Dragon Festival 2009

[SU27FLANKER]

Originally posted by crs1138

Where is a border to your freedom? It is, where you are violating other people's freedom and guess wot it actualy makes you a fascist by doing that... So just think about it

Yeah, that's what I just said. Violating other people's freedom is not a kind thing to do and that is what the huge crowd of people, cars, turds, dogs, and cops do.The point is responsibility, there is NOTHING positive about the dragon as it is except that it is huge fun. Folk need to be honest about their pleasure. My point was that people were pretending that there were positive aspects to a massive uncontrolled piss up involving thousands in the dark and there just aren't. Those who enjoy the dragon need to be honest thats all . We enjoy ourselves at the expense of others. That is a fact. Most seem to be able to live with it. Let's just leave out the hypocrisy.

Go well, F

[bristol kt]

am i missing somthing? it was about this time last year when word came from the disorganisers that help was needed from the friends and family of the dragon. if the dragon was to continue then the issues of rubbish and sanitation needed to be dealt with, so we, the party people of bristol came together and fundraised a grand for that very thing. does nobody remember the skips that were fully utilised, overflowing and removed!!!!!!!! the disorganisers bigged us up and we were so chuffed that it had clearly made a difference. so we were just starting to plan a bigger better fundraiser for this forthcoming dragon when we hear rumors that the dragons future is being debated over issues such as rubbish. it seems like some people just want to talk about problems not solutions. if some people dont want the dragon dont make it about litter. can not more people do what we did last year, the dragon belongs to everybody, therefor it is everybodies responsibilty to sort it out! so many people come from all over to the dragon; harness that energy and find the solutions. they will be there if you want to find them. if you're in england in feb then come party with us in bristol to raise some more cash, what do you want this year?? 2 grand??!! whatever it takes to clear up the rubbish, we do respect the planet.

[fc mcjake]

Originally posted by vanessadaaluz

Well I LIVE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE MADDNESS AND GUESS WOT I LOVE IT !!!!!!!!!!!! NO I DONT TAKE DRUGS OR DRINK AND GET WANKERED BUT AFTER SEEING THE SANITIZED EXCUSE FOR FESTIVALS IN ENGLAND LAST SUMMER I REALIZE HOW IMPORTANT THE DRAGON IS. FREEDOM IS VITAL ,SELF RESPOSIBILITY IS VITAL . THE HEART OF THE DRAGON IS HERE HELP US MAKE EVEN BETTER COME WITH YOUR CREATIVE SPIRIT YOU WILL BE WELCOME. STUFF THE OLD FARTS WHO DON,T WANT IT IF THEY PUT MORE ENERGY INTO POSITIVE VIBES THE WORLD WOULD BE A HAPPIER PLACE. SEE YOU IN MARCH XXXXXXXXXX

fucking nice one vanessa

[vanessadaaluz]

ok can we make one thing clear charice who has been writing all this negitive shit is a new comer to the area and moved here way after the dragon started along with many folk who have problem with the festi. sorry guys but we all have the freedom to move and make desision about where we live, and lets face it there are so many more wonderful positive people around here that it really doesn,t matter that a few are so down on life. We must carry on revelling in our freedom here, celebrating life and living , Anyone who missed the beautiful greenfield, lux area and other lush things goin on was obviously to drunk to notice the great vibe or had dissaperred so far thier own arse they missed the point oh and the skips. big cheer to the bristol crew lets keep the dragon alive thanks for all your positive vibes . big love vanessa xxxxxxxxx

[vanessadaaluz]

BOO HOO name calling and outraged ,nice sensibilities. I live at ciggy and have done for 6 years, each year I clear up the rubbish, to me it is worth it to see a celebration of independance and continuation of a free festival scene I have been part of for 25 years.

The whole situation is complicated, but b4 you whine on about individual liberty ,take a look at the freedom you have compared to so many others, surely we should be taking advantage of our ability to celebrate life ,not dividing into petty factions.

Nothing is perfect but i would rather try and improve things than just give up and cry ,not on my doorstep.

Remember we are talking about very few people against the dragon, compared to how many people who are inspired,changed and shown different ways to be, we bravely embrace the dragon.Sure it,s hard work but thousands of people work just as hard getting here.
Cheers to everone who comes.

