be freinds? - of course - but the minute that one is attracted to the other, the balance is upset and things can take a very different course.
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#18
14-09-2005, 11:29 AM
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I think a lot of blokes have very little respect nowadays - either for ladies own wishes or even when their own friends are in solid relationships...
perhaps its a backlash against "so-called political correctness", but I'm shocked at some of the attitudes I see amongst younger men and lads nowadays (I think that those of us who grew up in the 1980s and are supporters of progressive politics do have a bit more respect as we were taught to treat women as equals...) women/girls are seen as trophies and for some people its seen as normal male competitiveness to try and steal someone elses girlfriend, and some people are amazingly persistent at trying this :( a couple I know from the party scene get so much shit because of jealousy (including abusive messages to the girl / and threatening messages to the bloke) its unbelievable - and this is all amongst so called "ravers" and not "street chavs" the rave scene also has a nasty habit of driving wedges between couples; usually on the midweek comedowns... if it wasn't for the ketamine about these days IMO there would be way more violence at raves due to the jealousy and competitiveness, they are becoming like townie cattle market clubs (which ironically is deterring people from meeting partners there because all the girls are understandably worried abotu harrasment) its bizzare but I can't help but think for all the hedonism theres very little love left on the modern party scene (although thats no different from wider society TBH)
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#19
14-09-2005, 02:04 PM
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Bless vicky... i know, a horrible situation... what a twat, i totally understand what you mean about not believing it had happened, it's like your brain has a mental block... it's like you go into denial and feel guilty...
Can i ask... what was the reason for not telling your partner? My female friends say i should be flattered and can't understand why it stresses me... and the people at work, we'll there all old and conservitive, ah bless them funny as anything though, took them a while to get used to me but we get on like a house on fire now, i'm the complete odd ball there, stand out like a sore thumb... just pure retardedness... I advise a client, get asked out and they can't understand why i would think the males were being rude... to me, i'm at work, the only thing on offer is advise, can't come down and pick up a bloody date too... what is that about? My manager and the rest of the staff think's it's funny and in a way i suppose it is but then it's not? they think it's funny cause the way i go on about it.. oh i don't know... dame even the way i dress has sparked of arguments at work, My manager said it might be the way i dress... some say i should dress how i want and others are the cover up type... i say nothing.. i'll wear what i want. As general Lighting said... i so do think it is the respect thing... I did advise them that with all the training they've put me through... i know and they know, i know my shit... Sexual and racial Discrimination, Age discrimination, Harrassment... would never do it, i work for a charity but i made my point, the organisation i work for doesn't have a dress code... they can't force me, just small towns, small minds! I want the No dating Notice in reception... i'll get it too! My manager now hides out from me... i'm on his case about a no dating policy with the clients... i already got the building redecorated and a lapTop/ radio for reception lauch a few new projects and sorted their website out... just seems to me there's a time and a place... Oh and i think that smokers are so discriminated against... just ain't fair... The rave scene... i'm not sure i think it's still pretty much them same... the parties this way you don't seem to run into some many sex craved stalkers... only in the clubs... and i'm so not joking... so far... i've had 4 stalkers... most i found amusing and entertained them for a while... but i do just think, is only a matter of time before a negative happens... One followed me back and forth from work and stuff, always around, started making me feel quiet safe after a while! ... one found out where i live and started stalking me over night... at one point every time i came home for a few weeks there was flowers outside my door?... My ex couldn't deal with it... told me i was making it happen? in a way maybe, i just thought they were lonely and had no one to chat to, so why not talk to them?... the final one scared the life out of me, just the vibe i picked up from him... it was really cold?Why is it always the females fault? it's not a blame game... i know refuse to accept any responsibility now.
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#20
14-09-2005, 02:39 PM
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i did actually tell my boyfriend about a year ago what had happened all those years ago - he's the most chilled out and calm person i know and handled it very well but was obviously upset that I hadn't told him sooner. but for years it's been on my mind - like a dirty secret - and now, having told my partner and being able to talk about it like this (even if its anonymously), i can put it behind me. I would say though, that sometimes it can be all too easy for women to use their sexuality for their gain (even if its just harmlessly flirting to get some bloke to do something for you) - but it can backfire too. it's good that you stand up for yourself in the workplace - after finishing uni and getting a good degree I worked for a company that was male dominated (I was the only woman in the office!) - got called Doris (that was a new one - i'd only just moved to london!), told to make the tea etc - bugger that for a laugh! you need to be on an equal footing - with someone who respects you, not for the *image* of you, but for what you are on the inside, lumps, bumps, warts and all!
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#21
14-09-2005, 03:37 PM
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i'm amazed that these blokes who are dependent enough to require the assistance of a charity have the brass neck to try and chat up the members of staff (even if it may be the case you are the youngest and best-looking there).
