Getting illegal parties legalised?

[USE]

the french have done it, so why cant we?

if we got organised about this, we could form a pretty decent lobby group, alongside some of the heads from squatjuice, and make the case for legalising them.

if we could sort out rubbish collection, site allocation and toilets, i recon that would be half the battle. thereis the drugs issue, but clubs are legal, and as long as it isnt to blatant they stay open.

check out this beast from gerard la rouge off sj:

19 tons lorry decorated as a giant fly

5 meters of urinal, 6 cabins all decorated by a different artist

non stop air-freshener, dedicated cleaning staff, free tea & coffee, 3kw sound system and video projection on the roof.

http://www.moniclamouche.com/

Monique la mouche can be found at festival across europe every summers, she's not scared of teknival.

You only need to pay for her travel and provide food & drinks to the staff.

You also need to provide running water and 3 16A lines.

[DJ FATTMAN]

yeah it would b cool dude to get it legalized. All we need is sites around the UK which can be designated to us. Then if we leave the sites in a total mess then they could remove it from the list if it persists then we wouldnt hav ne sites left and there would b no one to blame other than ourselves. U can c at most raves that the party people are up for keepin the area clean. I find cleanin up is like a disease, once some1 see's some1 start litter picking duty every1 else joins in. But every1 knows wot our governtment is like instead of tackling it by bringing it into the open and givin areas for us to do this they just push us further underground makin out like we dont exist until we hav a party.

[USE]

yer, i just found out that they arent properly legal in france, only for the larger events.

this country has a much less cerebral tradition of law enforcement and legislation, tho.

never know until we try. i knocked up a press release for this site a while back, which never got used for fear of backlash, but its been deleted from the post it was in, prolly by the crash a week or so back. bollocks is all i can say.

we need to fight this battle on two fronts - media and legislative. we need to be promoting our scene in the press, and petitioning the government for tolerance over raves.

[DJ FATTMAN]

Originally posted by USE

. we need to be promoting our scene in the press

can we trust them to give a true look at the parties tho, or will they pick holes and use it against us by showing the other illegal activities which go on, such as drug dealing etc. every1 knows how well the press can blow things out of proportion.

[USE]

yer, thats why you dont wanna use mainstream press, at least at first. style mags and random undergound publications would be a good first step, as they arte the trend setters, and once they have deemed something to be a certain way, most other publications will follow suit.

at the end of the day, papers and mags exist to sell papers and mags, nowt else. they only bitch about raves coz it sells papers. if bigging raves up, and defending them sold papers, thats what they'll do.

[globalloon]

Originally posted by DJ FATTMAN

every1 knows how well the press can blow things out of proportion.

there have been a couple of positive pieces recently, but everytime a friendly piece gets pressed, I expect it provokes a nimby into action elsewhere...

for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction

and all that

i think the one of the best ways to make the scene more accessible is by doing our best to plan parties well and cause the minimum of damage or disruption and allow people to discover what it is all about gradually, without pushing... the more diverse the people who come to and enjoy free parties are, the more support we will win

[General Lighting]

There are indeed plenty of things we can learn from the French, however we must not make the same mistakes.

I have had a number of long discussions with a French chap from our area who has been involved in raves on both sides of the Channel.

sadly many Brits look across the channel upon the French scene with rose-tinted specs; I was guilty of doing so myself until I had been informed of the real facts.

There was indeed a time when the French Government were more tolerant of raves - perhaps 5 or 6 years ago. Indeed, one year the Culture Minister
even attended a techno parade in Paris!

Unfortunately, without the authorities hassling them the French rave crews did not deal with other issues affecting their scene; events were held and clean up not done properly, there was crime and violence at large teknivals (really nasty stuff, including girls being raped,surrounding villages being actually invaded, with houses being burgled and trashed).

it appears that many of the gains made by French ravers are now lost; the government permits less events than before and the environmental damage from previous events now causes the French Green party to oppose them - this year it was particularly snide as their environmentalists and other antis just stalled a lot of the licensing negotiations until the very last minute; and did not even alert people to the presence of the dangerous irritant caterpillars which caused many people health problems (a friend of mine who was attacked by them remains in a poor state of health :( )

Those events which are attempted without authorisation are broken up violently by cops, Gendarmes and apparently even the regular Army.