You ARE the festival, see you next year!

MARKA.

[crs1138]

Originally posted by vanessadaaluz

ok can we make one thing clear charice who has been writing all this negitive shit is a new comer to the area and moved here way after the dragon started along with many folk who have problem with the festi. sorry guys but we all have the freedom to move and make desision about where we live, and lets face it there are so many more wonderful positive people around here that it really doesn,t matter that a few are so down on life. We must carry on revelling in our freedom here, celebrating life and living , Anyone who missed the beautiful greenfield, lux area and other lush things goin on was obviously to drunk to notice the great vibe or had dissaperred so far thier own arse they missed the point oh and the skips. big cheer to the bristol crew lets keep the dragon alive thanks for all your positive vibes . big love vanessa xxxxxxxxx

I might be a newcomer to you Vanessa, you are a newcomer to the Spanish...anyway I have been in the area long enough to see the dragon hypocrisy through. Sad enough you can't see it yourself after so many years.

And the skips...actually it was me and Jacquie who collected the money (asking every moneymaking venture for contribution) to pay for skips and I handed them to Alex, when it came to it... Bristol crew payed for fencing etc, which was needed before the festival...if anyone wants to know, I have no problem with publishing the bills, I have a clear conscience.

SU27FLANKER>exactly

[kabeja61]

Originally posted by cloudofunknow

Will it? Won't it?

This is the debate:

There are, it appears, around 10 people who live in Los Cigarrones near to the festival that don't want the festival to happen in 2009. They say (they can correct me if I'm wrong) that it's an environmental disaster, they say its a health risk, they say its noisy.

They do not want the Dragon Festival to go ahead in 2009. They don't realise that people will turn up anyway - they have for 11 years.

There are also another 10 people who live in and around Los Cigarrones near to the festival who definitely do want the festival to happen. They think that with a bit of co-operation and and some donations, the site and thus the festival could be made safe and go ahead.

This is the place for the views from the don't's and the do's.

So should the 10 or so people stop the festival for the thousands who attend ? I doubt if that will happen. Why not go and take a break at the costa for a week or so.

As for an enviromental disaster ! Que ? Ciggarones is a riverbed which has been systematically stripped for many years by the Falange quarry people, that to me is more of an enviromental issue. Maybe the 10 [as opposed to the Cantenera 4] should do something about that.

In what respect is it a health risk ? Whenever or where ever you have a gathering of thousands of people there is a health risk, minimising the risk is the answer.

Noisy ! noisy ! Of course it's noisy, it's a festival.

I agree with the residents who live there who want it to happen that with cooperation and donations the site and festival can be safe. The 2008 Drag on was a lot better organised by the dis organisers who managed to stop most vehicles going through the site simply by requesting drivers to park on the Tablones side of site, virtually every driver saw the sense in this and did so. The skips were brilliant and well used. The shit pits are not ideal but again were well utilised by the vast majority of people and the fliers handed out about shitting certainly seemed to have an effect. More education about shitting in the campo would be useful.

I'm a do person.

[kabeja61]

Originally posted by mushroom

I would like the festival to go ahead, but tbh I think there's too many hardcore bleedin' techno sound systems, usually 24/7 which you can hear clearly in the nearest village (Los Tablones), and too much of that heavy English brew crew element to it as well. This is probably not what the people at Los Cigaronnes intended it to be, but if these sound systems turn up then who can stop them? Problem with the free festival...:/

I've been twice and think the people at cigaronnes are lovely, they looked after us well but industrial harcore thrash at full volume all bloody night even before the festival's started is not my idea of a free festival, freedom is also about respect for others, otherwise freedom becomes tyranny.

While the industrial hardcore thrashy systems are not my cup of tea either the music has been changing over the last few years with a lot more live music and performance thanks to the likes of The Green Field, Aqua Libre, Lux etc. and i've had no problem getting out of earshot of the techno shit. The best for me last year was a couple of hours non stop dancing at the Aqua Libre set up to a brilliant set of punk, ska and reggaey set.
The Drugon is developing and is very much alive and getting more diverse. If it had been taken over by the huge rigs of a few years back it would be dead by now.