Its a big problem in the voluntary and public sector though. My aunts are both nurses and work in old folks homes, they are in their middle years and both in relationships with grown up kids but sometimes they still get the old blokes trying it on! Its a good thing I don't work with them or I would end up doing time.... Even in the private sector such an advance between a customer and a service provider (irrespective of gender) would be seen as inappropriate - although the macho male bosses whinge at "political correctness interfering in private business" its actually illegal in all sectors. Private businesses are supposed to take the painful step of turning down a customer who behaved inappropriately towards staff (some actually will do this, although sadly some high-value customers get away with too much). This sort of harrasment needs to be dealt with robustly; I woudldn't stop at a "no dating sign", I would even suggest deploying covert surveillance equipment (but warning people it is there with a sign - you only hide the cameras to stop people attacking them) and panic buttons like many local and central government agencies use to protect their staff. Does your employer have security guards when dealing with the public? Perhaps they should employ some (there are plenty of rentaguards you can get for minimum wage, but many are decent people who do their work well). They can be covertly or discreetly deployed (as is common in small out of town shops nowadays). The way it should work is if you don't behave in an acceptable manner to the people helping you're out the door and have lost your appointment, your record is marked and you lose out in priority to the better behaved - and if you starts ahouting and getting violent with the staff (whatever gender) you will be arrested. ( of course all this must be made clear at the start with signs etc - a "code of respect" for the clients). If people can't don't respect others particularly those who are helping them they have to be taught it the hard way. as for the rave scene, sadly things have got very bad in London and even in the Thames Valley (perhaps because the local cops closed down most of the city centre commercial clubs and forced the townies to our raves). The misogynistic nature of some genres of urban music does not help matters. A lot of girls from my area report being persistently harrassed at raves (despite being with their boyfriends) - and there has been worse stuff like actuallassaults or attempted assaults. Some of the girls have stopped going because of these problems; others have found themselves having to be a lot colder and less friendly towards blokes because of this. It got to the stage where I warned my own sister off attending raves (although she doesn't really like the music that much). Last edited by General Lighting; 14-09-2005 at 04:22 PM..
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#22
14-09-2005, 05:13 PM
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Yeah... i can see the reasoning there, sometimes things are best forgotten, but it's just, i don't know... i think guilt is the worst emotion possible... and for me to feel guilty because someone else action is just unforgivable... i bet it must of been a right horrible time for you, and oh god, just the paranoia that someone else might of said something would of just killed me... I'm not the type of person to hide anything...i don't really get intimidated by any situation and worse still a negitive situation doesn't make me back off...
You know what... you probally made the best choice for that point in your relationship and i'm so glad to hear he took it well whenyou told him... must of been a massive relief! Admittedly at one point... i was doing club parties and i know it's bad but yes... i've got nothing to hide... i did use all the tricks that i had or have to pull them off but i never lied and i was blatent about my motives... But thats business... i wanted the best deals possible and everyone was after something and sex sells... not that i was selling myself but... getting the girls to skimp it up didn't hurt! Yep that how i would love it... equal footings... now... where do i find males who are prepared for that...? or that could commit to that... Just FRIENDS! Maybe it's just my age... I'm stuck in limbo land... no longer a teenager or younge person... just someone that desprate to bemid 30's... everyone in there mid 30's always seem more chilled and relaxed... younger they just seem desperate for something but they don't know what and by 30's, i think people just learn how to be content? And security at work? not a chance.... Guards... i don't work for the Government or anything to do with them... i see them more as an arch enermy that won't let me be free... the camera's that don't work... but we have panic buttons... (which everytime they go off, they always take the piss and ask if i've given a client a stroke again... NOT FUNNY!) i reckon they class me as there little pit bull, but bless them they do all mother me!... i do tend to deal with all the ones that gob off, purly because i don't think the older advisers need the shit, some jumped up twat in there face! it's not right... and yeah, they should be nicer and calmer but there not, we have an open door policy and if people are drunk on drugs or mental ill... we don't turn anyone away for any reason, we DON'T discriminate... i know and accepted the job how it is and i so love it, everything the place stands for is the reason that i'm there... Sad but i've just have to accept that when you met people or especially when they come to work they've been all around the houses and not offered any help... they've got angery and have been brooding on it for a while... then before they get some help from us they usually have about a half hour to hour wait... contact with any government organisation can leave someone depressed for months so i can deal with the publics attitude problems... Just dis-connect... i'll just poke them in the eye... JOKE, i couldn't or we'd get sued! I so agree things are sad how they stand... most people will class there selfs more important than everything and anything else... and i think that where there's a major difference for say 50 years ago... There life is always worse than the next persons! It's a sad day when girls can't go out without feeling defensive... i'd just say maybe tight groups and networks... i tend to stick to the house parties here one reason for that is that you know almost everyone... and if you on't then people are always checking things are fine... almost like a family... if i'm out dancing and someone comes to dance with me, thats cool cause i know that in 5/10 mins someone i know is keeping an eye and will come over and have a dance and chat to check the situation out... sounds too much but it's done in such a relaxed and chilled way that noone would know what was happening... Yeah my brothers banned me from going out with out them... depressing... but i still sneak out 
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#23
14-09-2005, 07:59 PM
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for your workplace it I can't help but think that your employers are failing in their duty of care towards both staff and clients (after all if you can gently dissuade a client from violence that may also keep them out of prison or the mental home). They may be OK in other respects. but "just OK" is never good enough.