[USE]

shazbart. thats mental. and not gonna do our case too much good. if we bring up france, that is what the press and govt will bring up.

if we could sort out just one massive rave that proved that we can do it properly without polluting or scaring or owt, and we documented it properly, i recon it would be a good foundation to build off, if nothing else.

if i hadnt quit my job last week, i wouldnt have been too skint to go to the tek, and i would have distributed that leaflet i knocked up about good rave guide, and filmed its light side for the data banks. i really need to pull my finger oput.im getting frustrated by being skint and stranded. have an interveiw tomoz tho. wish me luck!

having said that, the clean up did seem not bad (at least compared to steart beach!) and the locals weren't too pissed off. went pretty well, from what i gather.

[General Lighting]

Originally posted by USE

shazbart. thats mental. and not gonna do our case too much good. if we bring up france, that is what the press and govt will bring up.

the govt and the press will bring it up anyway.

we will need to be prepared to admit mistakes were made in France, and that they have been taken on board by UK crews to ensure the same mistakes will not be made here.

[USE]

yer, we need to put together some kind of well square and sensible document for the suits to read. long ting, but blatantly worth it. im not sure where to start, to tell the truth.

[General Lighting]

for information these are the govt departments who would be involved

DCMS (departmment for Culture Media and Sport) = overall PEL issues

Home Office = security/drugs/crime issues (incidentally they once had a "minister for raves!" but he resigned when the war started).

Defra (Department for Environment, Food and rural affairs) = access to open spaces, prevention of noise pollution etc

as well as the local authority for the area in which you are having your event

you would have to get all these officials talking and agreeing with each other.. and its an extra task when all these departments are being downsized....

OTOH I reckon the best argument is a financial one - it costs more to shut down a rave and to process people through the criminal justice system then to let it happen, also closing down these events destroys police-community relations and could potentially increase anti-social behaviour, binge drinking and addictive class A drug use,

stopping rave parties doesn't remove the demand for drugs; dealers will still operate but without the informal "policing by peer pressure" which occurs on the rave scene to often dissuade people from more problematic drug use patterns.

but you will have loads of shit from the antis and perhaps even licensed club promoters like mean fiddler - they may argue we paid loads of money, why should people do it for reduced cost/free?

[USE]

minister for raves? that would be great, i'd follow him around all day, whispering pro-rave sweet nothings in his ear.

departmment for Culture Media and Sport should prolly be our first call, work out what they want, and get their support and that would be a nice first step. if we can get them to beleive we are socially beneficial, thats a good start. the Home Office are bastards, totally corrupt and corporate. they will be the hardest, as they are traditionally all powerfull and deaf. not a good combo. Department for Environment, Food and rural affairs will need proof that we can stay within the limits, and that we have a genuine interest in the same things as they, and can be mostly self policing. that remains to be seen, tbh, but i live in hope.

your last point about mean fiddler is prolly the stickiest. they have a lot of clout and make a lot of money. they have their way of doin it and it works. to convince people to accept this new type of legal event, when mean fiddler is havbin words i the ears of newspaper editors, is gonna be a bastard.

from what gerarde has said on sj, he makes out that the rave community basically threatened their govt into legalising teks,as they will happen anyway, and its better if the authorities are kept in the loop for everyone's sake. i dont know how true that is, but i dont know that that would work here, as govt doesn't take kindly to threats. we are one atm, anyway, tho...

that was off the top of my head. im off to check out their sites and i'll be back.

[globalloon]

Originally posted by USE

from what gerarde has said on sj, he makes out that the rave community basically threatened their govt into legalising teks,as they will happen anyway, and its better if the authorities are kept in the loop for everyone's sake. i dont know how true that is, but i dont know that that would work here, as govt doesn't take kindly to threats. we are one atm, anyway, tho...

the 5th republic?

we haven't even managed to oust the royals, let alone threaten the govt with raving in their face

[USE]

surely there are more than four republics in the world atm? or do islamic and peoples republics not count?

the royals are just decoration, the primeminister writes the queens speech, so what else do they do, except visit foreign countries and embarrase us all?

just because we have a monarchy, doesn't mean we are primarily a monarchist state. the french got rid of their monarchy because they were trying to run the country, and being bastards about it. we just told ours to shut up, and they have.

if the queen had any clout, id be inviting her to our raves and writing her letters. my housemate wrote to the queen saying it was shit he got nicked for growing medicine nesseccary to his wellbeing (ganj) and she wrote back saying she'd look into it. and do what? fuck all.

