Katie: my beautiful face

[Tank Girl]

did anyone else watch this ?

what a courageous and brave woman, I think her inner strength is obvious, and coming from such an strong and supportive family has been her saving grace - but it also saddened me to see her 'down days'.

made me cry to watch her anxiety at going out alone for the first time since the attack, but hope she manages to find happiness and peace.

Defo worth a watch, her capacity to cope is immense

Katie was young and beautiful. A model and budding TV presenter, the 24-year-old had a glowing future ahead of her. But in 2008 a vicious acid attack destroyed her face, and with it her career and her life as she knew it.

More than a year on, and having undergone countless operations and rounds of physiotherapy, she has now chosen to give up her anonymity and tell her own story for the first time.

Including CCTV footage of the attack, this remarkable Cutting Edge film follows Katie as she undergoes pioneering treatment and attempts to re-build her life, while two men stand trial for the horrific assault.

In the film Katie bravely tells her story with compelling frankness, surprising humour and an extraordinary lack of self-pity as she tries to come to terms with losing her beauty and starting a new life with a new face.

Katie: My Beautiful Face - Katie: My Beautiful Face - Channel 4

[1984]

yeah I saw it. She's still quite fit. Horrible thing to happen to someone. I wonder what abuse the men had suffered in the past to make them do that. Made me cry rather a lot.

[General Lighting]

I don't watch telly but had been following this case since the initial crime report in 2008, when it wasn't divulged that Katie Piper was the victim. Long before the telly show was made the attackers had already been caught (thanks to the CCTV schemes across London!)

Unfortunately I doubt that her obsessive former partner has suffered any "abuse", more that he is genuinely pure scum. He didn't even carry out the attack himself, but manipulated someone else what appears to be a drug addict with learning difficulties and (significantly) a prominent birthmark or skin condition on his own face to carry out the deed. (this is a tactic also used by terrorist groups including Al-Quaeda).

There are plenty of people who have bad things happen to him and don't respond to it by destroying others lives but sadly there are lots of men around like that these days. They are physically strong but mentally insecure and react very badly to rejection or anyone disagreeing with them, and are the cause of many violent incidents across the UK.

The attacker was a former MMA cage fighter - usually training in the Essex region. His club have obviously disowned him - but blokes who trained with him were shocked and didn't think he was capable of such an attack - he came across as "quiet and focused" (although I think those types are in denial of the misogyny of some involved with these macho sports)

Sadly because of his strength I doubt he will suffer much physically in prison, he is more likely to be a bully himself and enjoy the fights he gets into and very likely to win them - this has happens with a lot of very nasty people in Cat A prisons and also secure hospitals such as Broadmoor and Rampton, basically they use HMP as their own private gym and "fight club" and show no remorse, which is why I feel that whilst we shouldn't reintroduce the death penalty a lot of minimum tarrifs should be longer so violent criminals lose their entire youth and middle age to the prison service. Perhaps also denial of access to the gym and being forced to do something like gender studies in education classes, though it might take a fair few screws and a taser to enforce this!

in his case solitary confinment, random shifting of prisons "for safety reasons" and denial of family visits (as much as possible without getting busted for "human rights") would be a good idea. Its a shame the NHS can't sue him as well for the cost of Katie's treatment, even if its a token gesture like selling his car and flat contents....

Hopefully will also discourage women from getting with overly "macho" types who turn out to be controlling, particularly steroid users who can have serious mood swings...

Good to see a British Asian from a Muslim background (Dr Mohammad Jawad) being shown in a positive light by the media as well! Apparently he was very emotionally affected, he's probably very aware of such attacks in the Middle East and South Asia (where they are depressingly common) and I expect he might have immigrated to England thinking "that sort of thing doesn't happen in this country.."

[1984]

"Unfortunately I doubt that her obsessive former partner has suffered any "abuse", more that he is genuinely pure scum"

I couldn't disagree more. But I guess its easy for society to deal with things if people are just born "scum". Luckily psychology is growing in strength, scientific approaches taken to the mind.

"in his case solitary confinement, random shifting of prisons "for safety reasons" and denial of family visits (as much as possible without getting busted for "human rights") would be a good idea"

yes, let us torture him as much as possible, perhaps if we send him totally insane in solitary confinement and then perhaps rip off his toe nails we will all feel better...

