Brighton - Schoolgirl 14 dies taking dangerous new drug

[Buzz]

Originally posted by CozMik

not strictly true...

infact I think it will only take a few more pushes untill the goverment decides to try legalising weed, even if its only for a probationary peroid

chin up, old boy!

It only recently got put up to a class B....

il believe it when i see it.

[p0ly]

if u love weed so much just learn dutch and move to NL

[p0ly]

ik hou van je

[MisterDuck]

Originally posted by Buzz

You can ask me to look how far we've come in the past 100 years, but how far HAVE we really come?

1. abolition of slavery
2. civil rights movement
3. womens vote
4. national health service
5. free education for all
6. abolition of the death penalty
7. benefits system
8. eveything that goes with the welfare state! be that youth provisions, community provisions or the others mentioned
9. accesible running water
10. social mobility
11. accountability for those in power (yes i know this is not great, but it is a lot better than it was)
12. free speech (same as above)
13. human rights (and again)

no they are not all perfect, but progression in the past 100 years has been huge
i'd love it if you had a tardis, could go back to victorian britain, and pre-victiorian, and say we haven't progressed

Whether its drugs, terrorism or world hunger. At the end of the day, most people have "better" stuff to worry about....and UNTIL people DO start addressing the real issues in society

it takes a civilised few to change the opinions of many. and it happens. and has happened, the above proves that. from workhouses and no vote to free healthcare and free education. i'm not saying it's perfect, but progression is gradual.

stop being such a pessimistic negative person, start appreciating what has happened and push for more progression, because a lot of people do in their own way, don't discredit that.

It only recently got put up to a class B....

il believe it when i see it.

the question is, what are you going to do to make it happen?

[p0ly]

but duck, we don't even have sharks with fricken lazer beams attached to their heads!!

[Buzz]

Originally posted by MisterDuck

1. abolition of slavery
2. civil rights movement
3. womens vote
4. national health service
5. free education for all
6. abolition of the death penalty
7. benefits system
8. eveything that goes with the welfare state! be that youth provisions, community provisions or the others mentioned
9. accesible running water
10. social mobility
11. accountability for those in power (yes i know this is not great, but it is a lot better than it was)
12. free speech (same as above)
13. human rights (and again)

no they are not all perfect, but progression in the past 100 years has been huge
i'd love it if you had a tardis, could go back to victorian britain, and pre-victiorian, and say we haven't progressed

it takes a civilised few to change the opinions of many. and it happens. and has happened, the above proves that. from workhouses and no vote to free healthcare and free education. i'm not saying it's perfect, but progression is gradual.

stop being such a pessimistic negative person, start appreciating what has happened and push for more progression, because a lot of people do in their own way, don't discredit that.



the question is, what are you going to do to make it happen?

1. abolition of slavery - and yet we still have 3 year olds manufacturing nike trainers? albeit not in this country, we still import them
2. civil rights movement - its like the caste system in india, just because its illegal doesnt mean people dont get discriminated
3. womens vote - does our vote really make much difference anyway?
4. national health service
5. free education for all - but a lot fucking better education if your daddy has a good job right?
6. abolition of the death penalty - a tory government coming in and bnp now have seats in HoC, theres talk of a referendum, hell the public want it back.
7. benefits system - dont get me started on the welfare state.
8. eveything that goes with the welfare state! be that youth provisions, community provisions or the others mentioned - lets not even go there.
9. accesible running water
10. social mobility - to some extent....
11. accountability for those in power (yes i know this is not great, but it is a lot better than it was) - white collar/corporate crime, how often do they get more than a fine?
12. free speech (same as above) - haha, well....New bill may give president ability to shut down Internet | VentureBeat
^^ that being more about western society in general.
13. human rights (and again) - and yet they still get violated on a major scale around the globe while western society turns the other cheek. i.e china, zimbabwe and rwanda to name a few.

[1984]

Originally posted by Buzz

1. abolition of slavery - and yet we still have 3 year olds manufacturing nike trainers? albeit not in this country, we still import them
2. civil rights movement - its like the caste system in india, just because its illegal doesnt mean people dont get discriminated
3. womens vote - does our vote really make much difference anyway?
4. national health service
5. free education for all - but a lot fucking better education if your daddy has a good job right?
6. abolition of the death penalty - a tory government coming in and bnp now have seats in HoC, theres talk of a referendum, hell the public want it back.
7. benefits system - dont get me started on the welfare state.
8. eveything that goes with the welfare state! be that youth provisions, community provisions or the others mentioned - lets not even go there.
9. accesible running water
10. social mobility - to some extent....
11. accountability for those in power (yes i know this is not great, but it is a lot better than it was) - white collar/corporate crime, how often do they get more than a fine?
12. free speech (same as above) - haha, well....New bill may give president ability to shut down Internet | VentureBeat
^^ that being more about western society in general.
13. human rights (and again) - and yet they still get violated on a major scale around the globe while western society turns the other cheek. i.e china, zimbabwe and rwanda to name a few.