[globalloon]

Originally posted by USE

surely there are more than four republics in the world

france currently has it's fith republic: 5 revolutions have occured and 5 constitutions written; so the current french system is known (to the french) as the 5th republic

what I meant was that the french are better at threatening their govt than we are (with strikes etc)

mind you, perhaps that's why there's three times more investment capital leaving france than entering france, and 10% unemployment.

[USE]

why are the british such sheep then?

[globalloon]

Originally posted by USE

why are the british such sheep then?

i don't think we baa, necessarily

i lived in france for a bit, and there wasn't the every-weekend-party with a few hundred people that happens here (not that i found around L'Herault, anyway)

i did go to a few very small, intimate, quality parties with up to about 100 people, and a couple of teks

i know which i preferred, but it seemed it was harder to have the former...

when les flics get heavy in france, they make our BIB look like prep school boys having a bun fight... the CRS are largely ex-french-foreign-legion

USE, i totally agree that some party organisers deserve more respect from society (press, media, OB, etc) but as long as there are plenty of ultimately destructive parties happening, we're always going to be on the defensive

i think there's a lot to do before anything like the de-criminalisation of fun happens in this country

[General Lighting]

to an extent the French are better at l'action directe

but that often means the opposition to the direct action from another group who do not agree is just as focused

for instance hippies might crack a squat and do loads of positive stuff with it - but then the local skinheads form a crew and evict them (not even because the owner asked them to, just because they want to fight their corner)

even my french friend (who is very liberal minded) said the strikes and protests are a fucking nightmare sometimes as people are so stubborn that the country can grind to a halt and nothing gets done - it also affects the economy, there is far worse unemployment and deprivation in France than in England

if the "proper" authorities are constantly having their hand forced by direct action it actually shows the country's government and society is unstable - and everyone will "have a go" (essentially what happens), not just liberal activists whom we like but also extreme right skinheads and violent criminals

ever wondered why in Britain we just have Police, whilst in France and other countries there are also Gendarmes?

As for Frenchtek, however good the party was it caused massive environmental pollution (shit was left everywhere) and caused 3 of my friends to require emergency medical treatment, either through violence or illness from the caterpillars (a situation which could have been avoided.)

I would hope any British event would not have such dire consequences, even if it meant it was smaller.

[General Lighting]

as for possible events in Britain, one way of stopping commercial promoters whinging would be to set up a "community event license" whereby the size of event and numbers attending were limited to perhaps a few thousand at most (about the size of the Guildford Ambient picnic or the Henley Come Together festival); thus removing any argument that we are destroying the market for large commercial festivals.

festivals also require input to the local emergency planning committee (extra paperwork/costs) because of security risks - the effort requires increases with the potential size of the event.

Unfortunately this isn't just Whitehall paranoia; a precedent has been set across the EU by the Russian incident in 2000/2001 where their summer festival was targeted by islamic suicide bombers (IEDs detonated without warning in the queue :( )

Closer to home there have also been disruptive challenges to Reading and Glastonbury by organised gangs of right-wing activists who claim that Vince Power has links with the IRA. - all sorts of mad stuff, one fake IED, organised fights on the dancefloor (foiled by the cops!), fence being cut to let in "hard men" etc, this operation co-ordinated using military radios "borrowed" from the local regiment (one of the scanner enthusiasts on the web heard all this and couldn't believe the frequency he was logging, it was clearly a MOD restricted access channel that a civillian could not easily buy a set for!)

With this in mind (and from bitter experience over 14 years of raving) I do not think it is as yet possible to hold a Frenchtek scale event in Great Britain - it would be a logistical and security nightmare which could easily result in tragedy, unless the place was crammed full of stewards and even old bill and you had metal detectors at entry and very robust security measures (which would obviously increase the costs and make it impossible to have a free event)

Organised disruption aside, with any large musical event you are bringing large numbers of mostly male-dominated groups together, and with a legal event you would have a larger proportion of "litten tree townies" who may not be used to free party culture; or may be taking large amounts of drugs for the first time ( and as we know, drugs don't always make everyone loved up)

All it would take would be a disagreement between two groups to escalate and things could get really dark - there is also that "fire in the belly" in all us men (even blokes like us who are liberal minded) which can so easily spill over into a lord of the flies scenario or mob rule... it happened at Leeds a few years back, at the 90s US Woodstock or for that matter the last Frenchtek where the English were attacked without warning following a minor dispute

but I think it would be within our capabilities to hold one or more smaller events without massive disruption or danger to anyone....