What the hell is wrong with humanity, no wonder we seem to spend the majority of history killing each other.

[General Lighting]

Originally posted by 1984

"Unfortunately I doubt that her obsessive former partner has suffered any "abuse", more that he is genuinely pure scum"

I couldn't disagree more. But I guess its easy for society to deal with things if people are just born "scum". Luckily psychology is growing in strength, scientific approaches taken to the mind.

its not much good if society doesn't get there quickly enough to protect people - again it would have been better if he had been nicked and detained / treated before having a chance to carry out the attack. This does highlight how inadequate the response to domestic violence is particularly amongst younger people, to be fair the Police are trying to do much better than previously but of course stuff like drugs prohibition makes people anti-Police...

"in his case solitary confinement, random shifting of prisons "for safety reasons" and denial of family visits (as much as possible without getting busted for "human rights") would be a good idea"

yes, let us torture him as much as possible, perhaps if we send him totally insane in solitary confinement and then perhaps rip off his toe nails we will all feel better...

I'm thinking more of protecting the other inmates and staff - this is a physically strong man who can do a lot of damage, who has not shown any remorse. Katie Piper also said he had even contacted her from HMP after the attack, having smuggled in a mobile phone (forbidden under prison rules). Also if he stays in one slammer for too long particularly with his history the rest of the hard men will try and have a pop at him, but he also has "friends" (how else did he get the phone though?), and that makes the whole prison unsafe for everybody.

And yes I do positively think he shouldn't get an easy ride in prison. There are times when one man's human rights are overriden by the need to protect others, especially when he has refused to respect others rights. if he can't handle the punishment and self-harms or even takes his own life well I will be blunt about it and say I have no sympathy whatsoever. It wll save taxpayers a lot of money. This isn't someone who just nicked a car or sold 500 pills..

That said my only objection to the death penalty is a pragmatic one, firstly due to the risks of miscarriages of justice and the wrong person being nicked, and secondly that its use often expands from murder and rape to drug dealing (as shown in Asia).

[Tank Girl]

I dont doubt the guy has severe issues - but lets not forget he violently raped her over several hours as she was too tired to have sex (he also got done for this), organised a premeditated violent assault and has psychologically and physically scared her for the rest of her life.
She has had to endure something like 29 opperations and daily painful daily treatment, and no doubt more opperations in the future - it has also impacted on the whole family - with her mum giving up work to care for her - and even if she can work through the mental scaring she unfortunatley has a permenant daily reminder in her physical appearance and probably has to suffer more abuse / looks from others as she bravely starts returning to society.

You can not excuse or rationalise such violent actions - he has and had responsibility to walk away, seek help himself etc but he choose not to. He chose to act as he did, therefore he has to take responsibility for this.
I'm not advocating he is then treated inhumanley his actions can not be excused

[General Lighting]

Originally posted by Tank Girl

You can not excuse or rationalise such violent actions - he has and had responsibility to walk away, seek help himself etc but he choose not to. He chose to act as he did, therefore he has to take responsibility for this.
I'm not advocating he is then treated inhumanley his actions can not be excused

Although this incident is very extreme I think the situation is a lot bleaker - there are a lot of controlling men around these days, who either are violent towards women or other men, and that attitude is being passed down through the genrerations. The aftermath of the Ipswich prostitute murders and the nightclub shooting in 2006 brought this under the spotlight in my area.

the man does need very close scrutiny. I know its a bit stereotypical but he is a big angry guy and when he gets desparate he might not just want women for his sexual gratification.... Other inmates could be in danger from him. Another reason for making this man's VO's more "difficult" would be to punish him for getting the phone into jail - again I bet he bullied some young lad into plugging it

[Tank Girl]

Originally posted by General Lighting

Although this incident is very extreme I think the situation is a lot bleaker - there are a lot of controlling men around these days, who either are violent towards women or other men, and that attitude is being passed down through the genrerations. The aftermath of the Ipswich prostitute murders and the nightclub shooting in 2006 brought this under the spotlight in my area.

the man does need very close scrutiny. I know its a bit stereotypical but he is a big angry guy and when he gets desparate he might not just want women for his sexual gratification.... Other inmates could be in danger from him. Another reason for making this man's VO's more "difficult" would be to punish him for getting the phone into jail - again I bet he bullied some young lad into plugging it

completely agree - this is an extreme incident - but I see domestic abuse daily, and not just physical - but sexual and emotional. the police are now using the vulnerable adults policy more frequently and they're working closley with women and male refuges and support networks - as it isnt always men who are perpetrators!