"Its getting better all the time" *dances*

[1984]

Originally posted by MisterDuck

1. abolition of slavery
2. civil rights movement
3. womens vote
4. national health service
5. free education for all
6. abolition of the death penalty
7. benefits system
8. eveything that goes with the welfare state! be that youth provisions, community provisions or the others mentioned
9. accesible running water
10. social mobility
11. accountability for those in power (yes i know this is not great, but it is a lot better than it was)
12. free speech (same as above)
13. human rights (and again)

no they are not all perfect, but progression in the past 100 years has been huge
i'd love it if you had a tardis, could go back to victorian britain, and pre-victiorian, and say we haven't progressed

it takes a civilised few to change the opinions of many. and it happens. and has happened, the above proves that. from workhouses and no vote to free healthcare and free education. i'm not saying it's perfect, but progression is gradual.

stop being such a pessimistic negative person, start appreciating what has happened and push for more progression, because a lot of people do in their own way, don't discredit that.



the question is, what are you going to do to make it happen?

I like you. *buys you a pint and a pie* you inspire me to not turn my back on politics.

[MisterDuck]

Originally posted by Buzz

1. abolition of slavery - and yet we still have 3 year olds manufacturing nike trainers? albeit not in this country, we still import them
2. civil rights movement - its like the caste system in india, just because its illegal doesnt mean people dont get discriminated
3. womens vote - does our vote really make much difference anyway?
4. national health service
5. free education for all - but a lot fucking better education if your daddy has a good job right?
6. abolition of the death penalty - a tory government coming in and bnp now have seats in HoC, theres talk of a referendum, hell the public want it back.
7. benefits system - dont get me started on the welfare state.
8. eveything that goes with the welfare state! be that youth provisions, community provisions or the others mentioned - lets not even go there.
9. accesible running water
10. social mobility - to some extent....
11. accountability for those in power (yes i know this is not great, but it is a lot better than it was) - white collar/corporate crime, how often do they get more than a fine?
12. free speech (same as above) - haha, well....New bill may give president ability to shut down Internet | VentureBeat
^^ that being more about western society in general.
13. human rights (and again) - and yet they still get violated on a major scale around the globe while western society turns the other cheek. i.e china, zimbabwe and rwanda to name a few.

i said not everything was perfect, and of course i agree we need to tackle the remaining problems like sweatshops etc. what do you think amnesty is all about

but you cannot deny that each and every one of those, especially in this country, has progressed so so much.

later i might come back and go through each point. i honestly am getting a bit frustrated - of course you make valid points about remaining problems (and some invalid tbh, i'd argue if private education was better overall and the tories wont bring back the death penalty) but you are discounting everything based on this! it's like saying "well we have free education, but my local school is underperforming" as though that makes it no difference to sticking kids in workhouses!

[Buzz]

Originally posted by MisterDuck

i said not everything was perfect, and of course i agree we need to tackle the remaining problems like sweatshops etc. what do you think amnesty is all about

but you cannot deny that each and every one of those, especially in this country, has progressed so so much.

later i might come back and go through each point. i honestly am getting a bit frustrated - of course you make valid points about remaining problems (and some invalid tbh, i'd argue if private education was better overall and the tories wont bring back the death penalty) but you are discounting everything based on this! it's like saying "well we have free education, but my local school is underperforming" as though that makes it no difference to sticking kids in workhouses!

I just mean that it sometimes seems as if we havent come very far at all, im honestly not as negative as i may seem at times. Its just that these things are important to me and at times i can get a little hotheaded. I DO know we have come a long way in 100 years but you cannot deny that in other aspects we've almost gone backwards. Someone cannot seriously say that its likely they will try to legalise cannabis soon when it has recently been put back up to a class b, and davit nutt has just been fired. Inspiring that kind of false hope is rediculous.

[MisterDuck]

Originally posted by Buzz

Someone cannot seriously say that its likely they will try to legalise cannabis soon when it has recently been put back up to a class b, and davit nutt has just been fired. Inspiring that kind of false hope is rediculous.

It depends what they mean by "soon". Within the next 100 years it is easily possible, if not probable. Remember, Europe are already decriminalising in certain countries, and the EU will become a closer unit the a centralised government in years to come.

Your statement of "never" was more ridiculous - which is what people picked up on. The idea that you can rule anything out from eternity is fairly absurd.

[Iacchus]

liberalism has to win, it's the natural progression of society

[joshd96320]

Originally posted by MisterDuck

don't be such a pessimist. there is no "never" about it. decriminalisation probably won't happen in our lifetime, but think how far we've come in the last 100 years alone.

or resign yourself to the negative aspects of society and carry on pointlessly blaming others whilst doing nothing about it yourself, it's your choice. progression doesnt happen through one-man revolutionaries you know.

unless ya name is Garibaldi :)

on a serious note, i find it a touch selfish to wish to earn something such as legalisation by yourself, or within your lifetime. i feel i could happily dedicate my life to a just cause even if i didnt live to see the blossom, i could lay to rest quite easily knowing that i had played a part in the evolution of society.