[kabeja61]

Originally posted by welly

After 10 years I'm sure lots of people have changed and their ideas of a good night have changed, so it is inevitable that what they see as a good festival will change. However for some maybe lots this will be their fisrt experience of a propper free festival so for them the joy of 24 hour noise pollution for 4 or 5 days is pure heaven. The vibe has always been about just doing it with people /rigs turning up and what will be will be. There has also been ego's over sizes of rigs and unheard pleas for people to limit it to 10k. We all know how given the chance for a moment of freedom we always, always want to push it and turn things up.

I'll be going and I know others who will be going, lots of people will share the view that the land/ space doesn't belong to anyone so it should and will happen.

All the above has nothing to do with the environmental impact. It is the responsibiility of everyone who attends any party to clean up their rubbish. Parties are diy events and the same goes for rubbish we create. Cleaning up is a minimum, in many ways we should leave places cleaner than when we arrived. If people took responsibility for their actions then we would have a stronger force behind our arguement and people might be able to party more in the uk rather than traveling to spain.

The only valid reason for not having the Dragon festival is because it encourages people to fly!

While i think your post is somewhat niaeve i do think the skips at 2008 made a massive difference and showed me that if people had access to them they would generally use them, it was the same with the can and bottle banks which were full. The Diss Organisers have taken this onboard and again the festival has evolved forward positively. In my experience if people are given the facilities to dispose of their rubbish they will use them.

[kabeja61]

Originally posted by aguadulce

I don't understand it, hehe.

Dragon Festival is really something unique in spain. From my point of view the only reason for not doing it is that it distubes some people. I really regret doing things that mean to molest others.
It would be lovely to be able to make people who don't like the dragon to happen(I guess the people who live permanently around Orgiva, and they're totally in their right) realize what the dragon means; in that direction I would like to help and do something.

Big regards to all!

You could help next year if it goes ahead by doing a few hours stewarding or rubbish picking.
Also the many, many people who live permantly around Orgiva who understand and enjoy the festival are totally in their rights to enjoy it.

I think i'm right to say the vast majority of people who attend the festival are Spanish and don't fly.

[kabeja61]

I'm not sure what happened above !
It was like a Dragon moment

[kabeja61]

Originally posted by troopdeloop

its all the usual suspects as far as what is needed to make the party happen eg:

*some fundraising to pay for infrastructure (bins & rubbush collection, Toilet facillities, first aid & welfare, etc etc)

*awareness raising; letting people know that its posssible to be involved, advice about taking care of your own litter/shite/parking/general safety on site

*volunteers to prepare the festival site beforehand, building spaces, constructing loos, decorating, flags, bins etc

*volunteers to help with stewarding (traffic control!!!), first-aiders, welfare etc DURING the party

*volunteers to litter-pick, dismantle spaces, take down decor/flags etc

......

The way forward.

[kabeja61]

Originally posted by General Lighting

I don't think as a person in England I even have the right to decide whether a festival happens in another nation. It is the decision of the people what live locally who are most closely affected by it.

I also am a bit concerned about the motives of some people from my country. To put it bluntly, they only attend or contribute to festivals in foreign nations because they have fucked things up in England by not looking after environment/overdoing the noise and drugs, and the Police in England have become harsher about stopping outdoor events.

some fund their travels by selling addictive drugs like ketamine, for higher prices than they would to English people. These same people, when Spanish people come to London to squat or have parties, say "oh, too many foreigners".

they simply take advantage of less strong laws in European countries to party, then they fuck off and leave the "natives" to clear up.

of course there are UK crews and people what genuinely love Europe and positive multiculturalism and attend Euro-fests for the right reason, but there are too many hangers-on what latch on to the good people and turn good things bad.

perhaps the local crews should either take a break, or definitely make sure they do the things troopdeloop says, to have dialogue with the locals and ensure the promises are fulfilled, otherwise the festival will get locked down like lots of other countries.

General,

Most of the people who attend the festival are Spanish who don't need any help or advice in obtaining "addictive drugs" from their own country.

The English "crews" who come over come to have a good time and enjoy, over the years the problems from non residents have been negligble.

Now if you were talking about the French technos........

[kabeja61]

Originally posted by crs1138

There are some basic lies on the web.
1] Dragon festival is the only Free festival in Europe. It is a lie, there are many other free festivals. I can name polish, slovak, bulgarian and romanian,... Here in Spain are other free festivals too, to name just one for all The Ethnosur in Alcala Real.