They are also taking it as a serious crime - where as before it was more of a hidden (behind closed doors) thing.

however its not a simple issue - and often partners are so scarred they go back - and at times are eventually killed by their partner - despite knowing this is a risk they take - but are so messed up themselves - used to violence / extremes of emotion this is normal behaviour for them -

and this is what I meant in the first post about her being lucky as coming from a seemingly stable family back ground - she is prob more grounded than a lot of people who end up in similar situations and often dont have anyone else apart from this violent partner and are completely alone.....

Phone issues in prison - they are rife, if its not plugged - you just buy one off a guard - easy as.

[General Lighting]

Originally posted by Tank Girl

completely agree - this is an extreme incident - but I see domestic abuse daily, and not just physical - but sexual and emotional. the police are now using the vulnerable adults policy more frequently and they're working closley with women and male refuges and support networks - as it isnt always men who are perpetrators!

They are also taking it as a serious crime - where as before it was more of a hidden (behind closed doors) thing.

Its a really bad problem across this region and sadly it affects people on "alternative" crowds like the rave scene more as traditionally they don't like dealing with the Police. Serious physical abuse is actually rare but controlling behaviour certainly isn't and a lot of people, even "normal folk" just snap when a relationship ends.

In the village I work in CID are up there so often dealing with the aftermath of domestics the Openreach engineer had to put a filter on our phone line because their airwave radios otherwise interfere with our broadband! There's a 300% increase in violent crime on the crime maps almost entirely because of domestics, yet on the "rough" working class estate I live in its only 70% increase..

Phone issues in prison - they are rife, if its not plugged - you just buy one off a guard - easy as.

even more reason for HMP to treat this very seriously - I could understand a young screw getting a phone for a drug dealer - I still think they should be removed from service but would forgive them, but it is ominous when staff empathise with genuinely dangerous inmates like that to the point of breaking the rules...

[CozMik]

the fuckers who did it should have got acid thrown right back in there faces

[General Lighting]

Originally posted by Cosmic_Energy

the fuckers who did it should have got acid thrown right back in there faces

thats actually how they deal with it in many of the nations with Sharia law, particularly Taliban controlled Afghanistan..

[DJCliffy]

The bloke who done that to her is pure scum. Fuck his human rights or whatever happened to him in the past. He practically ruined this poor girls life so i feel no compassion for him whatsoever.

I sincerely hope someone makes him their bitch in prison and or shanks him, the fucking c*nt.

Respect to the woman in question though. Makes me sad that there are people like this in the world and makes me think if they act like this then lock em up forever. Might not be the answer but at least it's one less nut job off our streets.

Although then again we should respect his (acid thrower) human rights and make sure no harm comes to him. Bollocks to the victim, it's the offender we should care for.

[General Lighting]

Originally posted by DJCliffy

The bloke who done that to her is pure scum. Fuck his human rights or whatever happened to him in the past. He practically ruined this poor girls life so i feel no compassion for him whatsoever.

I sincerely hope someone makes him their bitch in prison and or shanks him, the fucking c*nt.

I think he (the ex-boyfriend) should be locked away in a isolated area as given his previous and physical strength unfortunately there's much more risk he will do harm to others, even those what could easily match him in a fight. the way HMP run's he's more likely to make some unfortunate lad his bitch with the collusion of the screws... remember he didn't even throw the acid himself but bullied the other younger lad into doing this.

Can't help but think he's worthless as a human being but his healthy strong body could provide a lot of transplant organs for the NHS, and I'm sure there are some diseases black people get more and a shortage of transplant organs. Problem is if we started doing stuff like this it would end up with people like political dissidents and drug users being culled for their organs - OK a k-heads kidneys and internal organs aren't good for much (wouldn't even pass the Defra tests for cat food!) but theres stuff like skin and corneas what are still useful..