Originally posted by Buzz

In my opinion we havent come very far in the past 100 years, and its becoming so much easier for governments to influence the opinions of the public (and therefore the voters) through mass media. Just look at the news articles on things such as skunk, people now think that all weed will give you schizophrenia.

i feel that is more a problem lying with society / the people themselves, allowing themselves to be submissive to the media.

Originally posted by Buzz

1. abolition of slavery - and yet we still have 3 year olds manufacturing nike trainers? albeit not in this country, we still import themprogress has still been made, and anyway, this is not a choice of the british government - it is filthy businessmen. but, the one positive i can see from this is at least they are in SOME form of employment - however cruel it is. they are still making a small contribution to their family.
2. civil rights movement - its like the caste system in india, just because its illegal doesnt mean people dont get discriminatedit is still progress, 100 years is not a long time. humanity faffed around for over 2000 years in pretty much the same state of the average persons human rights. though in 100 years we have began to make a tangible amount of progress.
3. womens vote - does our vote really make much difference anyway?if the majority of people truly believed strongly in a cause, and for example the government enforced something that contradicted this view, there would be mass uproar and the country would be descended into a state of anarchy - i havent seen this happen yet
4. national health service
5. free education for all - but a lot fucking better education if your daddy has a good job right?i would argue that private education is not good. they do not teach you skills, they teach you to pass exam papers, thus the high grades they get. public schools are also a social haven. if i had the choice, i would definitely choose public education. and i pretty much did have the choice.
6. abolition of the death penalty - a tory government coming in and bnp now have seats in HoC, theres talk of a referendum, hell the public want it back.have a referendum to see what people truly think
7. benefits system - dont get me started on the welfare state.
8. eveything that goes with the welfare state! be that youth provisions, community provisions or the others mentioned - lets not even go there.
9. accesible running water
10. social mobility - to some extent....large progress has been made
11. accountability for those in power (yes i know this is not great, but it is a lot better than it was) - white collar/corporate crime, how often do they get more than a fine?
12. free speech (same as above) - haha, well....New bill may give president ability to shut down Internet | VentureBeat
^^ that being more about western society in general.
13. human rights (and again) - and yet they still get violated on a major scale around the globe while western society turns the other cheek. i.e china, zimbabwe and rwanda to name a few.

[General Lighting]

Originally posted by MisterDuck

It depends what they mean by "soon". Within the next 100 years it is easily possible, if not probable. Remember, Europe are already decriminalising in certain countries, and the EU will become a closer unit the a centralised government in years to come.

Your statement of "never" was more ridiculous - which is what people picked up on. The idea that you can rule anything out from eternity is fairly absurd.

I think decrimininalisation / legalisation may be possible eventually but there are a number of major hurdles. I do think in the UK chances have been missed and its not all rosy across the North Sea either..

Firstly the entire UN or at least a chunk of it needs to agree not just that prohibition is a failure but that it is no longer widely held to be morally wrong to take recreational drugs. If some blocks of countries go it alone they might be subjected to economic or even military sanctions by others who disagree with their actions.

Even many liberals are only going as far as saying that drug use is a medical problem rather than a criminal issue. This then flags up the issue that many developed nations such as the UK and Europe have free at source public health systems, and that drug users (including currently legal drugs such as alcohol and tobacco) create an extra burden on these.

in Britain, we would need to change our lifestyles and not binge on everything so much. Drugs decriminalisation works in Portgual but only because its a poorer but hardworking population, who also have stronger community and family and faith group links than some other nations.

Its not a complete tolerance or widespread acceptance of drug use either, a few years ago a young girl on here from PT mentioned how she couldn't take drugs because her parents made a condition with her that they would only pay for her uni (which she wanted to do) if she consented to urine tests(!) and it seemed directly related to drugs being decriminalised.

Those what disagree with drug use won't simply accept change even if it came from above, in the same way tolerant people currently protest against some government policies..

There are murmurs from NL that even liberals are falling slightly out of favour with the "soft" approach on drugs there, in SE definitely and possibly DK as well they went from tolerance to hardline views on drugs after public healthcare service professionals as well as the criminal justice system expressed their concerns.

Something similar is happening in the UK recently, also the healthcare and justice systems work closer now - Talk to Frank for instance is run by both the NHS and Home Office. There are also other elephants in the room such as the environment and depletion of natural resources, and the hard work required from people to deal with this sits ill with the perception (even amongst otherwise progressive folk) of drug users (especially young starters) as feckless hedonists...

I think legalisation might one day happen but its not a current world priority and any attempt to push things too far could well be met with further and co-ordinated resistance from those with real power over society. Not even a tinfoil hat conspiracy type scenario, just a reminder of what is classed as more important in the world at this time.

[p0ly]

Buzz just wanted to avoid writing his essay so he just went abit too far arguing!!

and josh's point about slaves having a job is true