I do have a very strong zero tolerance view about violence against staff in the caring profession or public sector staff in general -I have myself been through bad times in my life where I have had dealings with NHS mental health people and also emergency medical treatment; and there have been problems and delays but I also appreciate the stresses they are under. Those cameras should work, and they should be linked to a timecoded recorder; and there should be funding available for this. If cops can use this technology to stop raves and wider society doesn't mind I don't see a problem with this being used to ensure people in the caring professions are being treated with the respect they deserve. If the panic button goes off your colleagues have no right to make comments like this. They would be disciplined in many other healthcare facilities for that and rightly so. Having a half-hour wait for treatment or even previous bad experiences are no excuse whatsoever for aggression or violence against the staff trying to help them. People just do not realise how lucky they are in Britain that this treatment is even available, in other countries they would be thrown on the scrap heap or put in jail (after a solid kicking from the cops) if they start kicking off at staff in healthcare facilities. Security guards, however, need not be wannabe cops or hitlers. A couple of friends work in the security industry (as normal guards, not bouncers) and they are top people who like a party or two. In a healthcare facility they should not go in heavy but defuse a situation and calm people down. the sort of person who would work well here would possibly be someone new to the country themselves ; perhaps a refugee himself from war or conflict who may even be able to emphathise with the patient. the mid 30s? I'm at that age but I do think its simply a time when people downsize a lot of their ambitions and accept their lot in life - or at least become more receptive to being part of a society or a family rather than an individual - otherwise they (particularly blokes) will be thrown on the scrap heap as society can't deal with them. as for the problems facing women at parties - sadly its IMO a problem which has definitely got worse due to a male backlash against feminism and womens' increasing power in some sections of society; its also linked with increasing racism and violence in the streets Young males (of all colours and origins) are feeling put upon as their traditional roles in society (particularly as manual or knowledge workers) are being eroded (even more intelligent males are finding their positions threatened due to globlisation and outsourcing of tech jobs) and sadly too many of them are responding with aggression as thats all they've got left when the hope and happiness have gone. I don't think things are any worse than the early 1980s though (although there were riots in the streets and massive racial violence/gender tension) - the only thing I think we can do is use sites like this to try and spread a more positive form of lifestyle - before things get too late and streets start burning once more (leading to yet another government clampdown)
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#24
14-09-2005, 09:28 PM
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I so believe things are supposed to be balanced... but when i think of society as a hole... well other than the fact it's just depressing there's not much of a chance of change when people are constantly brain washed, humans seem to enjoy complaining but not actually trying to do something constructive about it...
A while ago i was complaining about single mothers / fathers and childcare charges... why does life always seem like a trap? catch 21 or 22 what ever it is, where ever you turn? I love problem solving... my solution... Setting up a childcare center where single mothers/ fathers train to get qualified while still being able to take care of their own child or children at the same time... giving people more of a chance of change and improvement... more options in life! I so swear... i stalked my manager at work and just went on and on, (he thinks i'm funny in the head)... but he's now looking into funding and getting it set up... Another project was getting the youths of the streets and out of the way of these control freaks who just want to hit them with ASBOs... get them trained up and qualified... give them a chance... I know that people say that it only takes one person to make a change... fair enough... but i think that one person just come up with the idea... i used to believe that... but damn, it's so got to be a group effort... thats why i work where i work... they can make changes and put people under pressure, make them do what's right, completely independent from the government but they have their respect, any social policy issue is picked up by us and hopeful in time change to improve peoples standard of living... there's always some that fall between the cracks, we try to make sure they don't... and to have them on my side and working with me... i know the route i'm taking.... Believe me... they do as much as they can... sometimes you can't ask to much when the money they get goes back to the community one way or another... To me, it's a great place... that great that i work there for free.... asking for perfection is like demanding the impossible. And the clients that are upset and well at time a nightmare... sometimes, yes, they do have mental problems that no one else has picked up on or accepted responsibility to help them.... Thats what we do... help no matter what... to an extent... but it would take something major to stop me and on the other hand of it... sometimes you get the sweetest old person, who just hangs about... i sneak them a cuppa, they have some amazing stories... there's so many more bonus's... to me to put a smile on someones face is reason enough! At times i feel we have no society,... just people... i've seen countries that have communities and society's... they have not much more than just that but the way the live and are is... well pure magic, inspirational I've always said all i'd