[DJCliffy]

They do that in China don't they? Once a condemned crim gets shanked they harvest their organs? I don't think i'd like that. You'd get a heart but you'd get possessed by the original owner. Fuck that shit.

I have an actual brilliant solution for violent offenders. Bring back Gladiator fights.

[General Lighting]

Originally posted by DJCliffy

They do that in China don't they? Once a condemned crim gets shanked they harvest their organs? I don't think i'd like that. You'd get a heart but you'd get possessed by the original owner. Fuck that shit.

they do, and the organs are currently sold on the commercial market - China doesn't have an NHS-type service yet (it will be interesting to see if they or the USA implement one first!)

Transplanted internal organs do not affect the personality of the recipient - the only risks are of rejection which are dealt with medical/biological stuff.. (dodgy horror movies are not a very good source of science education )

I hope I never need any organ transplants but I wouldn't be too fussy about where it came from if I did..

[DJCliffy]

Originally posted by General Lighting

Transplanted internal organs do not affect the personality of the recipient - the only risks are of rejection which are dealt with medical/biological stuff.. (dodgy horror movies are not a very good source of science education )

But they have taught us so much.

[General Lighting]

TBH I think despite her recovery I don't think there's much of a bright side in this - the scum has made everyone lose. He's cost her her modelling career, he's cost the NHS thousands of pounds and no amount of prison time or even his death or torture would avenge things or pay back society.

the only thing what could make this good is maybe if a 12 or 13 year old girl watches this and when her boyfriend starts being aggressive/controlling (as even lads of that age group are now doing) she ends the relationship right away and tells both her parents and maybe the Police - OK it means a young man may get criminalised but an early intervention like that may genuinely make him change his ways.

before my mum emigrated she taught at middle school age and she was shocked with how much harrasment girls aged 12-15 were being subjected to from their own age groups...

[DJCliffy]

I seriously hate pricks who beat on their woman. It angers me when i hear about this sort of abuse as it's quite a close subject for me.

[General Lighting]

Originally posted by DJCliffy

I seriously hate pricks who beat on their woman. It angers me when i hear about this sort of abuse as it's quite a close subject for me.

in my age group nearly every girl/woman I meet (including younger ones in their 20s and late teens!) seems to have had at least one abusive partner and many are seriously emotionally damaged by their thirties.. it has got a lot worse, as when I was a teen in the 80s domestic violence amongst our age group was virtually unheard of, sexism and racism were uncool.. now you've got people openly saying that women should be "kept in their place" and meaning it, as well as supporting BNP and other forms of racism and intolerance...

I feel its like 25 years of social progress have been chucked out of the window in the last few years and its got worse with the recession. The East is slightly more "backward" than London/SE sometimes but its not that far behind TBH (and London/SE is getting worse)

[DJCliffy]

Originally posted by General Lighting

in my age group nearly every girl/woman I meet (including younger ones in their 20s and late teens!) seems to have had at least one abusive partner and many are seriously emotionally damaged by their thirties.. it has got a lot worse, as when I was a teen in the 80s domestic violence amongst our age group was virtually unheard of, sexism and racism were uncool.. now you've got people openly saying that women should be "kept in their place" and meaning it, as well as supporting BNP and other forms of racism and intolerance...

I feel its like 25 years of social progress have been chucked out of the window in the last few years and its got worse with the recession. The East is slightly more "backward" than London/SE sometimes but its not that far behind TBH (and London/SE is getting worse)

Man it is pretty bad.

[Tank Girl]

I think one of the worst issues these days really is the lack of family / extended family - support, discipline and morals - I know it sounds really old fashioned views but if there is no support or structure in the family home - how do we expect it to be in society?