[USE]

i think what it would take is just one, exemplary, well documented and attended rave. i'm not sure that i could organise anything larger than 300-500 people rave without it being beyond my control (ish, as in i wouldnt be able to sort that much litter, or justify that much shit.). but thats the whole fun of freeparties, that they are under no control but work... to be fair, i think the tek seems pretty good prorave evidence, which we should use at a later date. i suspected that the tek might be a steart beach repeat, proper eco-disaster. glad to be wrong. ithink we can agree we should take on the media before we take on the government. i love getting ahead of myself.

im sick of being on the defensive, and i recon that if we divided the freeparty scene with some pigeon holes, it might not be a totally shit idea, as we could try and seperate the positive and negative raves in the public perception. of course, it might be a totally shit idea, im stoned. i need to get my personal shit together before i can sort out anythin els atm, just got a new job, our crew still needs its own van and genny, we cantg afford to keep hiring.

you're right we have a long way to go. just preparing for the future innit.

[General Lighting]

Originally posted by USE

i think what it would take is just one, exemplary, well documented and attended rave. i'm not sure that i could organise anything larger than 300-500 people rave without it being beyond my control (ish, as in i wouldnt be able to sort that much litter, or justify that much shit.). but thats the whole fun of freeparties, that they are under no control but work... to be fair, i think the tek seems pretty good prorave evidence, which we should use at a later date. i suspected that the tek might be a steart beach repeat, proper eco-disaster. glad to be wrong. ithink we can agree we should take on the media before we take on the government. i love getting ahead of myself.

the tek wasn't an eco disaster and went remarkably well for the numbers present (only 1 incident of violence which is on par with the smaller licensed festivals held in the SE)

but it still appeared to cause annoyance to the locals who complained to the cops, the council and BBC.

OTOH the councillor there had a rather disappointing and insular attitude towards visitors to his area; he called the ravers "intimidating" and I know for a fact none of the English attendees would have been in the slightest bit hostile to locals.

Furthermore, every month or so a lot of Welsh people descend upon Reading to attend the Rugby match at our local stadium.

They arrive at Reading station in some number waving the red dragon flags, and are often "boisterous" and "in drink".

But I do not find them in the slightest intimidating; they are merely going to watch a sporting event they enjoy and do not cause any other disruption or trouble. I certainly do not go whinging to the local council, TVP or BBC Radio Berkshire about their presence!

When they arrive here, they purchase items stuff from local shops and businesses - and the same would have applied to the tek (I am pleased to see that no one is boasting about "drive-offs", shoplifting and all the other stuff which gave old-skool ravers a bad name) - most every one of those vehicles would have filled up their tanks at least once the Welsh side of the Servern, and that is substantial revenue to the local economy..

im sick of being on the defensive, and i recon that if we divided the freeparty scene with some pigeon holes, it might not be a totally shit idea, as we could try and seperate the positive and negative raves in the public perception. of course, it might be a totally shit idea, im stoned.

I can appreciate your view - as your crew have only been involved in parties fairly recently, but sadly you are carrying the can for mistakes made many years ago. TBH the old skool ravers weren't as concious as today about the disruption and damage to the areas, because there were more potential venues and more places to run! We only got away with free parties because the cops didn't have enough resources to stop them, not because the locals thought they were a good thing....

Now we have to admit our mistakes and move on

Originally posted by USE

the french have done it, so why cant we?

if we got organised about this, we could form a pretty decent lobby group, alongside some of the heads from squatjuice, and make the case for legalising them.

if we could sort out rubbish collection, site allocation and toilets, i recon that would be half the battle. thereis the drugs issue, but clubs are legal, and as long as it isnt to blatant they stay open.

check out this beast from gerard la rouge off sj:

All we need to do is get 1000 ravers to say its their religion. then we need to decide who or what we worship. I.E music or sound waves. WE worship on sundays for example so raves could start a 12 n that would count. If they made fucking jedi a religion then ravin cant be much harder. Mean we prove that despit the laws, we want to continue with our cult. Why the fuck not turn it to a religion!!