2] Dragon festival is in abandoned quarry. No it is not abandoned, I live here all year long (not like you Lisa - Dragon webdesigner, living most of the year in UK)

3] Dragon festival is FREE, no it is not, because one person's freedom has its borders where it is violating freedom of others. In this case 10ooo people decide to come and shit in my garden every year. This is serious violating of my freedom.

I am not against the festival. I work as VJ on many parties and festivals all over Europe. I am just saying it is in wrong place for the form it has taken in last years.

1/ I don't care if it is or is not the only free festival in Europe it is my local freebie which i love.

2/ You are right the quarry is not abandoned, it is very much a working quarry which is systematically stripping the riverbed and it's surroundings. If you are concerned about the enviroment do something about that instead of having a personal pop at an individual and naming them on the net !

3/It is free in more ways than you would ever understand. Are you really and honestly saying that 10000 people shit in your garden every year ? I think you are exaggerating. Why not help the disorganisers organise better crapping facilities, it's in your interests not to have 25000 craps to clean up from your garden. One crap in your gaff is to many and people involved in the festival are addressing this.

Your last comment gives away where you are coming from.
While you are happy to attend and participate in festivals/parties all over Europe and impact on the local peoples lives, when it comes to your space it's not in my back yard. Or at least not in your garden.

[kabeja61]

Originally posted by General Lighting

Is anyone here bothering to listen to what this man has to say?

he is actually being kind enough to engage in a constructive dialogue with all the European ravers who have turned or are planing to turn up on his doorstep - he doesn't even need to do this, he could in fact just talk to the council and coppers and ask for the event to be closed down.

People are listening and attempting to enter into dialogue with this person and the peeps have been turning up on "their doorstep" longer than they have been living there. Some people have talked to the council and coppers in various attempts to stop it for 11 years with the result that they have not succeeded. The Dragon lives.

[DIONYSUS]

Originally posted by kabeja61

People are listening and attempting to enter into dialogue with this person and the peeps have been turning up on "their doorstep" longer than they have been living there. Some people have talked to the council and coppers in various attempts to stop it for 11 years with the result that they have not succeeded. The Dragon lives.

sounds like the people that move near to a church then complain about the bell ringing on a sunday morning! :

[kabeja61]

Originally posted by crs1138

Hey Claus, I remember those days and you (I helped you find out about patent registering for your bouncy shoes.), but you are talking about totally diferent festival and diferent vibe. The festival had not more than 2000 people.

Dragon is not free anymore. I am sorry.

Of course the Dragon is not the same, it has evolved because it is alive and not stagnant. I disagree with your negative interpretation as to how it has developed. I think it has grown positively and can continue to do so.

You seem to not understand what Claus said, he was saying if people no longer like the festival to "move their arses" away. Fair comment Claus.

[kabeja61]

Originally posted by aguadulce

Ok then.., why don't we move?, what about Tabernas Desert(Almeria), or Monegros Desert(Huesca), and make Dragon be a little bit like BurningMan(in the meaning of leaving no trace of festival after the event).

I'm not a hippy type person who goes on about vibes and energies but simply a person who enjoys life and living with my fellow human beings. If i were a new age sort i would use the opinion that the festival should stay at ciggy with all the positive vibes and energies to dispell the negative ones that are there from the days when Franco and his cohorts used Ciggarones as a detention and torture centre. Why do you think so few local Spanish people live in Ciggy or why it was an abandonded village before the Giri's bought places there ? The place never had a very nice history.

Let's redress the negativeness with positiveness man.

Peace, love and party.

[SU27FLANKER]

Re mess, crap, skips, etc. All well and good in DAYLIGHT for the conscientious and sober few who used them, happily I am sure, but read my first post. The real action takes place in the dark on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday nights. The influx of people, many of them Spanish (The Dragon is part of the Movida) is HUGE, and in the DARK, hammered NO ONE is interested in using skips or toilets. I am not going to repeat myself, my first post says it all.