- we are all so hung up on working full time to pay the rent / bills / life and farming the kids out to child carers / nursery,
or not having support ourselves to help with childcare issues due to prehaps a relationship breakdown and therefore unable to work - and loosing self respect / self esteem etc which will impact on our relationship with our child,

or high levels of disfunctional relationships and no support for them to go to - to escape / leave, and so the child is witnessing stuff that they really shouldnt be subjected to

or adults so damaged by their own upbringing that being in a dysfunctional relationship is normal and comfortable, as this is all they are used to - and maybe dont even realise it is dysfunctional and abuisive.

or not having had that support yourself and having a child and really starting from scratch trying to work out yourself what good parenting skills are...

or the over bearing over protective parents who dont allow their children to grow, learn responsibility or develope

therfore insecure children are growing up into adults and lacking support / boundaries and the pattern is repeated again and again

(I read alot of Oliver James / Winicott / family therapy etc about family dynamics and how they impact on childrens earlydevelopement)

the thought of having children and the responsibility sounrounding it is terrifying - but really needs to be discussed between partners before (IMO) they decide to bring a child in to this world... there obviously is no right or wrong code and we all make mistakes, and inorder to learn mistakes need to be made, and I can only talk about my views from what I see and read, but this is something I see happening time and time again - and usually unfortunatley repeated in patterns, we can only go from our experiences and if they arnt good its very difficult to change

and in this particular case - she seemed to have real regreat for not reporting the rape - as the impression I got was if she had maybe the acid attack might not have happened - but the girl was terrified for her life - due to the threats he had made, and also spoke of trying to explain the situation - ie, as if it was somehow her fault for going to the hotel with him - which is completley irrational thinking but when your that frightened and traumatised you dont always think rationally - I think (and maybe slightly out figures ) but 15000 rapes were reported (and how many wernt??) and only 995 resulted in convictions - when you see these figures - it puts alot of women off off reporting or they do report and retract as they dont want to re-live the abuse again in the courtroom especially when there is poor previous evidence that it will definatley result in a conviction...

very emotive issues

[General Lighting]

A while back I once advised a girl who had suffered a potential drug assisted sex assault at an illegal rave in London to call a Metpol Operation Sapphire unit but no one there picked up the phone - TBH I expect its because the officers on the unit were deployed out on other patrols but it also shows how overloaded they are, and it defeats the object of having the sapphire unit if they can't answer calls

[General Lighting]

Originally posted by DJCliffy

Man it is pretty bad.

it really has got worse recently, I'm not that old but still think times were genuinely better when I was josh's age in the late 80s or even as recently as 1999 compared to today, and as I've been interested in politics and criminology for nearly 20 years I know it isn't rose tinted specs looking on half-remembered drug-addled days..

Its become like the 1970s but worse, people are behaving in a worse way than 30 years ago towards each other. Blokes feel that violence is an acceptable way of sorting out things, girls look for blokes with money/muscles/cars even if they are complete scum and only realise this when its way too late.

And if people are assertive towards bullies and there aren't any cops or surveillance presence to make bullies wary of being caught then they are often simply overpowered with raw aggression.

the only good thing today is the cops and forensics are way smarter than "Life on Mars" times, and scum get caught eventually, unlike in the 70s when they got away with it, as "hard men" often thought even murder was trivial and didn't grass.

Today a cold case came up on the crime news from the border of Essex and Hertspol, a 39 year old woman was strangled in 1974 after answering and ad for modelling and meeting up several times with a "photographer" who had gained her confidence

Josephine Backshall

this is a better picture of her car. In the 1970s it was still less likely for women to drive, let alone to own this rather flash Ford Cortina Mark III - but her attacker convinced her to leave this motor in the car park and go in his car and thus he took control of her..



http://www.eadt.co.uk/content/eadt/n...A58%3A42%3A870

and today there have been 4 bodies found in EA. At least two of them are victims of a serious domestic argument.

As far as normal society goes, we really have returned to "life on mars" days

[Tank Girl]

Originally posted by General Lighting

Blokes feel that violence is an acceptable way of sorting out things, girls look for blokes with money/muscles/cars even if they are complete scum and only realise this when its way too late.

some men and some women -

not all -

lets not forget there still are good people in society, who are looking after their families and trying to do good for themsleves and others. unfortunaltey we dont hear about them as they dont tend to make the news / statistic reports .....

[Soul glow Bro]

Originally posted by General Lighting

thats actually how they deal with it in many of the nations with Sharia law, particularly Taliban controlled Afghanistan..

yeah, and Women in parts of Jamaica have a bucket of Acid ready for any Intruders..
(remembers watching Jamaican ER.)
That bastard deerves it.