[elraveon]

Hi use

the royals are just decoration, the primeminister writes the queens speech, so what else do they do, except visit foreign countries and embarrase us all?

just because we have a monarchy, doesn't mean we are primarily a monarchist state. the french got rid of their monarchy because they were trying to run the country, and being bastards about it. we just told ours to shut up, and they have.

if the queen had any clout, id be inviting her to our raves and writing her letters. my housemate wrote to the queen saying it was shit he got nicked for growing medicine nesseccary to his wellbeing (ganj) and she wrote back saying she'd look into it. and do what? fuck all.

the royals are more than decoration, they are wealthy land owners on extremely large tracts of land and they have extremely larges residences and life styles that our taxes maintain, they are heads of armies and in stringently involved in the oldest of secret societies.
The Queen is in a very influential position as head of the aristocracy which consists of large extended families that hold all the highest positions of the Civil Service, the judiciary the foreign office and the Police and in government and between them they own most of the land in the countryside and towns. The Queen is more than the head of a band of Gangsters and Robber Barons, she is the symbol of how crime can pay and is the head of the sickness that this country suffers. The denial that she has power.

You mention that the PM writes her speech and such but our Civil war that took much of the power of the King was not about freedom or liberty. Many people that took part in the civil war who believed that paid with their lives after the war. It was about spreading the right to govern the masses to the other influential upper classes.


There are many knock on problems that having an aristocracy cause us, the prices of land and houses, the amount of time we must spend to pay for a roof over the heads or the time we must spend away from families causing all sorts of problems regarding health and crime on the streets. The common view that they are a spent force and just decoration is why we are in this hole IMO and at each other over problems because we are in denial of their true power.

TBH you are going to get nowhere trying to get freedom to party if you don’t know the enemy you face.

[elraveon]

this thread starts with the question "getting raves legalised " and "the french have done it, so why cant we?"


this is a bit confusing and I think the question needs to be clearer.
Raves are legalized and licensed. I assume you mean Getting freeparties legalized but even so they are not illegal unless they are deemed so by a superintendent after considering the circumstances, which in itself is fair and I can see the arguments for him having the job, or they break the public entertainments act. The problem comes that some people in this country are more equal than others ;) , have more status and privilege and move in exclusive circles of power, its natural that they will use this influence and power and put pressure on the people in positions to stop a party or to pursue organizers for PEL violations.

People are animals, what makes us human is being held back by the animalistic behaviour of the pack, leaders and the herd, this mentality is not a safe way for humans to act and it is messing with our heads, anyway it’s the recipe and its trouble.

the problem of violent crime that worries GL cant be stopped by us from happening at a party, we can take measures to avoid some of it, we can react to it but we cant stop it because ultilmatly its a social problem.

Anyway I think that there is a greater problem to be sorted out and you are not going to get anywhere until it is. Tbh I think the problem will go away when the cause is sorted out and that’s where efforts should lie. :)

[USE]

nice one elraveon, of course you are right, the queen is an extremely influential person internationally, and is involved in all the "old boys" network and masons and merchant venturers etc, but in terms of affecting the passing of specific laws on british soil, i recon she either has no power or interest. yes she owns a shit load of britain, but i doubt she cares as long as she has more money than she can spend.

you are right that the aristocracy are the ruling body, in that they dictate laws as they are the most listened to, they control economics as they own so much land, buisness and spending power. the weird thing im finding at the mo is that its the house of lords, not commons, which is defending the common man, so im no longer sure that all the landed gentry are scum. if we could be allowed to communicate with them to try and reason with them to help others out, instead of rinsing all their stolen money on pussy and bentlys, then maybe they could be useful. but they are kept in their ivory towers, and we are separated from them on more levels than i could name.

anyhoo, so you clarify that some types of rave events are legal, and in fact what im suggesting isnt original, i mean look at the repercussions of the cja. lots of "sperclubs" which were designed to keep the ravers happy. of course they lasted about as long as a icecube in the microwave, because the powers that be saw what we did with the places, and most of the owners couldnt control the local mafias.

so, what i am on about, specifically, is getting legal outdoor event sites oked by the govt, which would be allowed to be used at certain times of year (mayday, halloween, solstice etc). what that could mean is that we could spend more time on the parties and less time worryin about the law. i thik this is a perfectly reasonable request, by the people of the nation to be able to use the land they are encouraged to use in the day, at night.

as far as i can see, the main problem would be with keepin the numbers down. most people dont go top raves because theyre pussys. look at fat boy slims fuckup on brighton beach.

bottom line, we have a right to use the land we live on, and teh reason why we arent is because teh two sides who need to talk it over, teh authorities and the rave crews, wont talk to each other. thats all i want. dialogue.