need to be happy is smoke and tea... and the thought or knowledge all i care about are well and thats my paradise... oh, oh well... maybe one more thing...oh damn, well i just... can't live without music can you? Bless you sugar... so sweet and passionate... i can totally understand where your coming from and yes, absolutly hun... your right every time, you've only talked logic and sense... i can't pick holes in anything you've said... but i so believe in compassion, communication, commitment, understanding and support that i can't contemplate such a harsh view or line? Why do you think society can't deal with men in there mid 30's 40's to say their thrown on the scrap heap... something brought you to that conclusion? I was born in 79 so i pretty much missed most of that...!? But i would say that the racial, sexual discrimination stuff thing... even as there might be a problem now i still think it has so improved or at least people are more open about what they think and it's just mainly crap the media want you to believe and chat about... have thoughts and feelings on to create issues that hide the really problems of the country. But then again i don't know nothing... i live in my own little world in my head.... now watch... next thing i know, someone will be banging on my door to put me in one of those sweet little white jackets with strips, in a padded white cell.... i need drugging up to be controlled in this big brother world. Yeah i think young lads get it rough too... always pushed and put under pressure... and always expected to be able to handle it... everyone forget that were all, every single one of us... ONLY human, we have the same emotions... even better, we're god damn animals... taken out of our usually habitats and expected to deal with a world of crap... all the bricks and concrete.... crap air... My word, it's amusing...  it's not natural is it... we're all pretending to be civilised when we're nothing more then animals... it's a global "Faking It"... you seen that program? the whole bloody world pretending it's means something but on a larger scale, we're just a dot! less than... nothing you know!With that thought in mind i so don't see why people care.... I've got to go... no way... major case of hysterics... amusing   SORRY!!!
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#25
15-09-2005, 11:19 AM
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retraining single parents to run a creche and to share childcare seems like an excellent idea - out all the ravers I know who are parents (a fair number, nowadays) I only know of one who is in what I would call a conventional family with both parents present -
(one question though, what do you do about people who won't "clear" a CRB check? Of course you someone with a history of domestic violence or other violent crime is not acceptable; but you are surely going to get a lot of people who have been involved in minor criminality like shoplifiting or drugs posession; even a caution comes up on the declarations needed for childcare... on the same note (as far as personal safety is concerned) - perhaps an ex-client with the right personality whom you and all the other staff can trust could be the security guard! I fully understand progressive minded people do not like the idea of CCTV, guards and uniform (although he/she need not actually wear one) but a person like that would be just right IMO as they would themselves know the score! I do think people should be given a few chances in society but not an indefinite amount; once they do something that harms another the NHS or HMP must take them away from society until they are rehabilitated; or detain them indefinitely if they cannot be rehabilitated. Sadly not everyone can be helped we used to get a couple of the local homeless chaps to do casual security work at our raves and parties and they were excellent at it... as for why 30-40 year old men are often thrown on the scrap heap I think its simple demographics. There are more men than women in most countries; and societies norms still expect that men are supposed to be married, fathers and in stable jobs by then providing for their kids; yet men either don't want to do this (I definitely do not want to be a father) - or if they do they can't get jobs, or have money problems which destroy their relationships and split the family.... in older days many of the angry young men were culled out by going to war. However you don't see that many lads itching to go to Iraq today; if they want to start a fight with "foreigners" they can do so on the streets of Britain, without the hassles of uniform, marching, discipline etc - or just fight amongst themseves. (of course they don't always get killed that way, and therefore continue to present a social problem as their anger increases, or they are not caught and detained/re-educated......) also men who do not have the stability of family or relationships can often handle lonleliness really well; but with no stake in society and an individual lifestyle theres nothing keeping someone from "criminal" behaviour, other than the threat of arrest or prison. Life can however become cheap or pointless and this is borne out in the nature of violent crime today... as for society itself, I really do think the divisions are a major problem (see my comment on thread on the US bust of a licensed event). I don't think however there is a big "conspiracy" from tony blair or dubya or any world leader to control people / stop raves, a Goverments desire to control is openly declared (at least in this country - its amazing what HMG put on the public internet) as that is its role. much of the desire for social control comes for a local level in society, middle englanders etc. there are now serious divisions amongst sections of society [particularly different cultures and generations] as to how much control is acceptable; and as no one is prepared to negotiate (British people are actually very stubborn rather than "spineless") its turning into a battle. I regularly use the term "major civil conflict" nowadays and these are not words I use lightly.
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