[DIONYSUS]

Originally posted by SU27FLANKER

NO ONE</b> is interested in using skips or toilets. I am not going to repeat myself, my first post says it all.

ive not been to the dragon, but this has got to be a huge generalisation. To say that everyone there is shitting and pissing where they stand and throwing rubbish wherever as soon as it gets dark sounds a bit over the top. I know what you mean, from freeparties in england and maybe a few think fuck it, but not everyone.

[SU27FLANKER]

Go to the Dragon and see for your self, go at night and you will see that my description (1st post) is the sober truth. It is incredible the numbers that arrive after dark. The whole thing is incredible. Remember that I have lived here and seen every Dragon from the beginning until now. If an event like this was perpetrated anywhere on mainland Britain we would have all been shot through the lungs by armed police and the organizers would be twitching on metal tables with electrodes attached to every sensitive body part by now. The Dragon is an outrage in every sense. No amount of vibes, fund raising, or skips will change this reality. To solve the the many problems that the festival has will kill the Festival as it is, UNLESS some accessible but otherwise bomb proof site can be found, and we all pile onto that. Soon the authorities will intervene and it will all end in tears.

Remember that anarchy is great fun while all goes well, but when it goes sour the results can be tragic. We have not yet had a wind driven bush fire but we could. We have not yet had a flash flood but we could, so far there has been no riot but it is possible. We have had at least four deaths, it is amazing that there have not been more. As the site stands there would be no chance of emergency vehicles reaching any one in the event of fire or flood ( yes we do get wild fires and flash floods, I have seen the river bed full from bank to bank, very very scary).

You really do need to be there on a Friday night to get any idea of what happens. I just wish that the out side world had never found out about our little local fiesta. It used to be great, and no controversy at all. The best thing would be a huge Dragon like festival somewhere safe for the hoards and the Movida, and our little local bash just for us locals (oo arrr) Go well F

[vanessadaaluz]

oh for goodness sake will shut up about flooding and fires god may strike us down for our evilness!!!!! If we want advice about out personal safety we'll ask!

all this pants about moving the feasti just shows me you don,t get it... it is our celebration of this incredible free place we live in, the spirit of ciggy in all it,s diverse ways. please can we get positive or just go make a festi some where else ,where i presume no one will mind the mess and floods!

and leave us alone to get on with it... really looking forward to it were planning a fab kids space and crufts dog show come join the fun love ness

[SU27FLANKER]

QUOTE "oh for goodness sake will shut up about flooding and fires god may strike us down for our evilness!!!!! If we want advice about out personal safety we,ll ask!!!!"

Woah, sooo touchy. Who said that a natural, real, and undoubtedly small risk (fire, flood) was a judgment on any one ???!! where? No it is just a possibility. A medical emergency on the far side of the fezzy is a more likely, and a more scary possibility. Who will get the blame from the authorities ? The swarm of outsiders who actually block every thing up, or us?

What YOU do not seem to get is the distinction between us huevos who know the ways n hows of Ciggy et al and do indeed create a wonderful vibe when we party (or do anything, we are, as you say, very creative people ) and the hords who arrrive by night and do not give a flying fuck about us or how or where we live.

Two different rule sets. You and your crufts and kid zones are fine examples of what made OUR Dragon so fine all those years ago (nostalgic music please), and my first post illustrates the reality of the night Dragon of today, and it is todays beast that causes all the trouble. Not you. Not your kids or crufts. Not what you do. So do not accuse me of making judgments on YOUR personal safety. I am not. I am talking about EVERYONE'S personal safety. THAT is freedom. So get of your high horsey I am not criticizing you, or positive, creative people anywhere, ohkay?

Go well , F

[crs1138]

Originally posted by kabeja61

Your last comment gives away where you are coming from.
While you are happy to attend and participate in festivals/parties all over Europe and impact on the local peoples lives, when it comes to your space it's not in my back yard. Or at least not in your garden.

Actually the festivals and parties in Europe I participate in, deal with their shit, they do not disturb other people who live around and they do not leave shit in anyone's garden, they are not dangerous (only one way in/out) etc.... If the Dragon would be up to these standards I would happily supported too. But that is not the case of Dragon, so I say move it to area without residents... Cigarrones is not the right place for it. That's all.

[fc mcjake]

Has anyone on site actually planned to have a sensible face to face discussion about the dragon, or are we just going to keep posting our arguments on the world wide web.